As promised, review of the ISEW1607W.

[Higher-water-level]

I don’t know where to start reviewing such a beast really…..

First of all wash performance is equal to that of my previous washing machine, a 17 year old Bosch WFF2000, now thats no mean feat as the Bosch had exceptional wash performance and I have a VERY dirty job!

The rinse performance is excellent, however I will get onto that later.

It spins absolutley superbly, it is permanently set on 1200rpm, as this is fast enough the 1600rpm is just plain silly and far too fast, extra wear and tear for no gain, so pointless and will not be used.

It is very very quiet, when washing all you can hear are the clothes spashing about in the water. The spinning is quiet also due to the use of an inverter fed induction motor, so no brush whine. It is quieter than the Bosch, but the Bosch was far from noisey. I don’t find the filling or the pump noisey as others have stated, its no noisier than anything else I have had.

The build quality is fantastic, lets make no bones about that at all. You can see its not built like the average pile of garbage down the sheds.

Now here is the bit ISE will not like. I said I would get onto rinsing later, well here it is, yes it rinses well, but and here is the real caveat, time. It takes over an hour to complete 7 rinse cycles and the final spin, now this is rediculous. Now the reason it needs to do such a daft number of rinses, it has only does 2 intermediate spins, one after the wash, which usually sudslocks, so pointless and one after the third rinse. It does 3 rinses before a spin all it does is pump out and then a further 4 rinses again just draining inbetween, no spinning, not even briefly. It would only need to do 4 or 5 rinses if it spun out inbetween, like every other machine does. My Bosch spun at only 400rpm after the wash and between ALL the 4 rinses for less than a minute and yeilded the same rinse results in half the time.

If it wasn’t for such good wash performance I would be returning this machine for a refund. Its advertised as being a short cycled machine, but putting options in and you are up to two hours plus for a wash, two and a half for a boil wash, this is not even the long boil wash, that would be well over three. :rolls:

I know I should not be comparing it to my Mums Miele Little Giant, but that completes a boil wash, even with a prewash and 5 rinses in less than an hour and a half. Now before anyone starts to question this, it has both hoses connected to the cold water supply, has had one of the heaters disconnected so it doesn’t have to be hard wired and has had the wash water increased to the bottom of the door glass, like the ISE10 with High water level selected (which it is). Something else is the Miele spins after the prewash, mainwash and inbetween ALL the rinses so rinses properly even with just the 5. It spins at 1000rpm after the wash and after the 1st rinse after the rest of the rinses it spins at 600rpm for 20 seconds, even allowing for run up.

Now my new ISE 10 will persist in sudslocking in the spin after the main wash, especially if I have a load of mainly towels in there, which makes up the bulk of my whites wash. When it does spin it sets off hell for leather trying to reach about 1000rpm without a gradual run up so the pump cannot clear the soapy water quick enough. I had less detergent in than I should have. I put in two Persil tablets, the same as the Bosch got, I should have used three in the ISE as it has a big capacity, good job I didn’t. So I am now going to have to comit the cardinal sin and put in far less detergent than the detergent manufactureres recommend, so reduced cleaning results and risk of limescaling the machine internally. The Bosch and Miele have NEVER sudslocked in their lives, due to the gradual run up and programming it is impossible.

Over all it is a good machine, I am not at all convinced it is direct competition to Miele, not even the domestic ones. My Mum would say “There is Miele and then there is the rest”, this has also been backed up by JTM, the company who supplied the Little Giant, they said Asko are good but not as good as Miele, however there is one hell of a price difference.

I do like the machine, not as much as my old Bosch, but I like it. If it rinsed in a normal way instead of trying to be different I would be happier, also if it washed in a sensible amount of time that would be nice, but you cannot have your cake and eat it.

Do I recommend the ISE10?
Well, yes and no. If you are prepared to live with the above then yes./ For me it is not the perfect machine and doubt I will ever be 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} happy with it but I can live with it. As the next step up cost over £3K, so for the money it is a good machine and I hope it last the length of time ISE claim it will. It does about 4 – 5 loads a week so on that basis should last about 30 years with no repairs, I hope. 8)

Best regards to everyone,

Oliver.

[Higher-water-level]

Re: As promised, review of the ISEW1607W.

I will update this thread when I have used the machine more with different loads. 😉

[Higher-water-level]

Re: As promised, review of the ISEW1607W.

I was hoping somene from ISE would comment on the issues I raised.

Oliver.

[kwatt]

Re: As promised, review of the ISEW1607W.

It’s your review Oliver and your take on it which, if a manufacturer accepts the ability of users to comment, they have to accept but not necessarily comment on. 😉

The points I’d make would be that, for a completely commercial machine such as the Miele, using more water and power is pretty irrelevant in the market it is designed for. For a domestic version, it’s a bit different and a lot of the things around program length and the likes are heavily dependant on stuff like the volume of water used, heater ratings which can and do affect the times.

You’re also comparing to a domestic machine that would have used considerably more water and power as well.

Modern machines as well as non-commercial generally use less water and power but take longer to wash. On average the ISE will wash a cotton 40Ëš load in about an hour, hour and a bit with the default settings. Adding extra rinses or whatever will add to the time taken.

However, against most machines you will buy these days that’s really very good as a lot of them will take two hours or more for a normal 40Ëš wash.

As for the spin between rinses, no idea as I’ve not looked at it and have never even had a comment passed on it so I can’t say that I’ve noticed when testing or encountered any issue there at all. I can ask factory if you like next time I’m out there?

TBH, I’m more interested in the build and results overall. 😉

On spin, I have said (again and again) that super duper mega fast spins aren’t the be all and end all but, that’s what people want. As a manufacturer you have to react to that whether you like it or not. The best you can do is try to educate people on the use.

I would agree on the detergent thing, we’ve found that you can use considerably less than the recommended dosage from the detergent manufacturers as well with no issue or impact on wash results. But I think ISE do mention that somewhere from memory, I do know that Asko do.

JTM should be listing the ISE soon we hope but at the moment they don’t have them but have Miele, so I’m not exactly surprised that someone would say that.

I can also say that, from what people have told me that own a Miele, they do take two hours plus on some models to do a standard cotton 40Ëš wash.

But, as you say, you can’t have your cake and eat it. You can’t have all the energy and water reduction and have the performance, just as you can’t have a diesel with the performance of a a Ferarri. Somewhere there has to a compromise made and a balance struck.

I think the 1607 offers a nice balance between performance, results and economy. But then, that’s just my opinion. 😉

K.

[Higher-water-level]

Re: As promised, review of the ISEW1607W.

Hi Ken,

Thank you for the concise reply. 😀

Firstly I would like to say the Miele Little Giant is set on maximum water use and the highest number of rinses and it uses less than the ISE. It rinses just as well because of the intermediate spins at every stage. With regard to wash time, it doesn’t have any, once temperature is reached it does a dilution rinse and drains and spins, then moves on to the rinses. This is what I was hoping the ISE would do, the Miele’s wash performance is superior to anything I have ever seen, it agitaes about the same as the ISE and washes in the same amount of water, as the ISE has High water level permanently selected. Admittedley the ISE washes to a standard not just similar too the of the Little Giant.

Regarding the Bosch, 17 though it was, I was just as water economical as any modern machine (if Higher water level isn’t selected), or there abouts, it washed in 2″ of water and the rinses (3) did not even come up to the door. There were only 4 rinses 1/3 up the door with HWL selected, which it was.

When Mum went to JTM she wanted a Miele not an ISE, even if they had sold them she would not have considered them. Everywhere we went Miele was always coming up the best out of commercial machines, we looked at, Ipso, Schulthess, Girbau and all JLA’s and Armstongs offerings. Every avenue persued lead to Miele, I have no reason to think JTM were not telling the truth when they say Miele is the best. For 20+ loads a week they admitted themselves it was most suitable, although Mum wouldn’t have had anything else anyway.

Domestic Miele do take 2 hours to wash, granted, but selecting “water plus” adds more water and shortens the whole cycle as the machine is now washing as a 20 year old would, Ie. properly. This is one feature I love about the ISE the High water level, clothes get washed in water and not washed in their own wettness. The ISE also has deep fill rinses another feature I love, my clothes are not irritating my skin so it must rinse properly.

Here is the concern though, will all this extra time take shorten the machines life or will I really see 8,000 cycles out of it ❓

Cheers Ken,

Oliver.

[kwatt]

Re: As promised, review of the ISEW1607W.

Hi Oliver,

I can’t speak to the technicalities of the Miele or how they actually do stuff as, only Miele know and won’t share the info with anyone. Plus, full on commercial machines are not an area I am well versed enough in to offer any opinion really.

But I would point out that you’re comparing a three grand full on commercial with a machine designed for light commercial and domestic use. Not exactly apples with apples.

The older machines I would agree, especially when you compare them to the cheaper machines about now, washed considerably better. Some of the wash results out cheap machines these days are pretty grim. But then they used a lot more water and a lot more energy as well, so to get that down you have to compromise.

On most modern washers you would ever see the water sloshing about the door glass. They all use less now due to an EU wide agreement not to produce “domestic” washing machines with less than a “C” rating but, the reality is, there’s almost none now that aren’t “A” rated or higher due to commercial pressures. Basically, that’s what people want.

Hence when I spec’d the machine I wanted the high water level feature and the extra rinses as I know only too well from what people have told me over the years that that’s what they actually want. So, there’s the option to use or not as you wish.

Twenty loads a week isn’t that bad TBH. Why did they steer to the Miele for that? Although I don’t know a lot about commercials a JLA6, some of the Ipso lower end and a few others would eat that, even the ISE will cope that just fine.

The extra rinses or time has no discernible effect on lifespan at all.

HTH

K.

[Higher-water-level]

Re: As promised, review of the ISEW1607W.

Hi Ken,

True, I shouldn’t compare the two but when you have access to both, you cannot help but compare.

I personally do not care about water or energy usage (neither does my Mum), I suffer badly with my skin and need a washer to do what it should properly. I am pleased the ISE offers extra options as low water use for me is a no go area.

IMHO people are easily lead, I remember old machines which used a sensible amount of water and washed in a sensible amount of time got clothes far cleaner than the modern 2 hour jobs. We have had a modern Hotpoint, it took forever and didn’t wash or rinse properly and in general was a waste of £500.

The extra water use and rinses was a major selling point of the ISE against other machines, so I was pleased to see it.

JTM didn’t steer us anywhere. I ordered the machine on Mums behalf, Miele told us of JTM as they are our local commercial dealer. They called me as Miele told them to and I ordered a Miele Little Giant. Mum knew what she wanted, the Miele fit the bill. The list of what her machine must do filled a piece of A4 paper, the Miele has been programmed accordingly and she loves it. She knew nothing domestic would have coped like the 10 year old Siltal did, so we all decided commercial was best, at her rate it will be the last washing machine they ever buy. We didn’t want a JLA6 as it would not fit under the worktop and being a Schulthess it has a sealled tank, so a no go.

So I should see my 8,000 before it starts to wear out then, excellent.

Regards,

Oliver.

[kwatt]

Re: As promised, review of the ISEW1607W.

Higher-water-level wrote:I personally do not care about water or energy usage (neither does my Mum), I suffer badly with my skin and need a washer to do what it should properly. I am pleased the ISE offers extra options as low water use for me is a no go area.

Yeah but a lot of machines are bought on the strength that people will save a fortune on their electricity bills not understanding that, actually, even a claimed 20-30{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} saving is only a couple of pence a wash at best.

The detergent costs more than the electricity!!

Concerns over skin conditions and proper rinsing was a big concern for me as I’ve seen lots of people on the service side of the industry bemoaning, how can I put this nicely… machines of a lesser quality not performing as well as the customer perhaps expected.

I think that’s as polite as I can get it. 😉

Problem is, most people don’t suss it until it’s too late and, whilst we as repairers can fix them, we can’t make them better.

Higher-water-level wrote:IMHO people are easily lead, I remember old machines which used a sensible amount of water and washed in a sensible amount of time got clothes far cleaner than the modern 2 hour jobs. We have had a modern Hotpoint, it took forever and didn’t wash or rinse properly and in general was a waste of £500.

Yup.

In order of popularity, the reasons for buying the machine that we got was:

Brand Reputation/Brand
Energy efficiency
Price

So manufacturers will target having a good brand and reputation, make them as energy efficient and as cheap as possible.

People buy into it.

K.

[Martin]

Re: As promised, review of the ISEW1607W.

In the light of your recent purchase Oliver, you may perhaps wish to edit your signature? 😀

[Higher-water-level]

Re: As promised, review of the ISEW1607W.

Martin wrote:In the light of your recent purchase Oliver, you may perhaps wish to edit your signature? 😀

Excellent idea, Martin, it’ll still have Miele in there though! 😆

[Higher-water-level]

Re: As promised, review of the ISEW1607W.

kwatt wrote:

Higher-water-level wrote:
I personally do not care about water or energy usage (neither does my Mum), I suffer badly with my skin and need a washer to do what it should properly. I am pleased the ISE offers extra options as low water use for me is a no go area.

Yeah but a lot of machines are bought on the strength that people will save a fortune on their electricity bills not understanding that, actually, even a claimed 20-30{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} saving is only a couple of pence a wash at best.

The detergent costs more than the electricity!!

Concerns over skin conditions and proper rinsing was a big concern for me as I’ve seen lots of people on the service side of the industry bemoaning, how can I put this nicely… machines of a lesser quality not performing as well as the customer perhaps expected.

I think that’s as polite as I can get it. 😉

Problem is, most people don’t suss it until it’s too late and, whilst we as repairers can fix them, we can’t make them better.

“Higher-water-level”:1pbap1o6 wrote:IMHO people are easily lead, I remember old machines which used a sensible amount of water and washed in a sensible amount of time got clothes far cleaner than the modern 2 hour jobs. We have had a modern Hotpoint, it took forever and didn’t wash or rinse properly and in general was a waste of £500.

Yup.

In order of popularity, the reasons for buying the machine that we got was:

Brand Reputation/Brand
Energy efficiency
Price

So manufacturers will target having a good brand and reputation, make them as energy efficient and as cheap as possible.

People buy into it.

K.

I fully agree Ken. This is the reason I altered the Siltals pressure switch as its rinse performance was useless. Towels were completeley hard with detergent.

regards
Oliver.

[Higher-water-level]

Re: As promised, review of the ISEW1607W.

Right I have had the machine a few weeks now, so here is an update.

I am still over the moon with the wash and rinse performance, even my heavily soiled clothing comes clean, grease removed etc. I do boil that type of laundry though, but results still excellent.

I think my whites look whiter than they did in the old Bosch and my coloureds look brighter too. So it must wash slightly better.

However it has a problem. :rolls: Everytime I wash the 60oC coloured load (jeans, jumpers, t-shirts, undies and socks, plus the odd cleaning cloth), which is not overloaded, the machine will persist on sudslocking on both the intermediate spin after the wash and 3rd rinse. Now before anybody accuses me of using too much powder, I only use 35ml in this load where I should be using 170ml. I use Ariel the bio and bleach stuff, not that colour care rubbish that doesn’t remove BO. If I use any less I won’t be using any at all. :rolls:

I used to use Persil, a far less soapy powder than Ariel, but that too sudslocks the machine. What am I going to have to do? Us a powder specially for commercial machines, that costs a fortune? Luckily I have access to such a product because of my job.

When I do a load of towels with 35ml it doesn’t sudslock, towels are normally the worst for this, so this happening on the coloured load is inexplicable.

Now my concern, I had to change a set of Hotpoint bearings at two and a half years old because of sudslocking, the foam was forced past the wate seal and knackered the bearings. I modefied the Hotpoint to stop it happening again and it worked. So in two years or so am I going to have knackered bearings again?

It will affect the rinse performance as well, it only spins twice through out the whole rinse cycle (7 rinses), so the last thing I need is the spins to be hampered by foam.

I need someway to stop it doing this, so please can you help.

Thanks.

Oliver.

[kwatt]

Re: As promised, review of the ISEW1607W.

Hi Oliver,

First thing, the concern you have over bearing…

Err, no, not a chance. 😉

Unlike the old Hotpoint (or every other domestic washer I’ve seen as well as a couple of commercials) the 1606 and 1607 use a completely different type of bearing seal that is of a far higher quality. Basically, rather than using a typical oil seal type the 1606/7 use a metal shielded cassette type seal that means that the actual “seal” is pretty much never exposed to the water. It’s very clever and the reason why you’d need to be really going some to ever take out the bearings.

I’ve not tested all the programs on the 1607 as I still have a 1406 in the house but I’ll try to get one up to have a look at more in depth and see what it does when and why.

In the meantime I’ll ask the geeks in Sweden about it then see if I can translate the Swenglish and boffin speak into something intelligible to mere mortals.

There will no doubt be a reason for it though.

Out of curiosity, is that the 60ËšC Eco or the normal 60ËšC program? I only ask because the Eco uses less water to cut down on power use.

K.

[Higher-water-level]

Re: As promised, review of the ISEW1607W.

Hi Ken,

Thank you so very much for the quick reply.

I am really glad about the bearings. 😀

I use the “Colour/White” wash at 60oC and at 95oC for my work clothes, its the only cycle I use. I also have the “High water level” option permanently selected and of course “Super 7 rinse”. Either way its on maximum possible water use.

I can’t get my head round firstly why it doesn’t spin between all the rinses, like every other washer and why the spin doesn’t gradually run up so the pump can clear quick enough to stop it sudslocking at all. Seems daft to me as it is so simple.

It would help if it did a dilution rinse first, but it only does that on a boil wash to cool the water down. Can the machine be laptopped like a Miele to make it do this on all programmes?

Thank you for asking Sweden for me. It is a really good machine, by far the best I have ever had, but is let down by really silly things.

It doesn’t have an Economy programme.

Thanks again Ken,

Oliver.

PS. The Hotpoint was a WF530T, WMA design with Indesit electronics, complete demolishion job to do the bearings, but it never happened again after I removed the eco ball, top half of the filter cage and took my finest electric drill to the filter to allow faster water flow whilst still retaining the rubbish. 😀 .

[kwatt]

Re: As promised, review of the ISEW1607W.

Hi Oliver,

No problem. It’s okay when I’m online and see the posts. 😉

IIRC the spin thing might be a fabric care thing as a lot of clothing these days really doesn’t like it at all. Far too many crazy fabric mixes about now and if they get damaged people often blame the washing machine… then read the care labels!!!

The programs, so far as I am aware, cannot be altered other than adjusting the defaults but I can look at that for you. If they can be it will be through entering a programming mode and using key presses to reprogram, you could probably do it yourself but I’ve not looked at how much can be altered on the 1607.

I couldn’t remember if it had the Eco on it or not, I’m not sat in the office so don’t have access to all the technical info. I do now recall it doesn’t have that though as the Eco was dropped, the functionality built in and the eco ball is now no longer there either.

To be fair though this is the first I’ve come across any comment about wash performance or execution other than, it’s great. 😉

K.

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