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Re: Indesit washing machine explodes
The sat nav customers have to agree terms and conditions for using the product, which implicitly states that users have to use their own judgement and watch the road etc. They have to accept that the sat nav cannot be held responsible. Every time mine updates I have to agree the same T&Cs. That’s why they’ll have been thrown out of court. It’s very different to washing machines but there are indeed lots of grey areas.
There is of course a limit to what they have to do but I don’t believe manufacturers can sell appliances which become dangerous when used in predictable ways which customers would not suspect is dangerous such as overloading. I would imagine the key point is, would a normal sensible person know that overloading a washing machine, or leaving objects in pockets would be likely to result in the glass door exploding? The answer is clearly no. If they did, and overloaded it still then fair enough, they have to accept responsibility. The key point has to be if people should realise what they are doing is dangerous or not.
Why did fridge manufacturers have to change their designs so that children could not get locked inside them after many children did so and suffocated? Why do they fit interlocks to washing machine doors? Why do building site owners have a legal duty to ensure they are left secure to prevent stupid kids going on and having accidents? Why are electricity sub stations in a safety cage? Surely a warning would suffice? Why do cooker manufacturers have lids which cut off the gas if the lid is put down whilst it’s on? There’s an endless list of examples where manufacturers have to design products that are safe in order to protect stupid people – especially when they are known to behave in certain ways.
Re: Indesit washing machine explodes
I hope to not to come across as arguing 🙂 I like a decent respectful debate. A lot of your points K are based on your knowledge that washing machines are now manufactured for a very short time period and light use. But as this knowledge is totally withheld from customers it’s inadmissible 🙂
If they were told at point of sale that an Indesit 1600 washing machine is not designed to wash 2 loads a day 7 days a week for 15 years then they could make informed purchasing decisions. But they aren’t told unless they buy from an independent dealer or engineer who cares. Therefore they assume it can, and get bitterly disappointed.
We both agree and have long bemoaned the fact that customers have only themselves to blame for most of the rubbish they buy because – er they buy it, and demand cheaper and cheaper. But to be fair, the public have become very used to prices of products being continuously driven down without losing half their lifespan, sometimes starting off very expensive and getting ridiculously cheap. Mobile phones, video recorders, HD TV’s and so on and so on. So they don’t know that the reason washing machines and other white goods have done the same is because they are now only made to last 5 or 6 years under only light use.
This information is completely withheld from them so it’s not really a fair point to say they should know better due to the many examples where prices are very cheap due to mass production, cheap overseas labour etc.
They just assume that manufacturer’s are competing heavily with each other, moving production to China, developing better production techniques and design etc which is resulting in lower prices – or equally plausibly believing that prices are not indeed “cheap” at all. Some of these washing machines with bells and whistles cost almost as much as a basic Miele and they aren’t well made at all.
I don’t think a manufacturer can legitimately respond to consumer demand for cheaper products by reducing their intended lifespan by more than half and not telling their customers, and then claim they “have” lasted a reasonable time because “they” decided that time is now only 4 or 5 years for a family of 4 or 5 when most people still expected they should last at least 10 years.
My argument is that lots of washing machines used to last 20 years or more, most, even under heavy family use lasted at least 10 – 15 years. Therefore, in the absence of any declaration from manufacturers or advice from sellers they are reasonable to expect this should not change, and the fact that many are now cheap should not oblige them to assume any different because many products become very cheap whilst still functioning well and lasting a reasonable time.
I also think manufacturers have a responsibility (probably even in law) to design safe products that remain safe even when abused in totally predictable ways.
No appliance manufacturer can be unaware that vast percentages of their customers do not read the instruction book. Therefore they are negligent if they produce an appliance which can be dangerous if warnings in the instruction book are not read and followed. If this were not the case, why do all washing machine manufacturers add extra cost to their products by adding a door interlock? Why not simply write in the instruction book “DO NOT OPEN DOOR WHEN IN USE?” They don’t because they know that is inadequate, and they have to protect customers (even stupid ones) from themselves.
Therefore I would argue that it’s inexcusable to produce a washing machine which can spontaneously explode door glass across a room and potentially harm a child, pet or adult and then blame the customer for overloading it or leaving coins in pockets. All washing machine manufacturers know a vast percentage of their customers overload washing machines and leave things in pockets. Therefore it’s incumbent on them to design with that knowledge in mind, and protect customers (even the stupid ones) from themselves.
I would argue that they have no obligation to prevent a door glass from breaking if overloaded or hit by coins (although they definitely should) but merely to prevent the machine becoming dangerous if misused in totally predictable ways. Therefore if a door glass just breaks, they might be able to get a job from it and say it broke because of misuse but if it breaks and becomes dangerous they are responsible in the same way they’d be responsible if they didn’t fit an interlock and someone lost an arm. I’m pretty sure in law they can’t blame the customer if they knew that many of their customer’s or their children “would” in fact open the door when it’s spinning and they also know that without any shadow of a doubt, millions of their customers “will” overload, and “will” leave objects in pockets.
Re: Indesit washing machine explodes
kwatt wrote:Satisfactory Quality
It isn’t that black and white I’m afraid Andy.
K.
I apreciate that K, but it says in the link that goods should –
Last for a reasonable length of time in a reasonable condition
The law doesn’t say exactly how long goods should last. The general rule is that goods should last for a reasonable time and in reasonable condition. For example, a new car should last for several years in a reasonable condition but you may need to replace some of its parts over time.
If goods don’t last as long as they should, they probably weren’t of satisfactory quality when you bought them.
So if the new car that should last for several years (albeit needing some repairs) should be scrap after 2 or 3 because the engine failed, or a part failed which is designed to be unrepairable you’d have a case.
Same with a washing machine if it doesn’t last a reasonable time. Reasonable being what a normal person with common sense would see as reasonable, not a seller or manufacturer – and to be fair not someone with hyped-up unfair expectations either. I would say most fair minded people would agree that a washer which is scrap after 3 years has not lasted a reasonable time unless they’ve seriously hammered it and/or it was ridiculously cheap.
Re: Indesit washing machine explodes
Satisfactory quality means it lasts a reasonable time, which may not become apparent for 2 or 3 years when it becomes beyond economical repair. The Sale of Goods Act specifically defines “reasonable” as what any normal person would consider reasonable and not what someone who sells them or manufactures them thinks.
Re: The 0800 Thread
I would have thought the internet has made work providers likely to be permanent. It’s never been easier for third parties to collect customers and pass them on. The only thing that could possibly stop them is if they can’t find any local engineers. That’s how it seems to me anyway.
Re: The 0800 Thread
funkyboogy wrote:it has been a bit quieter lately = more posts
dont like the song on radio turn it of .. dont like the posts dont read them.
ally
Flawed logic, you gotta read ’em before you know if you like ’em or not 😉
Re: washing machine speed
Thanks washuser, it isn’t that it isn’t allowed, it’s just that made it seem a bit like a promotion of a product disguised as a user query that’s all 🙂
Re: washing machine speed
Yeah maybe, I just wish they’d contacted me saying could you do an article about this app or what do you think about it instead.
Re: washing machine speed
Martin wrote:I have to ask of it all though Andy…..”Who gives a monkeys anyway?”
Only interested because he’s posted exact same thing on my forum and trying to work out if it’s something I should leave or remove. I’ve removed the links and youtube video because the exact same question and reply has been posted to at least 4 forums I know of and from people with IP’s in different countries, which could have legit explanation but it a little suspicious.
Re: washing machine speed
It also says it uses “strong use of iPhone triaxle accelerometer” Martin. I still find it hard to believe it works. I might have to download it, but unless I have already checked how fast my machine is spinning how can I know it is accurate and not just guessing from the noise 🙂
Re: washing machine speed
Muv wrote:Thought that YouTube video was a wind up, but duly did a search for it on the app store ..it’s there for 69p…
The question you’re all asking is “does it work though”?
Yes it does, and pretty accurately..
Martin
How can it work, and how can you know it’s working without checking the speed with a tachometer to see if it tallies? I can’t see how it’s possible for an iPhone to accurately detect speed from vibration, particularly as there are no vibration sensors in there are they? Surely only a tilt sensor?
Also the vibration on a Miele or ISE10 spinning at 1400 would be totally different to that of an Indesit?
Re: Zanussi door opens on spin – known fault?
Thanks TheSpinDoctor. I presume the plate is behind the shell, and not the plate that guides the door catch into the interlock. That would explain why a new interlock didn’t fix it and the engineer must have been puzzled.
Re: golocal reactive
Cheers Martin. Still weird that it gets a warning about phishing though. First I’ve ever seen.
Re: golocal reactive
I just tried to visit the site on the OP link and got this –
Reported Phishing Website Ahead!
Google Chrome has blocked access to http://www.golocalreactive.co.uk. This website has been reported as a phishing website.
Phishing websites are designed to trick you into disclosing your login, password or other sensitive information by disguising themselves as other websites you may trust
