- This topic has 88 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 6 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
shaun67 wrote:Guess I’ll carry on doing all my safety checks whether i need to or not.
Top man! :tup: 😀
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
shaun67 wrote:Oh dear i was only asking if it were any good lol..Bought one any way and for your info LEE8 i only paid £51 for it so i am happy with that .And it does not cause any tripping and takes no time at all to check sockets and hard wired appliances ..
Guess I’ll carry on doing all my safety checks whether i need to or not.
I’ve not told anybody to stop doing any test’s.
My point being its not worth spending a lot of money on kit that is not required when cheaper is available.
You have to draw a line somewhere, you wouldn’t want to go to the Doctors for a flu jab and end up spending the week in hospital having MRI’s etc etc just in case you drop dead the GP gets sued.
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
lee8 wrote:
You have to draw a line somewhere, you wouldn’t want to go to the Doctors for a flu jab and end up spending the week in hospital having MRI’s etc etc just in case you drop dead the GP gets sued.+1
Very common sense approach.
I cut my finger pretty badly when gardening last weekend. Popped in to see GP on Monday to see if he thought it worth a stitch or two. He said it was better to leave it open as if he put in a stitch I’d have to take a course of antibiotics in case the stitch introduced infection. :rolls:
I get loads of free plasters from a charity where I do a bit of volunteering because they have to replace them every six months even though they’re perfectly OK and the first aid kits almost never get used but we have to drag them around everywhere we go.
Mike.Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
Sorry to sound like an idiot… I’ve done PAT testing and passed but I simply used the plug device and press on the insulation tester and see the numbers that should be at least 1mohm, plenty show up as infinity and some falls in the 100 to 200 mohm range. As for earth continuity I use a bog standard multimeter costing £5 and check the resistance of no more than 0.1ohms.
This brings to loop impendment(what’s the hell is that?), please do kindly remind me as I can’t remember? All I know that if the appliance is hard wired with no easy access to test it then you note it down that it cannot be tested, the least you can do is carry out functional checks and ground checks. Think hand dryers in the men’s toilet… Very hard to PAT test it so it comes down to functional checks.
So how do you loop test a hard wired appliance other than sticking one lead to a metal case and the other in a nearby wall socket for earth continuity? Would that be ground test? Water pipes and gas pipes are earthed through sockets (found that out by chance), even the ruddy kitchen sink! Sorry to veer off course but read on…
A brief lecture would be appreciated….
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
The loop test is basically checking the the resistance of the house and suppliers supply to the house ,its an impedance measurement of a complete circuit, so if you had a L to N short, the loop impedance would be the total resistance from the live point of the transformer to the house at the point of the short, then back to the transformer via the Neutral then down to earth at the transformer end. basically what you ensuring is that the resistance is low enough to allow enough current to flow through the complete circuit to trip the mcb in the event of a fault. If the resistance is to high this would cause the trip to delay or fail to trip. This ensures trip work in the correct time to prevent death or fire.
As for how on a built in, I to the resistance test from the nearest socket to the machine then perform loop test from that socket. That way you have a complete earth path.
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
You still do the loop test on the house when an appliance is hard wired, but you can for example have several double socket outlets and many could pass and many could fail all within that kitchen, its happened many times to me that the socket I choose fails, but the one next to it passed.
My point being within the white goods industry there is no formal qualification for us, so we are not actually qualified to pass as safe an electrical installation, we are only deemed competent, unless you hold an approved electricians qualification, therefore the level of responsibility is far less. There is no legal requirement for us as Appliance engineers to test the loop as it would not be recognized as an approved test. :boops:
Its very hit and miss which socket you choose as you could still have an installation with a fault on it, but you’ve passed it, yet an electrician would test the whole installation.
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
madangler1 wrote:As for how on a built in, I to the resistance test from the nearest socket to the machine then perform loop test from that socket. That way you have a complete earth path.
……..also…….
Ovens and hobs etc that are wired to a cooker box with switched outlet – always test from that point ( using the loop testers flying earth lead to ground on the appliance)
Oven and hobs etc hard wired to a switched socket with no outlet – use loop testers (L & N) flying leads direct to the terminal block of the appliance (earth lead to ground on the appliance) 🙂
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
Lee8 is correct in that only electricians are qualified and required to test and interpret earth fault loop resistance and establish whether the electrical installation meets the relevant standard. To do this properly requires knowledge of wiring regulations and the type and rating of protective devices used.
The purpose of loop testing when servicing or repairing domestic appliances is primarily to ensure the health and safety of service personnel while working on the equipment. The relevant HSE Code of Practice is here: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/eis35.pdf
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
Martin wrote:
madangler1 wrote:
As for how on a built in, I to the resistance test from the nearest socket to the machine then perform loop test from that socket. That way you have a complete earth path.……..also…….
Ovens and hobs etc that are wired to a cooker box with switched outlet – always test from that point ( using the loop testers flying earth lead to ground on the appliance)
Oven and hobs etc hard wired to a switched socket with no outlet – use loop testers (L & N) flying leads direct to the terminal block of the appliance (earth lead to ground on the appliance) 🙂
This is the way i loop test as well on hard wired appliances (as Martin says above).Needed a new tester so ended up with the one i mentioned .Pretty clear to understand ,tests loop impedance, correct mains voltage (shows if to low or to high ), correct wiring, correct polarity .Seems to do as it says on the tin so to speak .I understand where Lee8 is coming from but it is always best to make sure that the appliance you are working on is safe before and after you have looked at any appliance (not saying that Lee8 is suggesting we should not do this just saying i personally feel if we are competent enough to work on an appliance then we should cover all our bases so hopefully nothing does go wrong ).
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
I find it incredible that in this thread we have the OP asking for assistance as he felt the obvious need for loop tester info. And on the other hand others that choose to tell use that loop testing is not obligatory. Yes, we get your point guys but leave it out. 99{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of field service engineers in this game have’nt even heard of Loop Testers or Megger for that matter never mind have the foresight to use them on a daily basis. 😐
I did a downloadable PDF file on how to use a Megger, was gonna follow up and expand on how to use a Loop Tester and am part way to completing it…but sod it…why should I?
It’ll end up in the public domain anyway. :rolls:
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
This is the problem with any industry where anyone from any background can just start trading. I spent my early years as a sparky, then ended up doing contract work for a large AV company then fell into appliances and got a jop working for one of the manufactures as that’s the way my life went.
The simple fact is is not a legal requirement but I know when I leave the customer IF there is a problem I have done every thing reasonable to make sure everything is safe.
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
It goes back to my point in a previous thread, Appliance Repair peeps are not Engineers, at best their Technicians and the skill level required is low and the responsibility is also low, which is why the govt does not bother to regulate us and that most of the brand service managers don’t care if a person does a test or not, as long as the box is ticked and a reading is placed, basically enough to satisfy the insurance and lawyers should the brown stuff meet the fan, then its the Tech fault should it be proved the appliance was a fault when he left and if it could have be identified by the person.
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
Martin wrote:I find it incredible that in this thread we have the OP asking for assistance as he felt the obvious need for loop tester info. And on the other hand others that choose to tell use that loop testing is not obligatory. Yes, we get your point guys but leave it out. 99{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of field service engineers in this game have’nt even heard of Loop Testers or Megger for that matter never mind have the foresight to use them on a daily basis. 😐
I did a downloadable PDF file on how to use a Megger, was gonna follow up and expand on how to use a Loop Tester and am part way to completing it…but sod it…why should I?
It’ll end up in the public domain anyway. :rolls:I agree here with Martin .I started this thread to see if this loop tester was any good as i have an avo Megger LT 5 Digital Loop Tester but it causes the RCD to trip when loop testing (i also have the plug in martindale tester) but wanted an all in one to use on hardwired appliances as well as just sockets when performing a loop test . .Now not sure why it ended up in a debate about whether or not we have to do this or if spending x amount is a waste of money :rolls: ! All i can say is after using my new loop tester it does what i wanted (similar to the avo but no tripping and more tests in just one instrument )and is easy enough to use so i am happy with it.
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
Martin wrote:
I did a downloadable PDF file on how to use a Megger, was gonna follow up and expand on how to use a Loop Tester and am part way to completing it…but sod it…why should I?It’ll end up in the public domain anyway. :rolls:
What a shame! I found your PDF file useful and I used it to refresh my memory and would have hoped that you would expand it on a Loop Tester so that I can use it for future references. Perhaps I should PM and give you my email address for your wonderful PDF file on a loop tester?
I recall using the loop tester years ago and I struggled to comprehend on how it was relevant for hard wired appliances as the result is open for interepretations and there’s no way of deciphering the result on the appliance in question without having previously enrolled at Bletchley Hall.
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
I also think it’s a shame as it seems some will benefit from knowing how to use a loop tester correctly and i was surprised at how many were not doing an insulation test or even have one !! and the PDF you created Martin was excellent .I guess i am fortunate to attend courses that showed me how to use an insulation tester ,loop tester and multimeter correctly (i already had knowledge how to use a multimeter as i used to and still do play about with electronics now and again) .I have picked up some very good tips on this forum and i even learned the trick using the clamp meter using an extension lead with the core wires showing from that very PDF you created Martin.(some think i was not shown on any of the courses i went on 😉 ).Hope you do change your mind as there are lots of folks on here that would use the tips you have used from all of your experience’s over the years.
Shaun
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.