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Re: DASA!
Re: my posts today.
Please be sure that none of my comments of today are aimed directly at anyone, except one person, we know who that person is and I hope he reads the forum. If he can’t even be bothered to hit the reply button (and I know he’s read my emailed request) then he deserves all he gets frankly.
I don’t have a problem helping out with the dasa comms thing at all, I just wanted it out in the open.
Dave.
Re: DASA!
I’m not to sure that the membership is getting value for money for it’s £30 K a year. I have to be honest I personally think that at the moment the membership, who let’s face it foot this bill, are not getting 30 pence worth of value from thier contributions.
I am a relativley new to the council and have been a DASA member for only four years but when I joined there was at least orbit being circulated and giving a brief description of the work DASA was undertaking on behalf of the members.
I think Chris is resting on laurels that have long since withered away. Even so I realise and am mindful of the respect, and regard in which he is held by members of the council for starting DASA off in the first place.
Let’s face it the man is not well and he say’s as much himself. This is the main reason that no one want’s to be accused of kicking him when he’s down or be the cause of a relapse of his condition.Meanwhile DASA is dying on it’s knees while we stand around being so gentlmenly waiting for some other sod to plunge the knife in.
In the last couple of DASA meetings I have seen him in a majority of one
Do you remember when he told us that we were all breaking the law of the land by talking to one another about rates and that this would contravene the anti competition laws.As you may recall I asked for a vote of the atendies of that meeting about wether they thought it contravened any law and Chris was the only person in the room that thought it did !
Do you remember how hard several council members had to argue to get access to the DASA website to see if it could be improved in any way.
Gentlemen, someone this out of touch with the membership can not be regarded as an asset, but a liability to any future DASA may have !
Alex has the right idea! especially for the more faint hearted amoungst us,
Inform him that his services will only be required on a consultative basis
as and when required due to his ill health, offer him a much reduced retainer and find someone younger to do the job I’m sure there will be plenty of takers for £30 K per year for a part time job with a few meetings
to attend.
Because make no mistake, it would be far kinder and less embarrising for Chris to do it that way, than to wait for the next AGM and let him be faced with a call for a vote of NO CONFIDENCE from the floor, to which he would have no honourable option, other than to resign.Let’s face it on it’s quietest day UKWHITEGOODS has done more to inform, help and assist members of our trade than DASA has in the last several years mainly due to any new idea’s being strangled at birth by Chris.
Sorry if this offends, but it happens to be the truth as I see it !
Sean
Re: DASA!
Dear Christ Del, you don’t post much but when you do it usually tears someone a new arsehole!
Del wrote:I’m not to sure that the membership is getting value for money for it’s £30 K a year. I have to be honest I personally think that at the moment the membership, who let’s face it foot this bill, are not getting 30 pence worth of value from thier contributions.
No, insofar as I can see DASA offers little or no return for the money, more leaning to the “none” I’m afraid which pains me somewhat as it should be able to offer far more.
Del wrote:I am a relativley new to the council and have been a DASA member for only four years but when I joined there was at least orbit being circulated and giving a brief description of the work DASA was undertaking on behalf of the members.
Yep, Dave and I offered in January to do an “online” Orbit” using UKW as a starting point, or on the DASA site and we’ve had sweet fuck all from our Mr Hayter since it was mooted. Without the information to relay, we can’t relay it. As for you being a new member, four years is long enough to judge the worth of membership and you’re entitled to have your say and your opinion on the association so far as I’m concerned.
Del wrote:I think Chris is resting on laurels that have long since withered away. Even so I realise and am mindful of the respect, and regard in which he is held by members of the council for starting DASA off in the first place.
Agreed. With one exception and it’s a common misconception and one I made as well, Chris did not start DASA, a bunch of guys like us did then employed Chris to run it. He’s just too comfortable where he is.
Del wrote:Let’s face it the man is not well and he say’s as much himself. This is the main reason that no one want’s to be accused of kicking him when he’s down or be the cause of a relapse of his condition.
Yep and over the past twenty years or so I’ve not seen DASA accomplish much at all. Even given the opportunities it has now it lumbers along like a wounded dinosaur.
The team that’s here, in the war room, is a fantastic melting pot of ideas, forward thinking, passionate, commited and genuine people and we’re all involved with DASA to some degree and trying to drag it into this century, we have been for the past year, some like Jason, Mark, Phil and Kevin for longer and look at the results.
Exactly, there is little change to DASA as yet!
To me, DASA’s best resource, the minds that drive it now, is being squandered and thwarted at every turn, it has to change.
Del wrote:Meanwhile DASA is dying on it’s knees while we stand around being so gentlmenly waiting for some other sod to plunge the knife in.
It will happen if change is not evident and soon.
Del wrote:In the last couple of DASA meetings I have seen him in a majority of one
Do you remember when he told us that we were all breaking the law of the land by talking to one another about rates and that this would contravene the anti competition laws.Yes, he is the problem for now, I fully agree.
Del wrote:As you may recall I asked for a vote of the atendies of that meeting about wether they thought it contravened any law and Chris was the only person in the room that thought it did !
Yep, amongst other issues where the dinosaurs sat there voting for other crap and I couldn’t help but draw parrallels with the turkeys voting for a second Christmas.
Del wrote:Do you remember how hard several council members had to argue to get access to the DASA website to see if it could be improved in any way.
Yep, only too well.
Del wrote:Gentlemen, someone this out of touch with the membership can not be regarded as an asset, but a liability to any future DASA may have !
Agreed.
Del wrote:Alex has the right idea! especially for the more faint hearted amoungst us,
Inform him that his services will only be required on a consultative basis
as and when required due to his ill health, offer him a much reduced retainer and find someone younger to do the job I’m sure there will be plenty of takers for £30 K per year for a part time job with a few meetings
to attend.I would have jumped in on that thread and I will if nothing changes soon.
What really riles me is the passion from you guys on this industry yet CH appears not to give a shit and because of that DASA is being left behind.
I think Mark was trying to talk him into a role as you suggest here.
Del wrote:Because make no mistake, it would be far kinder and less embarrising for Chris to do it that way, than to wait for the next AGM and let him be faced with a call for a vote of NO CONFIDENCE from the floor, to which he would have no honourable option, other than to resign.
That’s the danger and if it reaches that stage then it could be both embarassing and potentially damaging as well.
Del wrote:Let’s face it on it’s quietest day UKWHITEGOODS has done more to inform, help and assist members of our trade than DASA has in the last several years mainly due to any new idea’s being strangled at birth by Chris.
I don’t often bum up UKW too much, but I can’t fault the argument here and even I have to admit that it is having a profound impact on the trade as a whole now. TBH it has spiralled out of all proportion to where I thought it would be now which has kinda taken me a bit by surprise and brought forward a few ideas that I’ve had floating about in my head for a while now.
My problem is becomng time to keep control of it all and everything running smoothly, not the site as that’s now second nature, but all the add-ons that I have planned.
The internet has opened a massive door and removed a great many barriers for much of the things we’ve done thus far. We’ve only scratched the surface.
Del wrote:Sorry if this offends, but it happens to be the truth as I see it !
Nope there’s no offence allowed in here, the idea being you can say what you feel openly amongst people you can trust.
K.
Re: DASA!
Well said Del, I think we must have been separated at birth.
Who should be the successor though? it would have to be someone who can work with Chris for the short term. He would have to appear as lax as Chris to begin with to gain his trust, yet show more passion and take ownership of the issues. Once Chris has then been gently sidelined the new person should then be able to “up a gear” and do a bit of ass kicking.
There will be a lot of attributes reuired to take this on, and age is a consideration. if too old, then there will be little time to get the house in order. If too young they won’t take him, seriously. The problem is as I said in the beginning, this could be beyond salvation.
A senior representative from a manufaturer who is an associate member, tells me that they have been watching the DASA situation since Chris had a stroke, and they cannot understand why he is still there.
What we need to avoid is when he passes his mortal coil, we don’t want his epitaph to read, “Here Lyeth DASA who passed away along with the controller who would not bequeath this in his last will & testament.”
Re: DASA!
Okay time for some home truths…
I tried to switch our DASA membership when we went from Loudoun Group Services to NWAR in 1997/8 and this was flatly refused by Chris who said that we had to re-apply and become provisional members once again. Now, given that LGS were the first ever Scottish DASA member in 1977 and DASA was aware of us using NW Appliance Repairs as a trading name for Candy Service for about 6 or more years I found the atitude appalling. Not only that when I requested it was put to council the membership was blocked, no doubt by Walter or Scott at the time or that’s my assumption which would be a purely political move and in their own self-interest and nothing more. So I have little time for the politics played out within DASA at all and, due to that and several other run-ins with Chris over the years, little time for him either.
The only reason I re-subscribed to DASA was that Tom Whatton was doing a phone round almost begging people to join up, pretty desperate really when it comes to that.
Chris is entirely self-motivated and out to protect his own position and salary or that’s the way I see it anyway and seems to have little time for actually doing the job. That’s nothing new, it’s been that way for years and I would say it’s the number one reason for DASA’s decline. Number two is the perception of it being an “old boys club”.
Changing that perception will be one hell of a task, if it’s even possible now and, like Alex and Del, I have grave reservations about it even being possible at this stage to repair the damage.
Change has been tried in that past with various councils and all have been blocked or thwarted in some way by Chris, the end result being what we have inherited today.
The current proposed rise in subscriptions will only serve to further degrade DASA as the perception is that you are getting nothing for the money and, let’s face the facts, that is 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} correct, there is no need for DASA as it operates today as it does none of us any good in real terms, it only costs us money which appears to disappear into a bottomless pit. My contention is that that bottomless pit is in fact Chris’s wage packet and we’re getting virtually fuck all back for that that an admin girl at half the cost could not accomplish.
K.
Re: DASA!
It would appear that there is unanimous feeling here in the war room, that Chris is well past his sell by date. There are however a few questions left to answer:-
A) How many other members of the Dasa comittee/council are of the same opinion ?
B) How many other comittee members are willing to stand up and be counted on, to support his removal from office ?
C) Why has there been no feed back to comittee members of the recent council meeting with Chris informing him of the disatisfaction and disppointment felt by a substantial body of the membership of his role and achievments as director of DASA ?
D) Should this be put on the agenda as a motion for the comittee meeting next week ?
E) What are the protocols laid down in the constitution of dasa ( if any) or financial penelties incured, to achieve the removal of the director ?This may all be academic if the reported anouncement to be made at the comittee meeting next week contains his resignation due to retirement / failing health.
But what if it does’nt ? Do we wait till the next meeting or the AGM or simply vote with our feet !Views please !!
Sean
Re: DASA!
Del wrote:It would appear that there is unanimous feeling here in the war room, that Chris is well past his sell by date. There are however a few questions left to answer:-
Yes, I think Chris has long since had his day and is fact we are way beyond the point of redemtion with him at the helm.
Del wrote:A) How many other members of the Dasa comittee/council are of the same opinion ?
A few, it’s the dinosaurs and those that see Chris as the figurehead of DASA that are the problem now, ousting him will not be an easy task.
Del wrote:B) How many other comittee members are willing to stand up and be counted on, to support his removal from office ?
Count me in! If you ask me it is the only way tht DASA can progress in any way at all.
Del wrote:C) Why has there been no feed back to comittee members of the recent council meeting with Chris informing him of the disatisfaction and disppointment felt by a substantial body of the membership of his role and achievments as director of DASA ?
There is something that went off, but the sentiment I got last night in IRC is that it has done little, if any, good in real terms. In which case I suspect that removal is the only option.
Del wrote:D) Should this be put on the agenda as a motion for the comittee meeting next week ?
The agenda is already in place and published, to change it we need for some gob-shite, preferably an officer but Kevin will do ;), to table a motion and ask that the chair accepts it as soon as the usual crap at the start is over. Then we attack!
I’ve looked over the agenda an TBH it’s mostly a load of shit anyway, you’d be struggling to keep me awake during it and I notice that he’s still on about this training malarky as well as the bloody OFT which he was told on no uncertain terms to drop.
Del wrote:E) What are the protocols laid down in the constitution of dasa ( if any) or financial penelties incured, to achieve the removal of the director ?
No idea, I’m no expert on that.
Del wrote:This may all be academic if the reported anouncement to be made at the comittee meeting next week contains his resignation due to retirement / failing health.
I don’t think so somehow, I seriously doubt that Chris would relinquish the throne that easily, I reckon he’ll fight it all the way. That being the case I can see a vote…with feet.
Del wrote:But what if it does’nt ? Do we wait till the next meeting or the AGM or simply vote with our feet !
No! As Dave said last night we really gave it until the meeting in January to see a change in DASA, there’s been none. I’ve given DASA until this meeting and after that the gloves are off, I will not stand idlely by and watch DASA be a part of the decline of this industry, I care too much to allow that to happen. And, if that means walking away from it then so be it but I will not expect you guys to follow my lead if that is your wish nor am I going to fall out with any of you about it.
Dare I say it…
It has already been spoken about so I guess this is okay, UKW could replace DASA , yes it is far more radical and more forward thinking as well as one hell of a lot more pro-active in many areas. The communication in UKW is superb, way ahead of anything DASA has ever achieved in it’s entire history. I keep getting told that we’ve done more in 6 or 8 months than DASA has accomplished in 20 years! We are tackling the daily issues we all face, not trying to foist silly standards on people that they cannot afford to take up that coudl come but you have to walk before you can run IMO. Standards are fine and I support the idea of them, but there is an inherent problem there, the industry is not paying for us to ahieve those high standards and until they do it is really an unachievable ideal.
I have said to some of you that I have some really radical ideas to fund all this some of them you know about, most you do not. I have ideas that will allow funds to be generated whilst giving services back to members but until the DASA issue is put to bed one way or put any of them into play. That hurdle has to be gotten past first before we go forward and right now, in so far as I can see, DASA is in the way.
K.
Re: DASA!
I’m already voting with my feet. I made it semi public that I’m a dissatisfied customer and I’m questioning the value for money.
To date there is nothing in place to convince me otherwise, the only comforting statements has been from Jason, & I’m sure he’s frustrated by all this and being kept in check out of respect. It is a case of people being too polite with Chris and cannot face the reaility of him gone. Consider one thing, he will be gone anyway in a few years if not sooner, and the job would have been left for the grim reaper. He may as well bow out now with dignity and someone needs to tell him.
I regret having renewed my subscription, however still being on the inside gives me access to see if there will be a change. There is 12 months now for me to be convinced to renew next year.
Alex
Re: DASA!
Alex wrote:He may as well bow out now with dignity and someone needs to tell him.
I believe this will happen on Thursday if all goes to plan 😉
Dave.
Re: DASA!
Guess its time then, its will you resign or be pushed time…….
A vote of no confidence in the director, and if he survives I’m resigning in protest.
At the end of this meeting its him or me, best make the most of the meal and drink on Wednesday evening, might be the last.
tedOkay Del mailed Niel Howieson who is reputedly the person that can hae the agenda changed and I get the impression that Neil’s not too keen on the idea. If you want this on the agenda then you will have to email Neil ASAP to get it on.
Come to think of it, who makes up the agenda anyway as I’ve never been asked for any input on that?
K.
Re: DASA!
Well the deed is done and dusted.
Are we any further forward? I think not given the recent emails floating about th ether.
All I can see is people trying to push their own agenda’s to the fore and ignore the core issue…
What is the point in being in DASA?
K.
The point of being in DASA , thats a very difficult one to answer at present.
Nobody should be promoting their own agenda’s we should all be working together as a cohesive unit.
At present this only appears to be happening with a few of us. We need to wait and see what the outcome of the meeting in a couple of weeks brings and decide from there.
I personally fully agree with the principles of DASA and would hate to see it fail. Likewise, I am not prepared to devote loads of my time, as I know other willing people are, Ted, Ken, Dave, Mark and Del. If we do not get the support of the membership and there input WHATS THE POINT ?
People are too quick to critise but when it comes to action disappear into the wood work
I would put in some work to DASA and I have done, but I can’t do too much or say too much as I’d just be accussed of trying something on to benefit UKW. So I have to watch what I say.
DASA I think does have a place but it is currently too expensive, produces little and offers no return for the investment. Let’s face it all the legal info etc we can get elsewhere.
So, with the legal info thing out the way, what is it?
K.
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