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Red Stains on Clothing ?
squadman wrote:
timdowning wrote:
Its a sticky wicket which I reckon we might have to accept !Well if I were faced with a potential claim of £600 for 10 shirts I would try to defend my corner. Determined to prove my involvement in the bearing change had nothing whatsoever to do with the damage inflicted on those shirts.
I would suggest to my customer that the shirts be examined closely by a third party, preferably by the manufacturer of the detergent brand used. So that a full unbiased conclusion be reached as to the likely source of pollutant.
Having said that, I have to agree you have put yourself in a difficult position simply by doing the repair in your workshop. Possibly even stating to your customer on it’s return that “the machine has been thoroughly cleaned?” had that same repair been done in the customers own home you could put the onus on them by advising the machine do several ‘services washes’ first before using the machine.
Re: Red Stains on Clothing ?
Personally, following your current procedures, I wouldn’t be ready to just accept, or in the alternative deny, anything without firstly accepting the machine itself back into the workshop for stripdown and re-inspection.
It May come to that depending on the outcome tomorrow,
The cause could be anything, even down to someone leaving something in a shirt pocket (I know that is unlikely, but it does happen). If the staining is on the shirts it will also be on the inner of the outer drum..
This is true also,
1. Did she do a cleaning wash on re-installation of the washer?
A) We do not leave it to clients to do a cleaning wash, whenever we do a job like this the machines are run through a number of full wash cycles with a load, the reason to avoid these exact circumstances !
2. That is very prominant staining even if you failed to fully seal the bearing… This does look like what you would get from a full failed (old) bearing.
A)Thats what I thought too !
3. The marks are black. Bearing grease inside a NEW bearing is clear is it not?
A) Agreed !
4. Is the same type/shape of staining on all ten shirts? If so then how
A) yes its pretty consistent on all of them
5. Is there a capability of something entering the washer from the drain-end?
A) No, its a standpipe with a trap and the drain hose shows no sign of anything black
There are plenty of questions like this that you should be investigating before just giving-up.
George
Re: Red Stains on Clothing ?
Martin wrote:
squadman wrote:
Its a sticky wicket which I reckon we might have to accept !Well if I were faced with a potential claim of £600 for 10 shirts I would try to defend my corner. Determined to prove my involvement in the bearing change had nothing whatsoever to do with the damage inflicted on those shirts.
A) Martin I am not just giving up, but we need to run a further wash to see the outcome, if this second load is damaged then we need to strip the machine back down and see what evidence there might be internally that would cause this.
I would suggest to my customer that the shirts be examined closely by a third party, preferably by the manufacturer of the detergent brand used. So that a full unbiased conclusion be reached as to the likely source of pollutant.
A) I have already suggested this to the customer when I called, they were somewhat annoyed that I wanted to even suggest this but I pointed out that under the circumstances a third party would be the best way forward and I am still of that mind !!
Having said that, I have to agree you have put yourself in a difficult position simply by doing the repair in your workshop. Possibly even stating to your customer on it’s return that “the machine has been thoroughly cleaned?” had that same repair been done in the customers own home you could put the onus on them by advising the machine do several ‘services washes’ first before using the machine.
A) We do a lot of bearing changes at our workshop where a tub has to be removed from the appliance, there is nothing unusual about this practice and we have never had a situation like this before. By advising the customer that the machine had been run through multiple service cleaning washes before re-installation this shows from the outset that we are not only thorough in our work but also that we want the the customer to be able to use their machine from the off. Had we have done this work in the clients home and this had still occurred and not withstanding that we would have suggested that THEY run a cleaning cycle, if then they had had this problem they would still be at our door to attach blame.
The crux here, is that the customer is saying that the marks are exactly the same as they were BEFORE the machine was repaired and that the customer is claiming either the work was not done correctly, or that the original problem of the staining issue has not been resolved. As Neither myself or the attending first engineer was able to examine the original clothing we have no way of truly determining if what the customer states is correct or not. I can only now go by what I can see, what I can take apart and check, If we take the machine back in and cannot find any evidence of New Marks inside the machine such as oil. Grease or Rubber or Ink whatever then logic will dictate that the marks on the clothing were from a previous time that time being before the repair work or that something came via the water supply to cause this problem which is now gone, its a difficult one this.
However my Gut feeling is that this customer is honest and we have worked from them many times previously which is an advantage and proves they have been happy to entrust us to work on their appliances over time without complaint or fault. I always treat people as I would want to be treated myself and that has always served me well, I can normally spot a scallywag but the customers demeanor strikes me that they are being truthful but I need to prove the case one way or the other !
Re: Red Stains on Clothing ?
squadman wrote:The crux here, is that the customer is saying that the marks are exactly the same as they were BEFORE the machine was repaired and that the customer is claiming either the work was not done correctly, or that the original problem of the staining issue has not been resolved.
Your customer does have a clear point in that regard then.
squadman wrote:As Neither myself or the attending first engineer was able to examine the original clothing we have no way of truly determining if what the customer states is correct or not.
Notwithsatanding your customer’s remit was established on that point nevertheless.
squadman wrote:logic will dictate that the marks on the clothing were from a previous time that time being before the repair work or that something came via the water supply to cause this problem which is now gone, its a difficult one this.
Oh boy! Is it ever!
squadman wrote:However my Gut feeling is that this customer is honest and we have worked from them many times previously which is an advantage and proves they have been happy to entrust us to work on their appliances over time without complaint or fault.
From my experience many long standing customers do tend to take you for granted, expect you to drop what you’re doing and serve them to the nth degree yet again. And when something goes wrong, another fault occurs or another problem looms it gets ugly, they play heavily on your goodwill. Some can really be very forthcoming and persuasive and have it to a fine art.
squadman wrote:I always treat people as I would want to be treated myself
First rule of business ethics…well done!
squadman wrote:I can normally spot a scallywag but the customers demeanor strikes me that they are being truthful but I need to prove the case one way or the other !
Tough call in this case but, you know, I can’t help being somewhat suspicious about it all the same TBH. The thing that set alarm bells ringing for me was the 10 shirts @ £60 each thing?…………….
….Now who can afford to buy shirts at £60 a pop?
….Who would possibly be daft enough to wash £60 shirts in a washing machine and not take them to the dry cleaners or have the dry cleaners regularly collecting them from their gaf anyway?
….If you can afford spending 600 quid on shirts then why the hell can’t you afford to dump the old ‘staining’ machine and buy a new one?I think you are being taken to the cleaners my friend…..Do ensure you give them the name and address of your customer as I think they too can be added to their “long standing customer” list. 😈
Re: Red Stains on Clothing ?
Martin wrote:
squadman wrote:
The crux here, is that the customer is saying that the marks are exactly the same as they were BEFORE the machine was repaired and that the customer is claiming either the work was not done correctly, or that the original problem of the staining issue has not been resolved.Your customer does have a clear point in that regard then.
A) Thats my understanding of it Martin, should the customer make a case out of this not that I am intending letting it take that route, any adjudicator would look at the matter and see that the original fault was logged as Machine Noisey and Staining clothing. Machine then repaired Machine now not Noisey but staining issue still in evidence. You could argue the toss over the nature of these stains but I am sure it would go against us in this respect.
squadman wrote:As Neither myself or the attending first engineer was able to examine the original clothing we have no way of truly determining if what the customer states is correct or not.
Notwithsatanding your customer’s remit was established on that point nevertheless.
A) Yes of course,
squadman wrote:logic will dictate that the marks on the clothing were from a previous time that time being before the repair work or that something came via the water supply to cause this problem which is now gone, its a difficult one this.
Oh boy! Is it ever!
squadman wrote:However my Gut feeling is that this customer is honest and we have worked from them many times previously which is an advantage and proves they have been happy to entrust us to work on their appliances over time without complaint or fault.
From my experience many long standing customers do tend to take you for granted, expect you to drop what you’re doing and serve them to the nth degree yet again. And when something goes wrong, another fault occurs or another problem looms it gets ugly, they play heavily on your goodwill. Some can really be very forthcoming and persuasive and have it to a fine art.
A) Agreed but thats the kind of business we are in Martin 🙂
squadman wrote:I always treat people as I would want to be treated myself
First rule of business ethics…well done!
squadman wrote:I can normally spot a scallywag but the customers demeanor strikes me that they are being truthful but I need to prove the case one way or the other !
Tough call in this case but, you know, I can’t help being somewhat suspicious about it all the same TBH. The thing that set alarm bells ringing for me was the 10 shirts @ £60 each thing?…………….
A) To be a little more exact on this point, the customer did not quote 10 shirts @ £60, they merely mentioned that the damaged wash was made up of mainly shirts and that the shirts were not cheap shirts and that some of the shirts had cost £ 60.00, as yet no mention of a claim has been made but I would be most surprised if that did not come although at this juncture I will not be offering any compensation.
….Now who can afford to buy shirts at £60 a pop?
….Who would possibly be daft enough to wash £60 shirts in a washing machine and not take them to the dry cleaners or have the dry cleaners regularly collecting them from their gaf anyway?
….If you can afford spending 600 quid on shirts then why the hell can’t you afford to dump the old ‘staining’ machine and buy a new one?A) those are worthwhile points, these customers are fairly well healed and the types of shop they shop in I know that shirts like these can cost £60 or £ 70 each, that really does not surprise me.
Obviously the customer did not go out and buy all these shirts at once but more likely over time. How they wash them is for them to decide. The customer wanted to keep this machine as they like it and I dare say they could easily afford to buy a new machine, as repairers we played a part in possibly selling them the idea to keep the machine in service as thats what we all try to do is it not ?I think you are being taken to the cleaners my friend…..Do ensure you give them the name and address of your customer as I think they too can be added to their “long standing customer” list. 😈
A) Sorry Martin give who the name of my customer ?
Re: Red Stains on Clothing ?
squadman wrote:A) Sorry Martin give who the name of my customer ?
A tongue in cheek, somewhat glib final comment from me Squady (apologies) but I meant giving your customer the name of a local dry cleaner so that the dry cleaner too may share that all important customer loyalty status. :clown:
Re: Red Stains on Clothing ?
Oh Right ! Sorry late night last night but it did have me wondering,
Cannot do anymore until tomorrow when we can pick this all up again and see where it takes us. If they do put a claim forward am I right in thinking that they will need to provide a detailed claim showing Purchase Price, Possibly any receipts ? and Insurance companies normally make a reduction taking into account age of an item and for ware ?Red Stains on Clothing ?
Out of interest did the customer call you because the bearings where noisy or because of the marks?
If you replaced the bearings because they had failed then that has resolved that problem. If there is still another problem that couldn’t be detected from the strip down then this needs to be investigated at the customers expense. It’s there machine with the problem. If the fault existed before you worked on it and still exists now, then you haven’t caused it, you are in the process of locating the fault, you have eliminated one possible cause.
If the customer feels you are the cause they need to prove that.Sent from Steves
iPhone using TapatalkRe: Red Stains on Clothing ?
Out of interest did the customer call you because the bearings where noisy or because of the marks?
If you replaced the bearings because they had failed then that has resolved that problem. If there is still another problem that couldn’t be detected from the strip down then this needs to be investigated at the customers expense. It’s there machine with the problem. If the fault existed before you worked on it and still exists now, then you haven’t caused it, you are in the process of locating the fault, you have eliminated one possible cause.
If the customer feels you are the cause they need to prove that.
Actually Steve, that is a very good point, the customer called us for two things. 1. The machine was noisy , 2. The machine was leaving marks on the clothing.Item 1 has been solved, Item 2 is still in progress, the contention is if these marks are or are not the same.
According to the attending engineer he seemed to think that the marks were due to the inner drum having dropped and the clothing rubbing on the door seal and in the process getting grey rubber marks on the wash load.
The customer says that the marks now evident ( which are different to what the attending engineer thought ) are the same as they was before the work.
Red Stains on Clothing ?
squadman wrote:If they do put a claim forward am I right in thinking that they will need to provide a detailed claim showing Purchase Price, Possibly any receipts ? and Insurance companies normally make a reduction taking into account age of an item and for ware ?
As a rule your PL insurer will deal directly with the claim and the detail of the claimants loss. You merely need to inform your insurer what the claim involves, when, where and what action you took.
Re: Red Stains on Clothing ?
Funny how all the shirts are £60 dont think i’ve ever bought one at that price, sounds like a chancer to me.
Re: Red Stains on Clothing ?
Paying £60 for a shirt round here is easy, whatever the price paid if a damage claim arrives we need to satisfy two things,
1. That we were responsible for the damage.
2. Proof of the value of the claim if provenThe fact that the customer claims wash loads were being marked in this way before we ever became involved, coupled with the fact that our own wash tests did not reveal any such problems, we need to establish how it is now that the machine is in its original location this problem is evident.
I have managed to borrow one of the effected shirts which was purchased at Next, also i forgot to mention that these shirts have a care label which shows a 40c wash temp, the customer states that as these are pure cotton they always wash these at either 60 or 90 c ? Apart from possible shrinkage i cannot see how marks would occur at higher temps
Re: Red Stains on Clothing ?
squadman wrote:
While dismantled, Tub Washed out, new bearings and seals fitted, however the tub still had an odour to it.
Any other thoughts on this ? 😕
I would question which programmes the customer habitually uses and type and quantity of detergent used as the tub should not smell.
Tub hoses could be breaking down and releasing the black stuff but I would think that would have been evident before the bearing change.I had a similar problem with laundry staining and asked the customer why she was putting a £500 wash load in a £200 Beko washing machine.
Customer now has an ISE machine and the Beko is washing horse riding kit at my daughters house.
Steve
Re: Red Stains on Clothing ?
squadman wrote:I have managed to borrow one of the effected shirts which was purchased at Next,
Next don’t sell 60 quid shirts, their top price is £40 (so that’ll keep the bill down). 😀
squadman wrote: also i forgot to mention that these shirts have a care label which shows a 40c wash temp, the customer states that as these are pure cotton they always wash these at either 60 or 90 c ?
Well you’ve got them on that one as you should never wash garments other than what is stated on the care label. All cottons shirts I’ve owned and have come across always, without exception, bear the 40 degree tub marking on their care labels.
squadman wrote:Apart from possible shrinkage i cannot see how marks would occur at higher temps
With cotton shirts you have to allow for some degree of shrinkage, even at 40 degrees. It’s always a good idea to wash a new shirt first before wearing to allow for this.
I’m still curious to know the make and model of this errant offender and whether the spigot was changed or not?
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