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Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
Guys, I’ve explained it all and told you that policy numbers etc. can quite happily be supplied. Details of the broker and insurer are there and you are more than free to contact them as we have operated within their terms.
If you look at all the literature for the 1607 there is not one mention, anywhere, that there is an insurance backed warranty product on it.
I accept that there were some remnants of old advertising with mention of the insurance on it but they have, so far as I am aware, all been removed. Where pointed out when missed, they have been removed immediately.
No-one is taking this into any sort of legal thing at all, unless that’s your intent mbooth?
The fact is, the 1607 has NEVER been advertised as being sold with an insured warranty. At no point has this been the case or inferred to be the case.
It is also completely untrue to state that you “no cover until a separate escrow fund is set up” as you do, it’s just not insurance backed.
The MD of ISE has offered to refund you fully and pick up the machine if you are dissatisfied with this and I really, truly fail to see what else you want anyone to do.
K.
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
I completely disagree with you Kwatt.
The New ISE 10 1607W has been portrayed as having this Insurance backed warranty and you have done nothing to put this right.
In your brochure I again quoteUnlike other manufacturers when you buy an ISE appliance
our guarantees are underwritten by AXA which we link to
the serial number of your machine. This means no matter
what happens to us in the future your guarantee is valid
and protected.You have grouped any of your products into this, even future ones.
You are completely missing the point here and your reputation is taking a massive hit, not sure of what other people this about this?
I want you to survive but I also want reassurance that my 1607w is covered to what I thought I was buying. and that I have value for money.
I was also considering the ISE10 tumble dryer, and now off my list!
by your comment on
No-one is taking this into any sort of legal thing at all, unless that’s your intent mbooth?
I hoped it would not have come anywhere near to that, as you would want to make all you customers happy. and restore your reputation, but feel your telling me that’s the only way this will be solved!
Sorry do not like the tone on that!Is it too much too asked for what I thought I was buying?
It is not our fault you company policy changed but you neglected to inform us.I’m sorry but the brochure you are quoting from is an old one with delisted products in it. The comment does not apply to the current range. That quote does not apply to the current range at all, in any way.
It related to the products in that publication, quite correct. But none of those products are now available for sale and have not been for some months.
I’m sorry, you mentioned legal stuff, not me. I only asked if that was your intent in some manner as I don’t understand what you’re getting at with it.
The fact is that the warranty is provided for by provision on all new products and not through an insured scheme. All previous machines are insurance backed warranties.
With changes in the financial sector this was no longer viable to maintain.
Future provision will be protected and, as soon as the details are finalised they will be available. This will be by way of funds held in trust by a major financial institution outside of ISE.
I truly believe that the questions asked have been fully answered and a method of remedy provided, several times over.
K.
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
mbooth, the new washer doesn’t have an insurance backed warranty the old one did, I can accept that and they have offered to refund you, what more can they do? Not ideal but it is what it is.
I don’t think they were intentionally mis-selling they just were a behind in updating all literature (and probably trying very hard to get an alternaitive offer from an insurer at reasonable terms). I do agree though that until this thread any one would have reasonably assumed there was an Axa backed warranty, and to not be told otherwise when buying is a pretty poor show. But I stand by the comment that if the buyers of the old ISE10 have not had their insurance details, they should get them.
Personally, I have put delivery of my ISE10 tonight on hold for now and will think about how I proceed.
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
Your right Jaunty, we know that now after we both purchased our machines.
but this was after the contract has been formed, not before!
I believe we both are still due the AXA warranty and so is anyone who still buy’s as not everyone reads these forums, until it clearly states in all pages & documents on the ISE website the newer models are excluded from this and how they are covered, more people will buy thinking what we did full AXA insurance backed warranty.how is that right for the consumer?
I just had a look and it is still all over the ISE website.
Example: If I brought a 2010 reg car from freds local garage and he advertised on his website all his cars came with a 10 year insurance backed parts & labour warranty from AXA, you paid and drove off in it. then you receive you your document through the post but from Freds Garage co, no mention of AXA or insurance. you call and told !
“oh that’s only on 2009 model’s not 2010, it’s a new escrow fund and totaly safe!”
But no mention of this on his website company documents
What would you do? (I think it would be I want my warranty?)You yourself Jaunty could still accept the machine, as you brought under this premise and formed the contract, or were you told before you paid?
I think I may have to go down more official channels now in ISE If someone could provide me with this, as like the machine want to keep, but want the insurance backed warranty!
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
They have not got and so can not offer you an insurance backed warranty. Whatever you say, they can’t magic you up one. So either get a refund as offered, or accept it as is. I am not sure why you want to make life hard for yourself?
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
mbooth wrote:I believe we both are still due the AXA warranty
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding your point, but you appear to be expecting more than the advertising promises.
In the case of the previous models, the advertising is very clear that ISE purchase the insurance policy that it used to back up the 10 year parts and labour warranty.
In the case of the current models, the advertising just says that ISE provide a 10 year parts and labour warranty without explaining how the financial side works.
In both cases it is clear that ISE that provides the warranty; the mechanisms by which they arrange funds to be available to honour that warranty are entirely their own.
Asking exactly how each scheme is intended to operate should ISE cease trading is a good question, but that’s a subtly different from your demands.
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
mbooth I do have sympathy with you because the only ISE brochure available and which is still online says amongst other things the following:
“Our insurance backed guarantees
The aftermath of the financial crisis of 2008 has made people very wary of the implications of companies
going out of business.
In the appliance industry, the demise of companies like MFI, Sovereign and notably Servis among
many others has left consumers with nowhere to go if their appliances broke down under guarantee
as the manufacturer no longer exists.
When we established ISE we were very conscious of people would not trust our long guarantees. To
reassure people we set up a system so that when an ISE machine is sold, the installing agent registers
the serial number and other details with us. We then purchase a guarantee from AXA via an FSA
registered broker to cover that appliance. No other manufacturer operates this way.
This means that if the unthinkable were to happen, although incredibly unlikely and, we ceased trading
the insurer nominates an alternative parts distributor to deal with the factories who make our
machines. The local service agent continues to do any required repair work and continues to be paid
under the terms of the guarantee.
And, unlike many other schemes, our warranty is valid should the original retailer go out of business
as all our machines are covered by insurance.
Rare in the appliance industry, where many extended warranties are not underwritten by insurers at
all and manufacturers guarantees are only valid if the manufacturer keeps trading.
Don’t be fooled by the fact the brand on the machine is a long established household name. When
Servis UK got into financial difficulties in 2008 the bail out put together by the Italian government
to save the factories did not filter through to Servis UK, who folded leaving their customers with no
point of recompense.
With ISE that cannot happen.”So unless you were told otherwise you would read this, and it would be reasonable to assume that any new model would also have this cover. It doesn’t though make it any easier to get the cover, as it is not available to ISE. So you have been given an option of a refund. I have not yet paid and have to decide if I wish to proceed. I love the machine and the ethos of the company.
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
AnotherGareth, can you provide please provide me with the links to these differences? as this depends on where you saw the information and where I brought it from and what I was told.
I only had reference from the http://www.iseappliances.co.uk/
and emailed the installers in my area.I am more worried now about other people buying and thinking the same as myself.
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
mbooth wrote:I only had reference from the http://www.iseappliances.co.uk/ and emailed the installers in my area.
My answer is in two parts …
I started at the ISE Appliances website but then I wasn’t able to find an installer that covered my area so I sent an email to ISE to ask how to purchase. They told me I could buy directly off the UK Whitegoods website.
When I went to these pages I realised that the machines listed on the ISE Appliances website are not current. Careful reading of the descriptions on the UK Whitegoods website told me that ISE provide the warranty, and the other details can easily be inferred as well.
What isn’t clear is how the schemes operate in the event of ISE ceasing to trade. Perhaps I’m overly sanguine but since I’ve never been convinced that warranties for white goods are worth very much, I didn’t put any effort into investigating that aspect of the purchase. Instead I was persuaded by comments from those who’d bought the previous range.
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
AnotherGareth wrote: Perhaps I’m overly sanguine but since I’ve never been convinced that warranties for white goods are worth very much, I didn’t put any effort into investigating that aspect of the purchase. Instead I was persuaded by comments from those who’d bought the previous range.
😀 good to read. I am pretty certain the new ISE10 is the best machine I can get for the money. I just need to decide if I am happy with the current basis, or go for (say) a Miele with their 10 year warranty. I guess yours is washing fine?
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
Well, I shall keep following this thread with interest.
I can only speak for myself and say that when I bought the ISE 10 the 10 year solid guarantee formed a large part of my decision to purchase. This was more important to me as, although I was sold on the ideals of the ISE brand, it was clearly a new brand and seemed more risky than, for example, Miele. The insurance backed guarantee swung it, in that in the event of a failure of ISE as a business my guarantee was independent of ISE trading: that is a separate insurance policy was purchased as part of the cost of buying.
I’m happy to be told that my machine is, in fact, covered as advertised.
However, the explanations regarding the insurance policy, the lack of documents and the seeming inability to even want to talk about the terms of the cover do worry me.
Why should I worry about the insurance policy, I hear you ask? My contract is with the supplier (and ISE). Well, we are told that the insurer is not paying out in a proportion of claims made by ISE itself! This must mean increased machine repair costs which has to be born by ISE. ISE itself appears surprised by the insurers unwillingness to pay out. I therefore ask is the insurance backed warranty which ISE has arranged with AXA what they thought they had bought? The answer seems clearly to be “no” as ISE has given up with the policy for new products. The reason given is vastly increasing premiums, this could actually be for many reasons – one of which could be larger than expected claims on ISE machines. It raises the question are they as good as we’re told??
I still think some written proof of insurance backed warranty along with a unique reference for each individual customer who bought one of the old ISE10’s does not seem an unreasonable request. Perhaps I’m wrong and unreasonable but it seems such a basic request, as I’ve said before I queried why it didn’t come at the time.
The answer that people can write to ISE and request their insurance number just seems a little bit poor when you consider basic customer care. I get the impression that ISE sees it as a bit “narky” to want sight of paperwork regarding the insurance backed warranty which I have no doubt played a large part in many customer’s decisons to purchase. I don’t think it is, irespective of the replies I’ve seen.
I’ve been recommending ISE left right and centre. Currently I reserve judgement, the uncertainty and lack of clarity around the issues discussed trouble me a little. It would seem so easy to produce a master copy of the insurance policy along with details of how to obtain proof of individual cover, and I can’t understand (for business reasons, if nothing else) why ISE would not produce it to allay consumer anxiety.
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
Hi,
The original insurance cover isn’t in the form of a policy document as such. It is a commercial contract insurance across a swathe of products, not just the ISE10, it also covers the ISE2 and 5 ranges as well.
As I have explained several times, this means that it does not allow for individual policies to be produced as you’d get for your car insurance as it’s a “bulk” deal which is a commercial contract. On commercial arrangements like this policy documents are not produced and never have been produced, ever.
ISE issued confirmation of registration and warranty cover for every single registered appliance due to this and this was at the behest of the insurers.
ISE cannot produce what does not exist.
On the terms of cover, they have been explained and, haven’t changed.
Essentially if it’s electrical or mechanical and breaks through wear and tear then it’s covered. Simple.
There’s no unwillingness to talk about the cover at all, quite the contrary, there are several weighty replies explaining it.
What you have picked up on is the fact that a lot of so-called “service calls” are not actual calls.
What happens is that people often get a new machine and don’t know how to work it, don’t read the manual, use too much or too little detergent, overload, underload, wash crazy things or try to and so on. These are not actual failures of the machine at all and, this happens across all brands, not just ISE.
If you read virtually any warranty terms from any manufacturer you like you will find that these failures are not covered and, if it is found to be something along these lines, including installation issues, that they are chargeable to the user to put right.
Now, irrespective of whether or not people think that’s fair, that’s the way things are.
It’s sort of like, if you drive a brand new car out the showroom and proceed to fill your new diesel car with unleaded the manufacturer will charge you to put it right. Same thing, different industry.
What happened with ISE was that the machines were insured from point of registration and, I suppose naively in some ways, ISE assumed that they were then covered, all liability for service negated, job done.
But, then they find that the insurer also won’t cover all these faults that aren’t really faults so, not only does ISE have to pay the premium to the insurer for cover that is (in ISE’s opinion disproportionate to the level of failures) but it also has to pick up the tab for all the non-faults as well.
ISE has not gone back and charged people for these rejections as, it happens months later and it isn’t exactly good customer service to do so.
Approximately 30-40{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}+ of all service calls ever reported on ISE10 range machines are non-faults. The actual failure rate is incredibly low.
On commercial premises that rises to 90{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}+ of reported faults are misuse, abuse and so on as people in domestic homes tend to look after the machines a lot better (generally) and do read instructions to try to troubleshoot themselves.
But you have to ask, what’s the point of paying an insurance company a premium to cover a liability and then have to pay to resolve the issue anyway?
K.
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
Sorry Kwatt, but for the ISE10 ISE1606W & ISE CD60W purchasers who it is in no doubt bought on the understanding that they had an insurance backed warranty you are either missing/avoiding/obfuscating the point.
Why don’t you get the insurance broker that earned money placing the warranty insurance to clearly explain the warranty cover, who it is with, who is covered, how they prove they are covered, and how to make a claim (and against who) should ISE fail?
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
The offer of having the machine picked up and your money refunded is enough surely.
My only ‘gripe’ here would be that the information was not readily available at the time of purchase of the new 1607, but that was an unfortunate occurrence rather than a deliberate action. Maybe withholding the sale of the new machine until the website was up and running would have been the only way to avoid all this bad feeeling for ise but many people would not have been able to wait for this. And another thing how many times do you actually get the chance to speak to the real people involved in the business you are purchasing from, answer me that! And how many companies will give you every detail of everything they claim about their products or warranties/guarantees etc.
My 1607 will be here next thursday from my local supplier and i will not be returning it or cancelling my order. I will hope that i will get some sort of certificate now that ise are ‘insuring’ the machines themselves, that would be nice. But i have seen many items, mine, friends and relatives products that say 2 or whatever years of guarantee and i have not really seen any proof of this! The fact the ise are setting up a seperate ‘account’ for the warranties of their products is far better than most, if not all, other companies, who if go bust their customers get sod all!
There are some rather rude, for want of a better word, comments on here which are uncalled for, ise have explained their position so if you dont like it then ‘bail out!’
I think ise have been very reasonable in being available to answer questions, yes customers should have their queries/worries answered but i think ise have done that, where other companies would not have!
I for one am happy to do business with ise and would do again as this was an error not a deliberate move.
Best wishes to ise, i hope they go from strength to strength and not just for the next 10 years!!! 😆
quickwash :plug:
PS i remember when i pm’d ken only a short while before the new 1607 went on sale he told me that the machines would have to go up by at least £100 which proves to me what he says on here about the insurance backed warranty price increase. 🙂
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