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Re: I should cocoa!
DrDill wrote:BUT my point is this:- would you write an estimate for a repair, when you havent even seen the machine, that will then be used by an insurance company as a basis of an action regarding the quality of a machine, bearing in mind it could find its way in to a court action or in the hands of Trading Standards???? And also charge for it.
I’m pleased that your question has now reverted more pertinently toward my original post. And I’m delighted also that you continue to contribute to this thread in spite of stating earlier that it would be your last post on the subject…welcome back.:D
Now, where was I? Oh yes, the guy from Wokingham and his duff machine. He did say that his insurance company would NOT pay to have a report done on the machine but would nonetheless act on any independent written report and then argue the toss with the manufacturers over it. And ‘Wokingham man’ was well up for getting that written report AND paying for it. His only proviso was that he wanted it ASAP (that day or sooner). Hence why Mike (tongue in cheek though mind.) ‘suggested’ the email option.
So, taking the facts into account it would’nt be too unrealistic to suppose that, in this specific case, little harm would come of such a proposal. And I could have grabbed his card details over the phone to pay for my ‘services’. Made out a hand written report stating Make, Model, Serial number (with Wokingham mans help) as follows:
Indesit W????, Serial No ????
To call and inspect machine and note that drum bearings have collapsed, black oil and rust marks everywhere. Machine unsafe to continue using. Requires new Tub and Drum Assembly.
Labour and parts = £?????Photocopy the written invoice and attached to email, and post hand written report to Wokingham man next day…..job done!
No come-back as I can see either TBH, I fail to see how court action or Trading Standards would ever come into the equation…..?
Another example that goes on every day, nationwide: –
GP’s write out 7 day sick notes to their patients that claim, over the phone, to have the ‘Winter vomiting bug’. They don’t see their patient, patient gets someone to pick up the form from the surgery. 7 days off work….no come-back…off to Tenerife to recover! 8)
DrDill, being as you are a doctor, cannot fail to realise that this goes on 24/7/365. Let me be clear, I don’t condone it, but it happens and in the case of Wokingham man, I declined my services there and then. And am around £60 poorer mind you, but hey, that’s just my business ethics getting the better of me once again! 8)
Re: I should cocoa!
Indesit W????, Serial No ????
To call and inspect machine and note that drum bearings have collapsed, black oil and rust marks everywhere. Machine unsafe to continue using. Requires new Tub and Drum Assembly.
Labour and parts = £?????First part in bold would be a complete lie, so lots of harm done as no matter how you dress it up its a lie! As its a lie it wouldnt sit well in a court or with trading standards, again sorry if this bothers people but i did not write the above post, i am mearly commenting on it.
Re: I should cocoa!
DrDill wrote:First part in bold would be a complete lie
Of course it is Doc, no-one here is condoning it either. It’s wrong BUT it happens furthermore it’s pretty darn bulletproof to boot, truth be known.
Let it be known that all of the contributors to this thread, including both you and me, are as honest as the day is long. And the good news is that, as of today, those days are getting l-o-n-g-e-r……! 😉
Re: I should cocoa!
Of course it is Doc, no-one here is condoning it either.
If think that is incorrect also, maybe you should reread the posts.
Re: I should cocoa!
DrDill wrote:If think that is incorrect also, maybe you should reread the posts.
Thanks for the suggestion but I think I’ve gained enough input from this thread enough to realise the general consensus of opinion.
It would have been nice though if you had answered all of the questions kwatt asked of you being as you suggested at some stage he was “I think that just sometimes you should just answer some questions instaed (sic) of sitting on the fence”[un-quote]
Re: I should cocoa!
gandh1 wrote::popcorn:
i like the fact im now a belittler, when my post was actually a serious quandry that was up for discussion
There’s just so much going on in this thread. I have quite a few things I haven’t said yet. I just don’t know where to start. I guess I’ll ease myself back into it by joining in this part of the discussion.
You gave us four options to choose from, which really made the game a bit too confusing for my already befuddled mind. None of the options really appealed to me much and, like the other two posters who have taken the trouble to answer (if I counted correctly), I would give them my reasons for thinking that the thing was not worth pouring £25 into, let alone £50. If they insisted they must have it done, (which I suppose might be possible if they had no more than £25 to spend but would perhaps be in line for an emergency loan from DSS next week) I would go ahead and do the job as cheaply as possible, perhaps reducing my charges if it didn’t take long and if they were nice folks.
I bet that is what you’d do too, bud!
Mike.Re: I should cocoa!
DrDill wrote:
To call and inspectyou could ring tenant and listen to it, you could loosely claim that the noise was unmistably bearing failure 💡
Re: I should cocoa!
DrDill wrote:
leavemetogetonwithit wrote:
I was joking; sort of.
But in reality, in such circumstances, I think I would risk putting in an estimate, quote even, for the cost of bearings + inner drum replacement (or welded drum if appropriate). I don’t think the insurance company would be very likely to take me to court, even if they did bother subsequently getting a second opinion and I turned out to be wrong.
The only way I would consider I had come unstuck is if they asked me to do the b****y job! But then I could just say I was too busy!
Mike.I think YOU have stated that you would give an insurance estimate with out seeing the appliance!!
I dont make accusations or assumptions, i am making my comments on what others have wrote and YOU wrote the above not me! And by the same token, dont write things on a forum that is read by 1000 odd people if you dont want any one to respond!! IT WORKS BOTH WAYS.Oh and a small point, its only you that has taken offence, why is that?
Dealing with your last point first:- Why is it only me that has taken offence?
I don’t know, I had the impression others such as gandh1 were slightly unhappy with some of the things you said.gandh1 wrote:i like the fact im now a belittler, when my post was actually a serious quandry that was up for discussion
But I’ve been wondering why we haven’t seen lee8 in this thread. I assumed your critcisms of people who suggest robbing rich folks’ sump hoses to give to the poor in Africa would have got his back up! I guess he’s either on holiday or just too busy to log in at the moment. 😛
Anyway, you really haven’t defended yourself very well. All you’ve done is rattled off the same old assertions about how honest you are and about how dishonest some of the rest of us (no names, just in case anyone should accuse you of defamation) are, without any sort of evidence that would not be thrown out of any court; or for that matter out of any pub!
Please, please, please give Trading Standards a ring at your earliest opportunity. Send them a copy of the posts of mine that you object to and get them on my back. I much prefer dealing with rational people!Now, refreshing and renewing this page, I see gandh1 has come in with a comment which anticipates where my original train of thought had been bound.
I will now start another post to talk about that, which is far more interesting to me.
Mike.Re: I should cocoa!
OK, I would like to make some suggestions to insurance companies as to how they should be running their businesses!
What does that have to do with us?
Well, when it comes to estimating the likely cost of a repair to, for example, a cheap Indesit washing machine which is leaving black marks on clothes and making a noise like a jet engine, there is really no need to involve anyone, insurance company or client, in the expense of dragging an engineer out to put his name on a piece of paper that just says what we all know already with a 90{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} level of certainty.
It can all be done over the phone or by e-mail.
The only reasons I can see for a visit would be:
a) to establish that the customer was not giving a false account.
b) in cases where the customer was not competent to answer a few simple questions about the machine; through infirmity or age perhaps.In case a)
This could be overcome in many cases by utilising the benefits of modern technology. Many customers can take a picture or a video clip and send it to the engineer. The engineer can specify how this is to be done, over the phone or by sending pre-recorded video instruction clips over the internet, if necessary. In this country, IMO, 90{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} or more of the population are too honest to bother trying to scam an insurance company.
The proportion of scrupulously honest engineers is probably about that too. So the insurance company need not fear being ripped off. Indeed the money they would save, and the consequently lower premiums they’d need to charge, would more than compensate for the odd scammer that slipped through the checking mechanisms that would be in place.In case b)
An engineer visit would be necessary, unless a competent carer, neighbour or relative could be dragged in.Engineers, don’t worry! You would still get paid well enough to compensate your expertise and you could spend more time in your armchair and less whizzing around on icy roads, endangering your own and others’ lives.
And, of course, there would still be plenty of instances where faults were not easily enough diagnosed without your esteemed presence on site!
Mike.Re: I should cocoa!
What a long winded load of rubbish written by some one to try and justify writing a quotation for the cost of repairing an appliance without seeing the machine!
Now here’s the easy option. JUST VISIT THE DAMN MACHINE. Simples!Re: I should cocoa!
DrDill wrote:What a long winded load of rubbish written by some one to try and justify writing a quotation for the cost of repairing an appliance without seeing the machine!
Now here’s the easy option. JUST VISIT THE DAMN MACHINE. Simples!I’m so glad to hear that you do read my posts!
Mike.Re: I should cocoa!
DrDill wrote:Now here’s the easy option. JUST VISIT THE DAMN MACHINE. Simples!
Are you putting any caveats on that at all or, is it a case of every machine should get a visit regardless?
I’m just asking as I don’t think that this has been well thought through by anyone here. Nor have they considered the root of the actual problem, just whinging about the symptoms instead of trying to cure the disease.
K.
Re: I should cocoa!
to try and?
i feel it was at the very least a partially valid justification. if the saving insurers made by working this was was passed on thru lower premiums then we would all be happy.
so on a flipside dr dill, your saying regardless of situation you would rather force a client, be they customer or insurer into HAVING a callout.
The ramifications of this, assuming you are purely an organisation with no access to source replacement machines/gain referal payments are:
A: youre out of pocket, because machine is BER cos you do not charge a call out fee
B: free call out, but you get your money by charging a “diagnosis” fee or hrly rate. which is then questionable practises, so youll be meeting TS anyway
C: you tie customer down to a call out fee, which they need not have had to pay based on your experience… for you turning up and spinning drum.
even if you then cut a call-out down to bare costs, your still causing the customer to throw money down the drain, and you havent made a dime.
So, which brings me back round to ethical practises…
EDIT.
also by tying customer down to a callout for a probable BER, do others feel that customers will feel more inclined to shell out for the repair as theyve already wasted £30 on a callout, might as well spend another 100 and get it fixed, in for a penny… etc
Re: I should cocoa!
Ken I am just talking about the no visit when writing an estimate for use by an insurance company, exactly what I was talking about previosly. And yes the desease needs to be sorted, that’s why I choose to sell quality repairable appliances. As far as he penzance poster goes ihave no dea what he’s on about, he seems to be writing a script for a comedy show!
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