- This topic has 88 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 6 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
think martin should do pdf on loop testing as by sounds of it be quite handy for lot of people on here not doing tests or knowing how to, if put to vote think it get high response.
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
A general guide to loop testing is here: http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/8.6.2.htm
Tailored to electricians rather than service engineers, but useful background anyway.
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
Yes seen the link before but I’d rather have something more realistic and relevant for service engineers. I think I will look up on youtube…
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
I agree 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}, and hope Martin is encouraged to continue his endeavour.
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
Every tester I’ve ever had has had instructions on how to use it, so I see no point in placing instructions on here unless its for people who don’t know how to use one, then you have to begin asking if someone needs instructions should they be let loose without some kind of training, i Doubt Mr Smith would be happy that there system was deemed dangerous by someone who read some instructions on a web forum, by a stranger on how to use a piece of safety test equipment they never seen or understood before hand.
Is it only me than can see the irony in this.
We are all meant to be competent aren’t we, surely being deemed Electrically competent would include the use of and understanding of basic electrics and test equipment.
Seems not.
I’m starting to wonder how many in our industry have no idea of Electrical principles never mind the complicated stuff. 🙁
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
lee8 wrote:Is it only me than can see the irony in this.
It’s you and I sense your usual chance to wind people up coming on here.
lee8 wrote:We are all meant to be competent aren’t we, surely being deemed Electrically competent would include the use of and understanding of basic electrics and test equipment……….Seems not.
In your parallel universe then yes perhaps. For the rest of us we are learning all the while and those that seek help find it here on UKW by asking for advice from those proficient enough to offer it.
lee8 wrote:I’m starting to wonder how many in our industry have no idea of Electrical principles never mind the complicated stuff. 🙁
I do hope it doesn’t keep you awake at night.
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
I sort of agree with Lee8, but as there is no recognised training scheme and qualification on all aspects of this industry then the only way to get skilled is to work for someone or ask your peers for help and advice, and that is what this forums all about, at least those less skilled but frightened to ask can also read the help posts and this in turn will further the skills and knowledge which has got to be a good thing.
Sent from my iPhone
http://www.kitchenkitsw.comRe: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
The main reason i wanted a new loop tester was because i had done the ck1 cooker course and wanted to do away with my avo LT5 loop tester (which caused rcds to trip) and my martindale plug in tester for an all in one tester , as i would be using the separate test leads for loop testing hard wired appliances mainly cookers as mentioned in one of my posts.
Now here is where i agree and disagree with Lee8 ..I agree that when you buy test equipment you should be competent enough to be able to use the said equipment and understand the included instructions properly.
But here is where i disagree with Lee8 .I was fortunate to have been trained on using test equipment from the courses i attended.But it seems some people on here have not had that specific training using a loop tester with the separate test leads for hard wired appliances and only have the plug in type loop tester without the separate leads ,but are working on appliances and are doing there best to be safe and also leave the appliance safe.
The loop tester i bought recently does include the instructions on how to use it and is straight forward to use after i had read it.
When i first made my post i did not see an instruction manual on the website i first linked in my opening post so was not sure if it was the right tester i was after.I did a further search and found a site which allowed me to read the instruction manual on-line before i purchased it.I then realised it was similar to how i used my LT5 apart from it having extra tests built in, so i knew it would be ok for me and easy enough to use .
So having a “how to loop test correctly write up” similar to what Martin did with his “use of the clamp meter” and “insulation test” pdf would help some who were not trained with these specific testers. if they do buy one then they will have an idea how to use it correctly because not all test equipment manuals are straight forward if you don’t understand how to do it correctly in the first place .If everyone had the right training then there would be no need for a “how to” but this is not the case so any help is a good thing don’t you agree ??
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
Shaun67 made a lot of valid points. I was one of Graham Dixon’s students and I am sure there are many on this forum were one of his students too.
Things have moved on so much over the last 4 years and with new testing equipments coming out promising the earth to solve our crises. I did remember asking Graham about the various tester and I think the reply was the multimeter would do 95{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of your job and the insulation tester is a very small part of the job but also a very important part due to time saving, cost saving as well the safety factor.
But as for loop tester, I did the training and like you said trips the fuse box, I can’t see myself going around people houses and asking them if they would mind if I trip their fuse boxes. Hard wired appliances are very common and it would be handy to have something to test it without putting myself and the customer at risk, let alone tripping the fuse box. I would like to know more about what you found out and how it worked on your job.
More over to the clamp meter, well that’s another thing and I recalled ever needed one just once that was for seeing if the heater works on the dishwasher but 99{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of the time I never did needed it. Unless someone on the forum will persuade me why should I need a clamp meter?
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
Loop testers
twicknix wrote: new testing equipments coming out promising the earth
Very good, very good. :snigger:
Mike.Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
I believe that everyone should do loop tests. They are not difficult only take minutes to do and you can sleep easy at night knowing you done the best you could to ensure everything was correctly tested. My only problem is how do you know you are getting the correct results with out cross referencing it against the regs book?? And this is where the trouble is for most people they have a rough idea what to do. To do it properly you have got to see what incoming earth is tt, tnc,tncs system etc what bs number is on the breaker and rcd or rccb and work out roughly the size of the circuit what the circuit is ring or radial size of cable etc to know what your results are telling you otherwise you have not tested it correctly because all those factors affect the loop test. And that is not even half the tests an electrician does on an installation before people start. You can not just make up a rough figure of say 1.4 and that is it for any circuit anywhere you could be advising your customers totally wrong which i know is not your intention but that’s the truth.
We have to be deemed competent? how do you deem competency In law? And prove that you are indeed competent, if you are only doing half the test with an estimate of what you think the results should be?? Would you think that is competent?
Remember you are the ones who are deeming yourselves competent enough to tell your customer that the circuit is safe and as lay men they think you are the experts on the subject.
It is yet again another minefield.
But i do take my hat off to you all at least you are trying which is a a lot more then most do.
Clamp meters and meggars use them all day every day, They show you with a quick ohms law calculation that the current draw etc is working roughly right and tell you very quickly that the circuit is heating etc without waiting around.Phil
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
Phil makes some really good points here regarding TN-C-S TT TN-S systems .Graham Dixon did cover these when i did the dixon training a couple of years back and the readings we should expect to get on which ever system we came across.These were also part of the course handouts for us to refer to once we had left the course.Also we learned all about ohms law etc and how to make calculations to aid fault finding.
Also the internet is a great resource to keep up with the current regs and any info that may be needed to keep you up to date .I did more reading up on loop testing hard wired appliances when i knew i would be doing the ck1 cooker course ,i also got myself up to speed applying diversity and the right cable sizes and consumer units etc for cooker installations prior to attending the cooker course.
I also agree that an electrician will do more tests on circuits than a domestic appliance engineer would but if you understand the correct readings of the circuit you are working on then if that reading seems way off the mark then at least it can be brought to the attention of the customer.Then that would be electrician territory.Some of the test equipment out there is easy enough to use if you look for it and will give you clear readouts that are easy to understand and does the calculations for you .
But like Phil says you need to know the system you are working on first.
I also find the clamp meter invaluable for testing as it makes life alot easier and would not be without one now especially for built in appliances (my other multimeter) is redundant now and that’s thanks to Martin 😉 Also Graham dixon said the insulation tester was a must have when i attended his course ,he said it was as much important as the multimeter for us to identify faults.That’s why it was my first purchase when i got home.
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
As per recent post, I noticed that Shaun67 is using the clamp meter, perhaps you might like to share your experiences and show me how to use it as I never felt the need to use it with the exception of the dishwasher heater. I used a different method such as infra red temp probe to test the water temperature (of course after I have carried out the insulation test). Can the clamp meter work without plugging into the mains? If I understood this right, use the clamp meter together with the insulation tester, lets say clamp the meter onto a heater wire then press the insulation tester and then you should get the reading from the clamp to see if the heater is sound? I may have misunderstood it which was probably why I never used it!
Most built in appliances have plugs that are easy to access to, usually in the next cupboard when you have cleared all the cleaning bottles and carrier bags. There have been several incidents where the plug was located right behind the appliance with no means of isolation other than the fusebox. Some are easily isolated from the kitchen worktop on the wall after figuring out which was the switch for the appliance in question.
I am interested to see how you did the loop testing on those appliances, perhaps you may wish to draw a picture and scan it then PM me? I will have have a look at it and hopefully get what you are coming from. Like yourself Shaun67, I am too in the position of diversifying possibly into refurbishing appliances in addition with the usual repair work and I think the clamp meter could be a valuable tool so I would welcome your input (training). 🙂
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
twicknix wrote:As per recent post, I noticed that Shaun67 is using the clamp meter, perhaps you might like to share your experiences and show me how to use it
Then do just CLICK HERE 😀
Re: Does anyone use this loop tester info required
good info Martin, i personly now use a plugin watt/amp meter for the ones i can gain access to the plug top, use it for checking heaters and the wattage of fridge freezers on forced defrost, the clamp meter is just used now and then, but please keep on with the info as if is usefull to those who are willing to learn. 😉
Bob.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.