- This topic has 169 replies, 32 voices, and was last updated 16 years, 4 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Re: meggers
Alex wrote:I simply cannot believe some of what I’ve read in this thread.
I’m getting vibes that if there is an earth fault, rather than use a megger to identify the fault, keep disconnecting components & whacking in fuses using a process of elimination. That alone is unreal!
Put it this way, without a megger, despite the fault you are called to attend, you have no idea if there is an earth leakage. Therefore you have no idea if there is a potential DEATH risk to yourself or your customer.
You can clear a pump, fit a door seal, unblock a soap dispenser or whatever that does not involve an electrical fault; but you have a duty of care to yourself, your customer or indeed your employee. Without a simple check you have no idea what is lurking.
You can meet an appliance that has an inherent earth leakage, and enough to kill anyone who happens to be the conductor between that machine and a good earth, and you were the last one there. You or your company left paperwork, or a line on the victim’s bank statement to say who was paid on the last day someone looked at that product.
You can be complacent and say, “But I had no need to take an insulation resistance test, as there was no electrical fault”. However did you check the earth path itself, meaning is that appliance actually earthed properly? Dare I suggest someone who breezes in and facilitates a repair without a megger won’t be doing an earth loop test either?
The thought of some of what has been added in this thread to date horrifies me, and the poor old punter has no idea why some repairers seem to be too bloody cheap!
I’m going to be blunt here; I hope some of what has been posted to date on this subject is NOT indicative of the members of UKW as a whole.
Alex
well said Alex…..and I thought this trade had moved on from those days. 😥
Re: meggers
I remember reading in Graham Dixon’s Washing Machine Repair manual, albeit about 20 years ago, (probably still got my copy somewhere) the suggestion to use the disconnect & try it method of elimination (with a plug in circuit braeker) to diagnose low insulation faults on washers.
I wasn’t even suggesting that.
We are talking about an appliance which is showing a fault code (not blowing a trip). We all know that many modern appliances do such a thing for earth leakage faults in the range of 20MR which is well within safety limits.
Haranguing adv for not having a megger will achieve nothing to advance the cause of public safety. More likely to drive him away from this site (and me too) where he would otherwise have undoubtedly had an opportunity to learn better methods.
Mike.Re: meggers
adv…..
you should have…& get yourself a megger…….and you will see that it will make your job fault finding ….testing a lot more easier. 🙂
i just could not do without. one of the most used…tools in my tool bag.
canufixit
Re: meggers
leavemetogetonwithit wrote:I remember reading in Graham Dixon’s Washing Machine Repair manual, albeit about 20 years ago, (probably still got my copy somewhere) the suggestion to use the disconnect & try it method of elimination (with a plug in circuit braeker) to diagnose low insulation faults on washers.
I wasn’t even suggesting that.
We are talking about an appliance which is showing a fault code (not blowing a trip). We all know that many modern appliances do such a thing for earth leakage faults in the range of 20MR which is well within safety limits.
Haranguing adv for not having a megger will achieve nothing to advance the cause of public safety. More likely to drive him away from this site (and me too) where he would otherwise have undoubtedly had an opportunity to learn better methods.
Mike.Hold up Mike: Wasn’t Grahams book intended for the Diy’er? If you check back in your book it also said that Proffessional repair Engineers carried out Insulation tests with a Megger to find Low Insulation & For Safety testing and gave the required values for this, The use of a plug in RCD was suggested for DIY’ers as most would’nt be able to afford a Megger.
Nobody singled out adv for not having a Megger, it’s a sad fact that the majority of appliance Engineers don’t own a Megger & therefore don’t safety test repairs on completion. If a customer gets Electrocuted, telling a Court that you plugged the appliance in via an RCD & it did’nt trip is’nt going to work it’s no proof that the appliance was safe & had a good Earth.
Andy.
Re: meggers
That’s true. It was intended for DIYers. But if such a respected practitioner of our art can write a book suggesting such things to the public and has not yet, to my knowledge, after twenty years, been prosecuted for inciting people to injure or kill themselves then I don’t think I or anyone else on here has too much to worry about.
As for worrying about courts, just how many from our trade have caused injury or death to their customers? And how many have been taken to court for it? And how many are languishing in jail as we speak?
If you take your motor to the garage and pay them for an MOT test and next day a wheel falls off, are they liable for any damage caused?
I’m all for doing whatever is practical to ensure I don’t hurt anyone. But there are limits. I take responsibility for anything arising due to my workmanship. But if an element I didn’t even touch decides to go low insulation next day and kills my customer, I’ll be damned if that’s my fault.
Mike.Re: meggers
Amazing how we can wander away from the point of a topic.
Adv wanted information – he’s got an earful instead. I had thought that one of the key fuctions of this site was to help and advise our fellow engineers on technical matters.
I don’t have a Megger, I have an Isotech device. This is capable of knocking out 1000v and will find an earth breakdown on any given component when isolated from its circuitry. Pick an input, pick an earth, press the button and it ain’t difficult. If there’s a circuit, it shows on the display.
Not difficult. That said, this was a £270 purchase. I guesstimate that it paid for itself inside a year. It will also do the general earth and loop test (as well as surprising the very determined cat when required to) in a matter of moments.
Chris.
Re: meggers
leavemetogetonwithit wrote:That’s true. It was intended for DIYers. But if such a respected practitioner of our art can write a book suggesting such things to the public and has not yet, to my knowledge, after twenty years, been prosecuted for inciting people to injure or kill themselves then I don’t think I or anyone else on here has too much to worry about.
As for worrying about courts, just how many from our trade have caused injury or death to their customers? And how many have been taken to court for it? And how many are languishing in jail as we speak?
If you take your motor to the garage and pay them for an MOT test and next day a wheel falls off, are they liable for any damage caused?
I’m all for doing whatever is practical to ensure I don’t hurt anyone. But there are limits. I take responsibility for anything arising due to my workmanship. But if an element I didn’t even touch decides to go low insulation next day and kills my customer, I’ll be damned if that’s my fault.
Mike.Hi Mike: Nobody suggested that Graham was inciting people to injure or kill themselves, all I pointed out to you was that he had also made another statement regarding Proffessional engineers & safety testing / fault finding & you seemed to have missed this point. Just because people receiving shocks from appliances being left in an unsafe condition does’nt get reported very often does’nt mean it’s not happening & for a variety of reasons people don’t report it, many will just call a different engineer to repair the problem. As for not taking responsibility for someone elses work, then I think you will find that it’s last person to work on the appliance takes responsibility for ensuring it’s safe. As for the hypothetical element deciding to go low insulattion next day, well if you had done the tests & ensured a good Earth to the appliance, then the customer would not be dead. I don’t quite understand why you seem to have taken this so personally when adv the engineer who started the topic in the 1st place obviously has not.
Andy
Re: meggers
Penguin45 wrote:Amazing how we can wander away from the point of a topic.
Adv wanted information – he’s got an earful instead. I had thought that one of the key fuctions of this site was to help and advise our fellow engineers on technical matters.
I don’t have a Megger, I have an Isotech device. This is capable of knocking out 1000v and will find an earth breakdown on any given component when isolated from its circuitry. Pick an input, pick an earth, press the button and it ain’t difficult. If there’s a circuit, it shows on the display.
Not difficult. That said, this was a £270 purchase. I guesstimate that it paid for itself inside a year. It will also do the general earth and loop test (as well as surprising the very determined cat when required to) in a matter of moments.
Chris.
Hi Chris: Sounds like a good piece of kit, I don’t have a megger anymore either I use a Martindale on site & a Uni T insulation multimeter in the workshop but most engineers call any insulation tester a Megger no matter what the make, if adv decides to buy an insulation tester there are quite a few perfectly good examples in the CPC catalogue from £50.00 new.
Andy
Re: meggers
adv wrote:weve beeen in buisness 35 years , never had megger/ never killed any one,yet any way 😳
Hi adv: If you do decide to buy an insulation tester, try http://www.cpc.co.uk they have a good range to choose from with prices starting from less than £60.00 & i’m sure we will all be only too glad to help you learn the best way to use it, as Chris so rightly says they will pay for themselves pretty quickly in saved fault finding time.
Andy
Re: meggers
Penguin45 wrote:Amazing how we can wander away from the point of a topic.
My offer of test info for your Candy dishwasher still applies adv.:D
Also, if you like, and because everyone including me picked up your not ever having an insulation tester. I could right an article and post it here on UKW explaining what such a piece of equipment is, does and the importance of why everyone in our trade should be using one.
I might even ask Ken if perhaps he can get a deal going to supply those trade members via shop@ with one at an amazing value price!
💡
Re: meggers
Hi Martin: Can’t fault you mate, an informative article would be an excellent idea. Maybe the problem for a lot of engineers when it comes to Meggers is that they don’t understand them so can’t see the advantages they can bring to our everyday work, apart from the safety aspect. I know mine has paid for itself time & time again over the years & continues to do so. 🙂
Andy
Re: meggers
I acquired my current megger from HERE 😉
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.