[Markpd]

Roger that, I’ve asked them a bunch of questions, including about the warrantee, even if he says yes then I will contact AO to ask them.
If he says no then that’s the end of that 😉

[Markpd]

Well, they claim their father ordered it in error, but who knows.
£99 is not something to turn your nose up at :p.

The main thing is, can the warrantee be transferred?

[Markpd]

I’m going to go for the Bosch, although their are fewer reviews of it, no one has mentioned problems with getting large plates in it, not to mention it’s better warrantee and reliability.
I will have to hang the dishwasher over the edge, lol, and if the feet go over the edge too I will simply put a wooden beam on top of the fridge to support it! Hardly elegant, but it’ll barely be visible! 😉

1 more question, I found one for sale at £350, apparently bought in error and never used, it’s being sold by an individual. It has no box, they do have the invoice from AO though. But would the warrantee be valid under my ownership?? (If not, I won’t bother).

[Markpd]

Yea fair point, although they do at least test if they are any good at their job.
Although I’ve just found that out using reevoo user reviews of the Zanussi, loads of people are saying it’s small internally (some compare to the previous model) and won’t take plates over 10″ without tilting them, so I’ll probably pass on that one!
Btw, I post updates to my reviews (where I can), even if it’s years later ;).

So How does Zanussi & co’s reliability compare to Bosch’s?

[Markpd]

Just seen a Zanussi one mentioned, so good to know their a worthy contender, along with AEG, Tricity & Bendix 🙂 (or is that 1 name?).
I was wondering about paying to access the Which reviews, but they’re 4-5yrs old! And the Bosch xx22xx model they’ve reviewed has been replaced by a xx32xx model recently, so not much point reading those reviews. [edit] Well the Zanussi ZDM17301WA is still available so maybe I could get my step mother to read the review, she has a sub ;).
How does Zanussi & co’s reliability compare to Bosch’s?

And yea I was beginning to think it must be a small market by the limited choice.

[Markpd]

Thanks for the info, no parts is no good! It’s funny you know, when I 1st read the brand Cookology I thought that sounded like a dodgy cheap Chinese make! So no surprise there.
I’m surprised by the Klarstein make being unknown though, I think I read somewhere that it is supposedly a German brand.
I looked on their website, not much info there, nothing about the company and no mention of spares. Also I saw this, which the part I’ve highlighted looks dodgy!
Warranty is the statutory obligation of the seller to amend within two years after delivery of any defects on a device or to replace it . In this context, the burden of proof according to ยง476 BGB is to be noted that is the purchaser after a period of six months in the obligation to prove that the defect already existed at the time of purchase.
Sounds like a get out clause of honouring any warrantee after 6mths! Is that even legal?? (btw those weird characters are as it was from their website).
[edit] Why is the italics that is supposed to be above in the preview and not in the post??

Is their no manufacturer other than Bosch to consider?

[Markpd]

Bosch WAN28201GB ordered, should be arriving Thursday :), £409 from BL Vision, including delivery and collection of old machine.

If anyone wants my old Hoover select 1600 for parts, better be quick! ;).

[Markpd]

Going back to the 2 machines I’m looking at (28281 vs 28201), I can’t decide which one I want, theirs no clear winner for me. Bearing in mind I don’t normally wash at 60C. Maybe if I set them out I can decide! 😉
Pro’s for the 28281 for me – shorter 40C cotton programme (just 20mins though), 2-3 dBa quieter washing, 2 dBa quieter spin (so again, not much), 2cm larger porthole. ‘Active water’ function uses fewer sensors so less to go wrong.

Con’s – New model, I generally avoid any new model of anything because they are untested in the ‘wild’ so bugs/flaws haven’t yet been flushed out. No long term reliability info. Active water function is less refined so slightly less water/energy saving vs Active water plus (negligible??). Costs £40 more.

Pro’s for the 28201 for me vs 28281 – less energy used (11{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}) in the 40C cotton programme (even less for 40C colour programme, ~14{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}). Aqua plus (so option of greater rinsing), Economy programme (but I don’t know how well that washes, might be useless??). Active water plus (more refined water filling quantity so slightly more energy/water saving, but negligible??), established and known model (good rep, right?), costs £40 less! :).

Con’s (mostly opposites of the 28281) – longer 40C part load cotton programme, slightly noisier (2-3 dBa washing, 2 dBa spin, but probably quieter than my current machine? Hoover Select 1600), smaller porthole (2cm), Active water plus apparently uses 256 sensors! So more to go wrong?*

*Have their been any significant problems with these?

I wonder if I can find the consumption figures etc for my Hoover Select 1600…….

[Markpd]

I take it that 2nd ‘can’ in your sentence about averages was meant to be a ‘can’t’? 😉

Anyway, yea I’m familiar with kw being an instantaneous figure, what I was forgetting/getting confused about was kwh, for some reason I thought it was the energy used for just 1hr in their tests 😮 , when it is in fact the averaged figure giving the total energy used for that whole cycle.

Don
Thanks for the explanation on that one, I did see the annual figures for all 3 machines, but I wasn’t sure what the 220 cycles consisted of.
Seeing as I nearly always wash at 40C (at least with my old machine) I looked at the figures for the 3 different programs they measured consumption for, specifically the 40C one.

[Markpd]

Yea good point that colder water would increase energy usage, but you’re missing my point that I’m comparing the 2 machines under the same conditions, i.e whatever test Bosch does to publish the 60C full/part load and 40C part load energy usage (maybe it’s an EU spec’ed test??).
I’m not trying to calculate what energy it would use with me, as you allude to their would be too many variables that I can’t know beforehand, and like you said I would have to measure it in use.

So going back to Bosch’s kwh figures, is that an average of the power consumption over the whole cycle? In which case my maths is unnecessary and just flat out wrong? [IMG2=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”full”,”src”:”https://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/forums/core/core/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif”}[/IMG2]
Hmm, I thinking that is the case, if I use my plug in the wall power meter it can measure kwh over time, the longer the better (assuming the consuming unit is always on), and is not limited to 1hr, and that is a measure of average power use. I was getting mixed up between kw for an hr vs kw per hr, the latter of which is what kwh is, right?

[Markpd]

But it’s kwh not kw….
Got ya that it changes with water quantity, but I was just comparing like with like, as in Bosch’s Energy consumption figures, presumably they’re testing under the same conditions?

[Markpd]

Just 1 more thing, I think 😉

Re energy consumption figures (at 60C full load, part load and 40C part load), am I right in thinking to get the total usage figures I multiply the kwh by the total time for that cycle?
e.g
WAN 28281 60C full load 0.92kwh x 3.75hrs (225mins) = 3.45kw/cycle, part load 0.73kwh x 3.5hrs (210mins) = 2.555kw, 40C part load 0.63kwh x 3hrs (180mins) = 1.89kw
WAN 28201 60C full load 0.94kwh x 3.33hrs (200mins) = 3.13kw/cycle, part load 0.78kwh x 3.33hrs (200mins) = 2.6kw, 40C part load 0.56kwh x 3.33hrs (200mins) = 1.867kw

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?? lol
I know the difference is minimal, I just want to know if my maths is right.

PS Found the 28201 going for £410 at lordselectrical (including collecting old machine, need to confirm that’s including from upstairs), vs £449 for the 28281 from johnlewis (including collecting the old machine).

[Markpd]

Re stepped vs stepless, fair enough, I did wonder that, good to know, thanks.
I had a feeling the 28201 was EOL, hence they’re thin on the ground.

Fair enough re delivery, I’ll try to remember you if my sister needs something 🙂

[Markpd]

Yea it would be as I’d do it myself 🙂 (as I mentioned earlier), I’m a car mechanic so I think I’d be able to handle it. The drum including the bearing is £106, although I would try to source the bearing separately.
That said, with the low usage my washing machine gets I hope any failures would be a long way off 😉 (in which case maybe the parts wouldn’t be available!).

Re Active water, yea I’d read that too, but my question was whether Active water plus is worth having over Active water, Active water plus apparently – “saves water and costs thanks to a stepless automatic load adjustment system.”
“Our ActiveWater Plus technology delivers perfect results while only using the precise amount of water needed for every wash, even with small loads. Its integrated sensors automatically adjust the water consumption according to the fabric type and the load.”
They say it uses a network of 256 sensors! (which sounds like a lot that could go wrong!). (for some reason this forum isn’t showing italicised text I’ve got above, although it is in the preview!).

So it seems it’s a 2 step water adjustment level vs a stepless adjustment. I suppose the latter will save more energy and water at the cost of potentially greater unreliability? What we need is a comparison review of the WAN 28281 vs the 28201, but the former just seems too new and I didn’t find any reviews of it (excluding buyer reviews).
The 28201 I’ve seen go for £449 (including collecting my old machine) and the 28281 for £469 [edit] apparently Johnlewis will collect the old machine for free! 🙂 , so that’s £449. Although a local place is listing the 28201 for £389, not including delivery (and not sure if they do atm).

Oh btw, how far do you deliver to?

[Markpd]

That is a good deal :), but that doesn’t have a splittable drum.
And although my sister lives near Exeter, I’m in west Surrey.

AO is showing delivery to me from tomorrow for the WAN 28281 (other places have stock too), free from 18th. The older 28201 is thinner on the ground (I assume it’s EOL), but I found at least a couple of places with it in stock, 1 of them would deliver tomorrow. I won’t be buying from Bosch anyway ;).

Anyone know if Active water plus and Aqua plus are particularly useful or not?

[Author]

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