[Lazarus]

1totalshambles wrote:Re: Siemens machine – bearings shot – recommendations please

“Martin is quite correct…and I’ve heard anecdotally that a number of the WQ machines have had this problem. At two years old the manufacturer is unlikely to quibble….”

And the Bosch and the Neff sister branded machines too bearing failure is common. I`m almost retired now so I don`t repair a lot of machines but my point is even I come across this ever increasingly so that surely makes things worse. I have also come across heater failure because the pcb relay sticks alowing the heater to come on full blast for 5 secs on spin just before its internal fuse goes pop. This supposed up market stuff is no longer reliable and the sooner the public and the trade stops trying to kid themselves the better. I seriously think folks would be far better off with a simple 6kg 1200 spin Logik for less than 200 quid e.g L612WM13. Why? Parts are fairly cheap, thousands of them sold because they are so reasonable and then they`re expendable when they go wrong big time, never been to one where the bearings have failed at 2 years old, 4 yes but not 2! Why does the trade not like these machines? There`s no money to be made on repairs that`s why or rather who`s going to lash out a typical 60 quid callout plus parts on a 170 quid machine that`s 5 years old, answer: only a very few people.

Please read my post before this on above for a update.

Question – if it’s a known fault on the WQ range – did they ever get around to doing a product revision – and sorting it. Or are any replacements likely to still have the same flaw?

[Lazarus]

don wrote:Just out of curiosity 😉 how many loads are you doing a week?

Don

One. On occasion two.

Work uniforms are dry-clean only and so their cleaning is covered by work.

[Lazarus]

1totalshambles wrote:Re: Siemens machine – bearings shot – recommendations please

“Martin is quite correct…and I’ve heard anecdotally that a number of the WQ machines have had this problem. At two years old the manufacturer is unlikely to quibble….”

And the Bosch and the Neff sister branded machines too bearing failure is common. I`m almost retired now so I don`t repair a lot of machines but my point is even I come across this ever increasingly so that surely makes things worse. I have also come across heater failure because the pcb relay sticks alowing the heater to come on full blast for 5 secs on spin just before its internal fuse goes pop. This supposed up market stuff is no longer reliable and the sooner the public and the trade stops trying to kid themselves the better. I seriously think folks would be far better off with a simple 6kg 1200 spin Logik for less than 200 quid e.g L612WM13. Why? Parts are fairly cheap, thousands of them sold because they are so reasonable and then they`re expendable when they go wrong big time, never been to one where the bearings have failed at 2 years old, 4 yes but not 2! Why does the trade not like these machines? There`s no money to be made on repairs that`s why or rather who`s going to lash out a typical 60 quid callout plus parts on a 170 quid machine that`s 5 years old, answer: only a very few people.

Thank you both for that insight.

I’ve called in to Siemens twice now.

First time – I was lucky to get a CS agent that was able to talk through the problems with & create a plan moving forward. Pretty straight forward & efficient.

She doubled checked all the details & and arranged an (in warranty) engineer visit. I sent in a nice thank you email to her team.

I called in for a second time yesterday – to double check the date & ask a couple of questions. This time, although polite & proper – the CS agent undermined key assurances their previous colleague had given. I found him a little ‘stand offish’ & it was very difficult call. I am know rethink what kwatt meant ‘about not having any hope of getting anywhere with siemens’.

At this point I have an (in warranty) engineer visit (if accurate) coming up on the 27th.

My concern is that – understandably, these visits are done under time pressure.

Whilst the pitch change over time, is clear to all five family members (because we have been in this scenario before) – I am concerned that the engineer might not be able to assess the change on a 5 min visit. The bearing has begun to degrade, the seal must have failed again – and fellow members are clear that this is is a known issue with these machines.

I’d appreciate any guidance about how to best move forward.

Lazarus

[Lazarus]

Hi all,

First of all – many thanks for the advice & guidance don, martin, kwatt, clivejameson, 1totalshambles & others.

I simply gave Siemens a call – the entire drum/tub assembly was replaced + heating element.

At the time of the replacement – the engineer was extremely rough with the side panels when accessing, removing & replacing the main assembly. He literally yanked them – almost to the point of bending them permanently. I remember him being in a very agitated mood when he arrived (complaining of having to cover other calls in addition to his own).

When he put the machine together – the ‘geometry’ of the machine was clearly ‘off’. The small rectangular panel that covers the Drain Pump Fluff Filter was no longer closing properly and did not fit flush. Water no longer travelled down the water channel specifically designed to avoid mess when draining and cleaning out the coin catcher – instead it leaks everywhere. The DPFF also requires considerable force to put back in.

Secondly – the sound of the spin cycle has changed – it is emitting the same early pitch change that occurred last time – which was eventually diagnosed as the bearing beginning to degrade. The pitch change is clear to hear – all members of the family have commented on it..

I am unsure what I should do now – the machine is still under warranty – but if I speak to Siemens honestly about what happened on the day the work was done – I’m not sure how they will take it.

I learned to live with the problems that were created that day – because it’s possible there was no other way to do the job. Yet I feel that I’m faced with a machine that’s already to breakdown again – and it won’t be due to anything we’ve done as users. Surely if as 1totalshambles says – it’s a known problem (bearing seal failure) on these WQ units – they should have sorted the design issue at the point of the replacement?

I’m directly asking fellow members for guidance and advice about how to proceed & what to do.

Warmest thanks to anyone will to contribute.

Lazarus.

[Lazarus]

Re: Samsung RS21NCSV – Advice Sought

UPDATE:

Since I asked mods to delete my initial post regarding this unit – I’d like to post an update regarding the engineer visit on Friday.

So the contractor attended the house – real Gent – top bloke. He opened up the rear of the fridge (near compressor). Even though we are very very ocd about cleanliness – once the cover was removed, the heat exchange was absolutely covered in dust
( must be at least 10 years of build up behind the cover).

He used a vacuum to clean as best he could – all the fluff and dust back there. He then pulled over the main board cover – disconnected it from the internal wiring – and added a module in-between the two.

Surprising – he glued the module on-top of some chips on the main board (double sided tape). He then put it all back together.

I am curious/concerned that he would glue this new ‘middleman’ module ontop of chips on the main board (I work with computers – such a thing might cause overheating issues of those chips – or cause static issues – if done on a computer mainboard – so I do not understand if this was actually done correctly).

So in summary – even if your F/F has had a ‘warranty’ fix already due to the initial recall issue – do not assume that Samsung will let you know that another has emerged.

They knew we had this Fridge – they did the first replacement – but did not warn us of the fire risk warranty replacement.

Chase this up yourselves – because Samsung cannot be trusted to do this for you.

Hope this helps some families out there.

L

[Lazarus]

Re: Samsung RS21 fridge issue

PandoraPeroxide wrote:Over the weekend stuff from the fridge side of my RS21 didn’t seem to be as cold as usual. I thought it may be because of outside temperature. Last night the fridge temp was reading 17 and was only cool at the bottom drawer. The freezer is fine. Took the back panel off and the silver grid thing was all frosted up. Defrosted this and reassembled and overnight it’s cooled and now says 1 again.

How long do you think it will stay cold for, guessing this means it’s kon the way out? I’m happy to live day to day food wise, luckily not much was in it to spoil, but it would be better if I have time to make a replacement decision and get a new one delivered. New Samsung ones seem way pricier than when I bought this!!!

Hi,

Like me you might be shocked to find that there are multiple (serious) design/manufacturing issues with theses fridges. Samsung extended the warranty on these units – to cover approximately 6 parts initially. The first ‘recall’ was to replace internal parts (fan grating sound – ice build up issue). For this problem there were multiple revisions/evolution of ‘the fix’ itself – sensors being relocated, foam surround being added to other sensors. People that had the parts/module replaced had inferior solutions – to those that got the updated kits later.

Much later – there was a separate ‘recall’ due to a sparking risk – which meant some Samsung fridges were at risk of being a fire hazard. Initially Samsung said it was limited to a select few models – under a specific production run. Yet again this was changed – and expanded to cover a huge number of units (in comparison). This fix – is in a completely different location on the fridge (mainboard) near the bottom – at the rear.

Let me be clear – even though our fridge was registered for the first ‘issue’ – Samsung DID NOT contact us to let us know there was another ‘recall’ due to a separate fire risk. They knew what we had – they did not let us know.

Seriously – Samsung cannot be trusted to be competent with all this – you need to do your research and ensure – you have the latest revision of the internal panel/sensors kit + the additional fix for the fire hazard risk on the mainboard.

I asked for help on the forum here twice. Each time i got a large number of views – with no reply’s or help in this F/F forum. Infact – I even has a mod to delete my initial post – then put up a new current one – still no joy.

Heaven forbid your unit is one of the dangerous fire hazard units – please chase this up – as it is more important than you can imagine.

I hope this has helped you and any others in the future. These units – I suspect – will last around 15 years. That means there are many still out there in many peoples homes.

[Lazarus]

Re: Siemens machine – bearings shot – recommendations please

Thank you Martin,

That has put my mind at ease.

Can I ask the forum, why are there numerous posts mentioning that there is a ‘wear and tear clause’ regarding bearings – even if within the warranty period.

This is the source of my confusion!

Lazarus.

[Lazarus]

Re: Siemens machine – bearings shot – recommendations please

Thank you both for your replies.

The bearing is definitely the problem.

I guess I should’ve started with the following question:

Given the details I listed in the original post (it’s definitely the bearing) – will they definitely cover it under warranty?

I am concerned that there may be clauses or exceptions that can be used e.g ‘wear and tear’ or the like; which will leave me stuck.

I simply want to build up a picture of what I might be facing, before I act.

I know from the many Tv programs regarding consumer rights, and from stories mentioned in the whi@h magazine, that companies often find ways to avoid replacing/covering expensive replacement parts.

I want to be prepared.

Please advise on this.

Lazarus

[Lazarus]

Re: Washing machine Load Sizes

Lazarus wrote:I’ve read the site articles on load sizes.

Thanks don, I did take a peek. Some of the articles were authored in 2006-2007, and I wondered if they were being written today, what else might be added after so many years if direct experience.

I’m closing in on a Bosch or Siemens.

I’m after real world direct experiences regarding machines with higher load size vs lower.

With this in mind what thoughts are there on my questions y’all.

Thanks,

Lazarus

[Lazarus]

Re: Bosch vs Siemens washing machines

kwatt wrote:Many are on both Bosch and Siemens brands and, many are the same. The difference, so far as I can tell and keep in mind I’ve not researched this in depth as I’ve no call to do so, is in the electronics and software as well as perhaps a few other things, largely cosmetic.

The general ‘belief’ out there, seems to be (BSH group) that the Siemens machines are seen as more premium, , followed by Bosch? The problem is when looking at what Which? thinks , you might be surprised by their results.

As you’ve said – most of the internal components are the same across these two brands, with a few exceptions here and there. I would like put out a call for you to research this in depth if willing!

kwatt wrote:
I did a little research for a thread on Which? and it turned out that a considerable number of components in one Bosch and one Siemens machines rated as a “Best Buy” were in fact identical.

The difference, other than cursory stuff, was one had a two year warranty, the other a five year warranty. The cost of that I guess, was accounting for the lion’s share of the difference, as with the same tank and drum etc there’s not going to be much of a discernible difference in performance.

If I understand correctly, there shouldn’t be much difference between them then. The seriously confusing thing – Which? scores seem to be at odds with this. I don’t understand how this is possible, when Siemens are regarded as the more premium brand, with generally identical parts.

kwatt wrote:
From memory, the trade price of the tank group was about the £200 mark or so. Retail you can kiss goodbye to £300. Or, in other words, when the bearings wear out it’s a pile of scrap.

Have I understood correctly: If someone buys a 5 year warranty machine with a maximum outlook of 5 years then fine. If you want to buy a machine that can be repaired, so your investment might last even longer, then split tub is the only financially sensible purchase? This rests on the fact that, bearing replaceability is the key deal breaker re washing machines.

kwatt wrote:
How fast the bearings will wear out is anyone’s guess, that depends entirely on how much it’s used as a general rule and, in respect to warranty, keep in mind that unless it is a failure extraordinarily early in the life then it is a “wear and tear” item that fails through use.
K.

This is my most important question to the forum. If I buy a brand that has a five year warranty, and the bearings go, halfway through year four – does the warranty cover replacement (irrespective of split or welded)?

Or – have manufacturers ever said:

This bearing failure will NOT be covered under your currently active warranty, as after ‘x’ years, we simply class it as wear and tear.

Surely – if there is a five year warranty, then if the bearings go, they should be covered until and uptill the day that warranty ends???
Surely manufacturers don’t do this – otherwise what is the point of a five year warranty? Please expand your last paragraph.

My last point: Clearly bearings are a key issue in how repairable a machine is. What other components are worth keeping in mind?

My sincere thanks,

Lazarus

[Lazarus]

Re: Bosch vs Siemens washing machines

I’m genuinely grateful for all your input and insight.

As an amateur, I’m looking at the diagram, and it is still not 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} clear cut to me.

Scanning the exploded diagram and list, I can’t see the screws that might join two split-tub halves together.

Please help me see with my amateur eyes, what an expert can.

How can I tell that this diagram is showing that the two halves are held together via screw and clips, instead of through a weld?

Maybe I’m over-thinking this but surely, even if the tub was welded, the schematic would still have to show it in this separated/exploded format, so that the internal components could be documented too?

http://www.siemens-home.co.uk/store/spareparts/Frontloadingautomaticwashingmachine/WM14Q360GB/15

So how do I tell?

Genuine and sincere thanks,

Lazarus.

[Lazarus]

Re: Bosch vs Siemens washing machines

Hi Don,

Please help me understand:

Subject: Which one of these washers? (+ some drum info)

Was there a change at somepoint?

Martin seems to be saying the 390 might have a sealed tub?

[Lazarus]

Re: Bosch vs Siemens washing machines

Okay, given the five year warranty, which one would be the better choice?

Siemens
WM14Q390GB

vs.

Siemens
WM14Q360GB

I got £500 (mid-mark) to invest.

[Lazarus]

Re: Bosch vs Siemens washing machines

So why do Bosch washing machines, seem to be recommended more frequently over Siemens ones, by forum members (out of the two brands).

I guess this is what I’m really trying to discover.

[Author]

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