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Re: meggers
It looks like you wrote this martin?
excellent work if you did.
Ive printed my copy out to give to my young apprentice to educate himself with.
Very easy to understand.
Thx Again. 😀Re: meggers
cornwell40 wrote:Martin,
Could you pop one in my box too please 😀TC
On its way TC.:tup:
Re: meggers
Martin wrote:
Techi wrote:
. Without regs in any specific trade you do tend to get a load of “incompetents” but fortunately due to the many variants our trade demands of the individual they are very quickly ‘weedled out’. And not by others in the trade but by their own customers.
Over the last decade or so the trade has settled down and for the most part in that time only the good have survived. Having said that and in the wake of the recent ‘recession’ those that have found themselves out of a job and yet have successfully fixed their wives or neighbours washing machine suddenly figure they can possibly make a living by going self-employed fixing washing machines?
This last week I have come across “a neighbour” (electrician apparently) repairing a HP td, stat kit, replaced heater panel with only 4 screws, condenser blocked water on the element, so did he use a megger? Customer called me in to sort it out. Did the repair and told him not to ring me again, his loss.
Local appliance shop owner has now decided to do repairs, previous trade builder!
Two calls where people have tried to save brass by having a go.
Two ovens fitted by kitchen fitters that require 13 amp fusing, both wired straight into cooker connection point which is fused at 30 amp in the consumer unit. Not to mention Part P. contravention
I doubt that a megger is likely will be top priority for this lot. Most wont have clue what one is, so regulations aint gonna stop them.
My point is that all and sundry are having a go as have been from time armorial so any amount of “weedling out ” will be have little effect as human nature (and making a buck) will feed the constant feed of “have a goes”Re: meggers
maltheviking wrote:May I have a copy please Martin to see what all the fuss is about 😉
It would give me great pleasure in sending you a copy via the miracle that is Email. 🙂
Just one small point Mal….I don’t have your email address and it’s not in your profile… 🙁
On the “weedled out” issue (incidentally twas not Techi that mentioned that – he wouldn’t dare be so frank and bold) it was little old me and your quote link Mal was someone awry into referring that was his post. …No harm done I’m sure though. 😀
Where was I? Oh yes weedling…..There’s not much call for weedling and the truth seems to be that the ‘I’ll give it a go, it’s easy peasey brigade’ get along quite nicely and will have more use for spurs and a 6 gun most likely.
The weedling comes in when these guys take on the trade as a profession and then struggle with diagnosing faults on today’s modern appliances that are controlled electronically.
Cowboys in our trade are few and far between, they go faster than a Bosch Half Moon Element when things get tough. Their plaintive cry is : –
I’VE GOT A MACHINE THAT DON’T WASH – IS IT THE MODULE? (Upper case to illustrate a cry in the dark) 😈
or…..
THE FREEZER SEEMS OK BUT THE FRIDGE TOO WARM – MODULE IS IT?
At least even a plaintive cry for help doesn’t go unheard to us here on UKW. In fact it’s encouraging to realise there’s a good few out there that have got the bottle to ask a question. And we all chip in and help put them on track.
God knows how many times I’ve shouted for help myself (mostly though on Whirlpool stuff TBH and usually I never get an answer but hey ho that’s my problem. In space no-one can hear you scream can they? In the Whirlpool Galaxy nowt can get out of that black hole so screaming is wasted in both space & time (E=MC squared if I’m not mistaken?)
maltheviking wrote:Two ovens fitted by kitchen fitters that require 13 amp fusing, both wired straight into cooker connection point which is fused at 30 amp in the consumer unit. Not to mention Part P. contravention
I’ve come across a few like that myself and oddly enough it doesn’t appear to contravene Part P though?* 😕 Usually it’s rented property and landlords shifting cooking appliances about as a rule. Not really a problem though because even the 13amp fused single ovens can mostly accept the option of 6 mm cable to their terminal block.
*I must thumb through my 17th edition and get back to you on that! 😀
Re: meggers
Part P special locations and Kitchens, my suggestion is generalisation of “Good Practice in Kitchens” which I take to mean anything thats not right 😕
Re: meggers
maltheviking wrote:Part P special locations and Kitchens, my suggestion is generalisation of “Good Practice in Kitchens” which I take to mean anything thats not right 😕
Ah I see and I take your point Mal for sure. 🙂
No way is a 13amp rated fan oven coupled onto a 30 or 45 amp cooker point best protected that’s for certain. Certainly not good practice but I don’t think it can be considered illegal per say? 17th edition regs doesn’t seem to have it covered from what I see anyway. 😕
Re: meggers
On the subject of meggers I had a cracker today that hopefully illustrates the point of these much needed gadgets.
Washer in a well appointed Horse Stable Block and used for washing horse blankets etc etc. Stable block equipped with CCTV, Fire Safety Equipment with sprinklers and Consumer Unit with RCD trip switches.
Bendix BIW105W Washer, symptoms = Door locks, programme begins but it will only pump on any programme, nothing else?
Put my ‘Metrohm’ (AKA a Megger) across the heater pins and earth and it read 0.5 megohms. (almost a dead short to earth)Why didn’t it trip the RCD I hear you cry? For those that know the answer then time to rest on your laurels, turn away and take the rest of the day off!:D
With fully controlled electronic machines a serious earth fault will not always take the trip out. Nor will the ‘programmer’ at any stage switch on the supply to the heater. If it did then the trip would go for sure. But electronic controls don’t work like that. Instead they use ‘logic’ circuits that ‘default’ should anything untoward happen. In the case of this cheapy Bendix machine it knew there was something wrong and so would only supply power to the drain pump and nothing else. For a crap machine that’s pretty clever technology it must be said. 🙂
Interestingly if that element was open circuit the machine symptoms would be that it overfills. That the pressure switch has no say in the water level and it would fill forever and a day. (That’s just a querk in this machines configuration and not a golden rule on other machines by the way?) …..But I digress……..
It’s true to say that a multimeter would have shown this heater’s earth leak but NOT shown any reading on a 500 volt DC insulation test when shorting out the live and neutral pins on the plug top! The plugtop test gave me a clue as to what was wrong before I even took the back off to check the element. It did show a 0.5 meg reading, the earthing was good yet it didn’t trip the RCD…how spooky is that?
Have you got your Megger out lately?
😈
Re: meggers
Anybody working on Electrolux group products should be aware of that Martin.
There is a new W/D with the numbers 14440 in it that has an issue with the dryer elements.
They go all green and Eco freindly, the appliance will only pump for 10 seconds, then NADA.
No further action.
Its a common problemo. 🙂
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