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Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
Some people are like you Tim but most just want something that works, keeps working and, should it go wrong, is fixed ASAP preferably at no cost. I can understand that TBH.
Oh, me too. I wouldn’t suggest for one moment I was yer normal or sterotypical punter! 😉
On the kit car I had ‘parts only’ insurance. Few would repair my car like I would. 😉
T_i_m wrote:And that (just to be sure) includes supplying the parts at said low prices to the end user, outside the waranty period (inside they would be supplied and fitted FOC)?
Oh yes for sure. We can’t understand the need to charge so much for parts as, while there is a cost in keeping them, shipping them and all that malarky it sure ain’t accounting for many of the prices we see daily.
Thanks for (especially) clarifying the fist point K. So, it’s out of warranty and I need a part .. I guess I can’t just go into my local whitegoods shop (unless they are ISE dealers etc)?
T_i_m wrote:Any thoughts of going to direct drive in the near future K?
No, unproven IMO and the only people using it would appear to have stability issues (despite the propaganda) and they seem to suffer from bearing failures. Even leaving that all aside it’s not cheap to fix when it breaks from my experience.
Ok thanks.
I like proven technology and engineering that, well, just works and keeps doing so. Which is why I love the Swedish machines because when you ask the Swedes, “is it good” you’ll get an answer like, “too early to tell yet, it’s only been in the field for seven years”. They are deadly serious but cracking a joke at the same time as making a point. 😉
Nice one. It’s for all the same reasons I had the Sierra for 23 years, built the kitcar on the MkII Escort (not something more exotic) and have the R100RT motorbike now. Nothing like being stranded because the parts are unobtainable or have to come from halfway across the world. 🙁
T_i_m wrote:And no sealed drums for ISE of course!
No. Unless there was absolutely no possible alternative we would never use them. The idea is to make the machines more serviceable and to last longer, not the reverse.
Brilliant ..
All the best and thanks again …
T i m
helo_75 wrote:lol, you want to know about poor welded tubs, take a look at that new hotpoint/indesit thing
going down like flies
easy to change, not cheap
Ahem, as you mentioned it … what is the best procedure to remove the tub assembly from one of these machines please?
Is it though the top or front?
I dare say I could work it out but shortcuts are always welcomed. 😉
All the best …
T i m
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
madrat wrote:So you could use that hole to remove something stuck in the drum. Not ideal but posible. Dosnt solve the bearing problems though
No … would that be like the gynecologist that wallpapered his hall through the letterbox … ?
I’ll get me coat ….
T i m
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
madrat wrote:What about the heater on these sealed tubs. Are they removable
I would very much hope they were! If it’s isn’t, this machine, filled with petrol is going through the Zanussi showroom window! 😉
All the best ..T i m
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
The cost of the warranty is included in the price and each one reflects the price, features and build.
Ok, given the choice *I* would rather have a cheaper purchase price, the std 1 year warranty (on the grounds that most things that are going to go wrong will do so in the fist few months) and cheap spares after that.
The reason that we deliver and install is to satisfy the insurers and to ensure that the machines are correctly installed. A huge number of service calls generated in the first four weeks of ownership are down to simple misinstallation or educational calls. If an actual service engineer does it these annoyances are massively reduced which saves everyone hassle.
Understood. And when the engineer has gone I will set the machine up better myself . Joking aside, something I’ve slowly come to undersand (accept?) over my 51 years is no one is (or can afford to commercially) pay as much attention to detail as a competent person can his/her self. My Dad taught me a good saying .. “Whatever you do do do do well” and I try to live by that no matter if I am putting the bins out for me or fixing someones car or PC. Any lowering of my standards is normally down to the owner saying ‘that’s fine’ or ‘don’t bother with that’ and even then I may well follow it through to my own satisfaction if I feel it is appropriate (like it might save me having to do it again in the near future).
ISE machines are designed to be as sustainable as possible over a long period of time as well as jump through the usual performance hoops. So we look for good quality build and materials as well as good performance and ease of use. Well performing easy to use machines tend to be liked more by people, in other words simple to program and does the job well.
Excellent (as Mr Burns would say) 😉
Part of the sustainability side of it is to make spare parts available as cheaply as we can, that way we encourage people to keep the machines longer and that’s the idea.
And that (just to be sure) includes supplying the parts at said low prices to the end user, outside the waranty period (inside they would be supplied and fitted FOC)?
They don’t break any more (less actually than many on evidence thus far) like some people would like to make out but when they do break, as all machines will eventually, they are designed to be easy and cheap to put right.
Any thoughts of going to direct drive in the near future K?
We use plastic outer tanks on the 2 and 5 and it’s high grade rolled stainless on the 10.
And no sealed drums for ISE of course!
Very roughly, the 2 has a life expectancy of about 7-10 years. The 5, about 10-15 years and the 10 somewhere between 23-35 years depending on the use in all cases obviously but that’s what I’d reasonably expect in normal use.
Then I would probably go for the 2 or at a push the 5.
I’ll explain. I have been building and maintaining PC’s for the last 20 years (amongst other things) and I have never bought a factory made PC for myself or most of my family in that period (excluding laptops of course).
I recently bought an Apple Mac Mini for our daughter because at the time she was doing a 3D Design L3 BTEC and it was good for her to be able to practice what she had learned at College at home.
I bought it via John Lewis because, unlike PC’s I can’t get easy access to the spares so would be reliant on ‘others’ to fix this machine, something that leaves me quite uncomfortable (I’ll explain that further should anyone be interested).
The flip side of this 2 year waranty was I was then reluctant to touch / upgrade this Mac (as I would normally do with a home made PC and without hesitation) for fear of invalidating the warranty (but I did so anyway). 😉
All the best and thanks again …
T i m
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
Martin wrote:
T_i_m wrote:
All this points to the least cost option of just splitting and re-joining the current tub .. what have I got to lose apart from some time (I’ll test it in the garden so it won’t matter if it leaks ..) 😉What a fascinating read this thread is. 😀
Really?
[quote:326ivo6q] I would imagine that the two halves are ‘welded’ using an adhesive bonding process where the adhesive fuses the two halves together. That the leading edges fuse into one and are therefore impossible to seperate?
Understood, I hadn’t considered seperating the two halves, more cutting them apart (through the fused line). ie, I know it’s not going to crack open along the seam etc.
Here’s a view of a modern welded tub by the way (in this example a Candy) 😉
Ah, thanks for that Martin. Now that tub looks like it was designed from the offset to be one piece. Mine however looks like one that was designed to be bolted together and then fused instead.
All the best ..
T i m
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
Washman wrote:Hi
The welded tub and the split tub use different suspension components.
Mike
Ah … bummer. 🙁Ok, on this there are two white (air?) dampers nearly vertical, mounted to farly large webs at either side of the rear tub moulding (at the centre join) and down to either side of the case / bottom chassis. At the top and in similar locations (top ‘corners’) two open half-length springs attached to the top crossmember and again onto the rear tub moulding (fairly small lugs)?
I know it’s more cost but assuming the mounting points in the cabinet were available (universal to some degree?) then would the ‘alternative’ compents be useable?
All this points to the least cost option of just splitting and re-joining the current tub .. what have I got to lose apart from some time (I’ll test it in the garden so it won’t matter if it leaks ..) 😉
Would there be the actual part numbers on the two halves of my existing tub somewhere Mike? It would be interesting to see if they really are different from the tubs designed to remain split (which I believe many of you are suggesting is probably the case) but then the difference could just be if the lugs are drilled through or not etc .. ?
All the best ..
T i m
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
kwatt wrote:If it’s a sealed tank that you have Tim then no, none of the spares will be the same. Totally different beasts component wise.
Doh!
If it is a split tank there will be a commonality in them all, but things like mounting points, cut out positions and sizes may vary.
Ok ..
I don’t know if that’s correct or not, I don’t work from the various sites like that which don’t give you the actual part number. That’s so it’s hard to compare prices BTW. :rolls:
You can’t blame them I guess.
However if you look at the picture you can see all the holes round the edge where the screws go, yes?
Yes ..
If yours doesn’t have those then that won’t fit and, even were it possible to substitute a split tank for a sealed one, you would need a front half and drum as well at the very least i expect.
Well, mine looks like it does have all the holes K. Every couple of inches or so around the joint there are the ‘tubes’ where the hex headed shouldered bolts would be, except on mine they are blind. There are also other alignment pegs etc, like it was designed to be a two piece system then simply glued together. FWIW, all of the mounting, support and bearing function is done on the back half, the only ‘load’ the front half carries is the counterweight (and I should imagine at 1400 rpm the dynamic loads could still be quite high). eSpares quoted for the matching front half.
I’d wait and look it up properly using the pukka Electrolux TDS disc or the online service, neither of which I have access to here at home. Dave will likely answer you at some stage today or early tomorrow though.
Well thank you both in advance for your time here and I do appreciate everyones efforts very much.
I’m happy to keep on with this because I believe our base cause is the same, keeping potentially good equipment out of landfill. Yesterday I did two loads on this machine, a pair of coats and some greasy work clothes. Both sets came out looking and smelling clean and have since been through the recently repaired Zanussi TD-534 dryer. So, there I am looking into this perfectly clean (‘as-new’, inside and out), perfectly functional (ignoring the bearing noise on spin) washer and thinking there must be a solution…
Depending on what we do today I might do some work on this machine. My first task will be to remove the tub (tips please??) and then consider how I might cut it open so as to remove the minimum material and not touch the drum. Once that is in two I can remove the drum, bearings and seal see what I have actually got (I have multi leggged bearing pullers, a 10 tonne hydraulic press, most other workshop tools a lathe and MIG, Gas and Arc. Oh, and a big hammer!) I’m also an electronics and electrical engineer and am happy whilst playing with electricity, water and gas (none can hurt you if switched off) 😉
I’m not sure if the blind bolt ‘lugs’ we mentioned above contain anything (like steel alignment pegs or self gripping double ended fastners) and that would depend on how these two sections were joined. If they were friction welded I suspect the lugs are empty. If they were pre-heated or solvent welded then the lugs may contain something. It will be easy enough to cut through one with a junior hacksaw to find out though. Even if they do contain something I should imagine they can be removed to leave clean hollow lugs that I would re-fasten using stainless steel bolts and nyloc nuts. Assuming the bolts do all the physical work (as with any split tub) then I’m wondering if some decent silicone (adhesive rather than bathroom sealant) might make a sufficient watertight seal, after all it’s not under any water pressure.
Anyway, I’ll cross those bridges if / as / when I come to them. 😉
All the best ..
T i m
p.s. Would you be so kind to comment on my previous thoughts re ISE please K (or anyone). To make it easy to find I said:
“Ok, I was going to ask .. so I buy a new ISE machine (a std production maxhine from XYZ that’s had some bits tweeked) and it get’s installed etc all in (I’ve never had anything delivered or installed, prefering to do both myself). I get a ‘free’ 2, 5 or 10 year warranty (? depending on model), again something I’ve never bought on any appliance.
What *I* want from (say) a washing machine is one that works well (it doesn’t have to be the best), works reliably for at least (allowing for todays drop in pride / quality etc) 5 years and during and after that period I would like to be able to buy spares at the prices you offer.
If that is what I would get from an ISE machine then you can count me in”.
p.p.s. Looking at the drawings for the ISE machines I see they also use the plastic tub but I would assume, not one piece!
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
No, if it’s a sealed tank the spares will not be available, period.
Ok. So, there has never been a model that shares the same key components that had a split tub then K?
Or is there even more to it?
All the best ..
T i m
p.s. Is this wrong as well as eSpares then (Partsmaster, 7th item down)?
ZWF1431W PCN 914521201/00
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
kwatt wrote:If eSpares have told you they are available they are either wrong or have been given the wrong information.
Is it not at all possible they could be correct? When I wanted parts for the Zanussi tumble dryer recently they were spot on with all the components?
The only other possibility is that they don’t know that there can be alternative variants based on the machine’s production code.
Ok …?
Not that eSpares ever get it wrong of course being so knowledgeable with so many skilled staff. 😆
Well, obviously I have no inside / political connection with them other than being a satisfied customer. The parts came through as promised and I was kept informed re the order progress by email. The particular ‘operator’ I delt with seemed to know what I wanted and was curtious and efficient. I have since found the prices were a bit high but you can’t expect cheap and good service can you!
Electrolux products often have several variants over the lifetime of a model number and they can be wildly different.
Understood.
Email Dave on spares@ukwhitegoods.co.uk with the model number, PNC number and the parts needed. You’ll likely find they’re cheaper as well. But, if it’s a welded tank there will be no spares available other than a full tub group and no information on the spares either.
So the two part tub that’s listed as a spare for my machine is different to the two parts that have obviously been glued together on my machine?
ISE performance is good, 5 better, 10 better still. Whether the 2 is as good as the Zanussi I can’t say as I haven’t tested a Zanussi in a long while now. Without comparing them back to back it’s hard to judge performance.
Well, some feedback for you then .. ignoring the sounds of a Chinook landing in the kitchen when it’s spinning the clothes I’ve tested so far come out clean enough and that’s all we ask of a machine.
Anyway, I’ll email Dave as you suggest and see what he comes up with. If he can’t help I’ll get them from eSpares
All the best ..
T i m.
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
kwatt wrote:
T_i_m wrote:
Out of interest, would you call this Zanussi ZWF1431W ‘cheap’?Yes. And, I can explain why that is.
Please .. 😉
[quote:2x2fw7km]I was part of the main Zanussi service agency for over ten years in Glasgow carrying out over 12,000 service calls per year only on Zanussi.
We rode through Glasgow on one of our motorcycle camping trips (Me on my basic but repairable BMW R100RT and her on her infallable Yamaha XV750) 😉
I can assure you that this machine is nowhere well as engineered, built, robust or repairable as a Zanussi before they introduced the stupid Nexus tanks, made from plastic and all green and eco-friendly as they could be recycled.
.
Understood. But I believe Zanussi are still 1/2 way up (or down) the scale?
To this day I have yet to see a system for returning or reclaiming that material and I am in no doubt that there is tons of it in landfill sites all over the UK.
Shame.
Now they’ve sealed the tanks to make them still less repairable, bright uh?
AEG, Tricity, Zanussi, Electrolux, John Lewis and a few others all use the same tanks in them. Same thing for Hoover & candy, Indesit, Hotpoint, Ariston and others. The list is seemingly endless.
So you can’t buy an AEG of the same quality ever again, they don’t exist any more and reports are reaching me of multiple bearing failures between 12 and 24 months old across all these brands.
I think I bought the 6100 about when Zanussi / Electrolux was consuming AEG .. and had already digested (or substituted) it’s machines in the lower end AEG offerings. But I really cared less what badge was on it, as long as it worked, and carried on doing so ..
But then, back in the day, we thought being able to sell a 1200 Zanussi for £350 was damned cheap!
That was nearly twenty years ago.
Ok ..
Now, almost twenty years later are you telling me that a machine costing £25 more should be good, how does that work?
I’m not ‘telling you’ anything K, I’m just an open minded d-i-y’er that is up for a challenge remember! 😉
Back then a Ford Escort could be had for less that £5000, new, half the equivalent would cost today In a showroom.
Yup, I still own one .. it’s a 1978 MKII 1300 Saloon that currently looks like an early Suzy Jeep. In fact I did an “ISE” on the Escort. I took away the problem bits (rusty steel monocoque body) and replaced it with a substantial steel ladder chassis and a fibreglass bodyshell. 18 years on and there’s not a touch of rust on the body … .
You mentioned earlier that there should have been advances in production thereby leading to cost savings and, there has been.
Crikey, I got something right! 😉
Trouble is not a lot of them are actually doing any good other than making the SRP lower.
Of course not, but that was the point. These products have become ‘cheaper’ partly because of the lower cost of production (scale, automation and harmonisation), not necessarily (just) because they are using inferior components?
If you look through the manufacturer section you’ll see that many of the “big five” as we call them or now six, own the majority of brands out there. We went through a massive rationalisation in the 80’s and 90’s with a few stragglers being picked up in the past few years. These companies will represent well in excess of 60{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of all appliances sold in the world, it is no longer regional really. These are now global corporations that don’t give a fig what you or I think nor do they seem to care how good the product really is. What they do care about is sales volumes.
With respect you aren’t telling me anying new here K. My point was we (the customers) can and sometimes do vote with our feet. Ok, it might take a bit of time for yer average Joe Punter to catch on but they often do.
The reason that they have these different brands is, as in the example with Electrolux, the punter that buys a Zanussi will pay a little more, the one that buys an AEG a bit more still, somewhere in the middle is the Electrolux brand and right down there at the bottom is Tricity Bendix. Sorted, all areas of the marketplace covered.
Skoda, VW, Audi? Toyota / Lexus … ?
Slight problem with that, behind the fascia there’s really not a lot of difference between them.
😉
Take your pick of the big boys, they all play the same games.
😉
Now you get into the cost of spares, something that we kick up merry hell about, as they are often way, way, way over the top priced. A motor for that Zanussi you have, kiss goodbye to at least £100.
And for my AEG Lavamat, £217 was my last quote. But then if you say I’d have to buy something pretty expensive to replace it that puts the motor price back on track?
A tub you’ve already found out is way over £100 and a PCB won’t be far off that if not more. I don’t even have to look up the prices, I know what to expect. How can three components cost as much as a replacement machine and why?
The same reason as car some parts are so expensive (where there is no pattern / aftermarket competition) and why a Lexmark inkjet printer costs more than it’s cartridge …? (And why I chose a Canon ip4000 and cartridges at £1.20 each) 😉
When we started ISE we wanted to try to cut through all this so yeah, the machines cost a little more up front but, for example the main PCB on an ISE2 is £22, a motor £35, a complete tank £35 a rear half with bearings £20. It’s a cheap machine and the parts are equally cheap.
Ok, I was going to ask .. so I buy a new ISE machine (a std production maxhine from XYZ that’s had some bits tweeked) and it get’s installed etc all in (I’ve never had anything delivered or installed, prefering to do both myself). I get a ‘free’ 2, 5 or 10 year warranty (? depending on model), again something I’ve never bought on any appliance. What *I* want from (say) a washing machine is one that works well (it doesn’t have to be the best), works reliably for at least (allowing for todays drop in pride / quality etc) 5 years and during and after that period I would like to be able to buy spares at the prices you offer. If that is what I would get from an ISE machine then you can count me in.
But we don’t try to dupe people with different brand names, it’s an honest and upfront way of saying, you get what you pay for. People will either listen or they won’t, it’s up to them but we were never comfortable with the standard industry practices as we think it’s bordering on dishonest.
We agree again then. And a concept we (the public) have assumed (innocently) was the case already?
So in the end I wish you luck with the Zanussi but you won’t be able to buy tub halves for it, it will only be supplied as a complete tank.
Erm, eSpares have quoted me prices for both halves and they are in stock? *Many* other online suppliers show the back section mit bearings / seal for ~£90?
The bearings will be easily available the seal won’t be as there will be no part number and no data on it, you’d have to match it up and hope to find one that you can use.
Erm, again, it seems to be easily availiable?
Then all you need to do is somehow get it sealed back up again and make it watertight and able to stand the stresses involved.
As per the standard split (non welded) tub machines then K? I’m confused now … 🙁
But, it won’t make the machine any better as I said.
Oh, indeed and I have no query with that point whatsoever. So, again, just for comparison, would you say the basic ISE will wash, rinse and spin *better* than this Zanussi then (I’ve just stuck some greasy work clothes through it as a test and they seem to be clean enough, even on low settings)?
All the best .. 😉
T i m
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
T_i_m wrote:I understand that several members on this list are professionals in this game and being that close can sometimes mean the status quo can be more accepted than by us ‘outsiders’?
Over 1200 members of UK Whitegoods are in the trade, there’s a little bit of industry experience here. 😉
Oh indeed, but (respectfully) I’m not sure a ‘professional’ would either have the time nor the flexibility a resourseful d-i-y’er might have? Ie, you probably wouldn’t be allowed (or want to risk) doing a ‘non standard’ repair in case something went wrong later and sommeone was hurt.
There is no doubt many folk on here could strip this machine far quicker and more logically that I will but then what happens when you get to the tub? (if someone has actually split one ‘carefully’ I would be interested to hear from them).
Unless people vote with their feet and, more importantly, their wallets then Martin is correct, the policy won’t change.
And maybe that might be more likely as the cost of living continues to increases as it is doing now. In time of plenty we can afford to squander, some of us still wouldn’t even if we could afford to.
The Dualit is a good toaster, I’ve had one for years (a decade or more I think) and never touched it other than to use it and, it gets used daily. I bought it, at the time it was about £100 IIRC, because I got sick fed up of a new toaster every year and the rubbish results form the cheapo ones.
I’m still tempted to buy one .. but I don’t like the idea of it not being ‘cool wall’ .. and being quite bukly .. and stainless finish (difficult to keep clean) .. 🙁
But I took the conscious decision to buy better and it’s saved me money in the longer term as well as a whole heap of hassle I don’t want or need. Asides from which, as a big bonus, I get better performance.
That last bit is the key though isn’t it. Most of us don’t mind paying over the odds if something actually works better (but most draw the line with Dyson and Apple)
Even more shocking is that people will spend more on a hunk of plastic cr4p from Dyson than they will on a washing machine then expect it to last longer and, for me, that just beggers belief!
Yep, but thanks to the fact they can be unreliable and the ease they can be fixed I have both a DC01 and 03 that cost me nothing to obtain (Freecycle) and pence to ‘repair’. Bring on all the ‘beyond economical to repair’ goods I say!
Just what quality of washing machine do you expect for less than the price of a vacuum cleaner?
Erm not me, I don’t? I bought a Miele cleaner (that just has to suck cold air) because it was quiet (for about £200 if I remember correctly). The last washing machine I bought (that has to do a lot more than suck cold air) was the AEG Lavamat Digitronic 6100 but that was 15 years ago and I can’t remember what it cost (but I don’t think it was ‘cheap’).
All the best ..
T i m
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
Bearing failures under a year old are commonplace now on cheap machines and have been for almost ten years now.
People want cheap, pay cheap, they get cheap. It’s that simple.
Out of interest, would you call this Zanussi ZWF1431W ‘cheap’?
As for the environment, well no-one really seems to care TBH. Some light bedtime reading for you
.
Interesting, one ends with ‘do your research’ and the other with ‘no point doing any research’ .. 🙂
You’ve fallen into a classic trap here of trying to apply the law in a different way to different products, it doesn’t work that way I’m afraid.
You often use the car industry as a benchmark as do we but think about these points:
- If a component fails on a car does it cost >50{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} the cost of a new car?
Maybe not, but I was informed the other day that if a modern 3 year old car is involved in a relatively minor accident then 12 airbags at £500 each, the crash damage and the disposable dashboard can write it off.
The fact of it is that people research a new car far, far more as it costs so much more and yet expect an appliance costing far, far less to last longer than they own the car and expect better service from it.
What ‘people’ research a new anything these days. Don’t they simply buy on either cost (free finance), convienience (local dealer) or the lifestyle sold to them from the TV?
Is it just me or is that a bit crazy?
Not saying .. 😉
T_i_m wrote:Yes, but the £15 should at least last the year. Further to this we are now seeing prestige names branding lower cost equipment and selling on their name alone.
Yes because people like to think that they can get something for nothing or a free ride. You can’t, there always comes a point where you have to pay the piper.
So is say £375 for this Zanussi and one years use considered ‘nothing’?
Good for Dyson, I don’t rate the machines one bit, I think they’re rubbish compared with Sebo or Miele cleaners and cost more but at least that seems good customer service.
.
Nor do I, but then I’m not yer average punter. How many people do you know who go into their local electrical / whitegoods shop to buy a cleaner, sporting a sound level meter? (I bought a Miele Cat n Dog btw).
Without knowing what’s inside there’s no way to tell I’m afraid, until it’s too late.
Well the ‘too late’ has already happened of course as this machine was heading for landfill. It cost me a breakfast to my ‘mate with a van’ and I will split the tub as carefully as I can with the thought to re-joining it if for no other reason than to see what happens and how bad the bearing is.
If the stripdown goes ok then I might then consider new tub halves mit bearing (anyone want to help sponser this project with some discount please) ? 😉
Could be an interesting long term feasability study … ?
All the best ..
T i m
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
kwatt wrote:There’s a fly in that ointment Martin…
There’s a massive difference between £10-30 for a pump and way over £100 for a tank.
The only problem I ever had with the old pumps was that you couldn’t buy spares for them most often, people didn’t like that they had to buy a whole pump for a 60p seal being faulty. Now you have to buy a >£100 tank for a £20 set of bearings being faulty, big difference IMO.
I always like the fact that you could be given the choce of replacements .. “Ok mate, you can have this AEG one at 30 quid or this exact same Zanussi one for 20” 😉
Worse, get a bra wire or whatever trapped in there and the machine could be scrapped because of it, hardly environmentally friendly!
I understand that several members on this list are professionals in this game and being that close can sometimes mean the status quo can be more accepted than by us ‘outsiders’? “One day all tubs will be this way” sorta thing (and they are probably right). However, things can change. They make a tub designed to be bolted together then save 50 pence by fusing it together. Joe public get’s to hear about it (often via there wallets), it ends up on Watchdog and peoples awareness starts to grow. Questions are then asked in the showrooms and the splittable tub machines start selling in greater numbers … so the manufactures start bolting them back together again?
People will vote with their feet in the end once they learn or the washing machine will simply become like a toaster, if it goes wrong you throw it away and repairs become a thing of the past.
I agree. You can buy a basic toaster for £6 and I did recently to replace an end-of-line Swan toaster that has served us well for many years and has started getting a bit erattic. The £6 toaster is cr@p, it burns the toast as it’s too fast and is very unpredictable (oh, and actually tripped our RCD the other day!). A Dualit toaster would be £120 and whilst it may be repairable I’m not sure it would actually toast any better than the old Swan or many other models if you were a bit lucky. If it actually worked better than any other toaster, had a predicted long lifespan and was repairable then I might consider spending £120 on one because it’s only £120 not £800.
The strange thing is for less money than a Dualit toaster you can buy a brand new tumble dryer … (shrugs).
All the best ..
T i m
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
kwatt wrote:
T_i_m wrote:
I suppose *they* do. Some of us expect a product to be able to achieve a certian lifespan and if it doesn’t expect a solution. Had this machine been bought by me from new, had it died inside (minimum) 3 years I would have been straight up the TS demanding some Merchantable Quality.Hi Tim,
Have a read at this article
The legal system, in practise, holds little that will be of any help in cases like this as it takes into account the cost, useage and is pretty vague around telling you what is considered to be “reasonable”. In short there is no warranty of “durability” and no set timescale by which any goods should last with each taken on its own merits.
I’ve seen TS and Citizen’s Advice trying this before over this sort of thing and the parts prices and the so called parts warranties from the likes of Hoover (Candy) and Hotpoint (Indesit) with no success most often other than perhaps a gratis repair fee.
Caveat emptor I’m afraid in the real world.
K.
Hi and understood.
From your link I am particularly interested in the following points ..
“Goods cannot always be expected to work fault-free. They can break down through normal use. Consumers cannot, therefore, expect to hold the seller responsible for fair wear and tear. There needs to be a fault that was present on the day of sale even though it only became apparent later on, or a mis-description of the goods, or a lack of durability that suggests the goods were not of satisfactory quality to start with.”
So, a washing machine bearing that fails in one year. Isn’t there a possibility that there was a manufacturing fault at day one (like a miss-fitted seal etc?). Ok, bearings fail but making the unit in such a fashion that then can’t be easily repaired is not doing the manufacturer or humanity any justice. When we throw things away, just where is ‘away’. It’s actually just somewhere else and (as I’m sure all here will agree) will come back and bite us in the future. I predict they will be diging up new housing estates to mine the ‘stuff’ we threw away in the not too distant future.
“It also means that, if you buy say a £200 washing machine then it cannot reasonably be expected to last as long as a similar product costing £1000. Given that this pretty much goes from the top to the bottom of the washing machine price range then the one at the bottom may only be expected to last a few years whilst the one at the top would be expected to perhaps reasonably exceed a decade or more of use.”
Of course, but the bottom line here is “a few years”, not ONE year. This is especially the case on the bottom end models where the cheapest components are used. Similarly with the Indian built Royal Enfield Bullet motorcycle. The materials they are made from are inferior to what is generally used in todays modern machines but the REB’s are indefinatly repairable and the parts are equally cheap. We don’t mind if it’s cheap and might go wrong as long as we can repair it when it does.
“The price (a £200 audiotape player might be expected to last longer than a £15 one);”Yes, but the £15 should at least last the year. Further to this we are now seeing prestige names branding lower cost equipment and selling on their name alone. I bought my wife an £80 Sony portable CD/Walkman and it lasted roughly 3 uses over 18 months. I wouldn’t buy any other Sony product and have now found a cheaper one that has been working fine for nearly two years. Mud sticks.
“There is a good indicator that there has been a problem with a component and, that is, if there has been a modification. Normally this will indicate that there has been some sort of issue caused by the component in question and that some form of modification has been carried out to try and resolve the issue. It is not guaranteed to be the case of course as there are other reasons to modify a part, such as the component supplier is no longer used, but it does usually point to a problem.”
I collected a faulty Dyson DC03 from Freecycle. The ‘fault’ was simply a broken wire at the moulded plug. It also appeared that the wand had broken at the handle joint and it looked to me like a design weakness. I contacted their customer service department and explained the situation. They send me a complete new wand that was of a stronger design, foc. Will I deal with Dyson again .. yes.
So, with this washing machine sealed tub thing I will personally make every effort to not buy one, ever, even if that means taking my washing down the local brook! 😉
All the best ..
T i m
