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Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
turbodry wrote:As for Ken’s scepticism about cheap machines, how come Miele and Bosch still exist, but Servis, Merloni and MFI don’t?
The same reasons Mercedes, BMW et all exist and GM don’t! 😉
K.
Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
the internet does allow for information to be accessed more easily i just dont think we should put it on a plate for anyone to see what would you rather do sell a se of carbons or get paid fitting a set of carbons.
posting videos on you tube seems to be self indulgent and i think a poll should be taken to see wether repairers think its a good idea
or not.
i can book up a holiday cheaper on the internet than going to the travel agent but i wouldnt expect the travel agent to post a video on you tube showing me how to do it.cut my grass if you like but dont use my lawnmower.
Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
Wether repairers think its a good idea or not means stuff all.
A poll would be a complete waste of time.
If someone wants to post a video on YouTube they will go right ahead and do it, as long as it does not infringe any copyright laws and is basically legal, somebody will post it, so if someone takes the time to do it properly so be it.
Its interesting to note that at least one poster in this thread has never, ever answered a question on the boards, even in the closed trade section, he gets all of this massive resource at his fingertips, all absolutely free and then complains about someone giving sensible, accurate information to the public. :rolls:
Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
suedehead1 wrote:posting videos on you tube seems to be self indulgent and i think a poll should be taken to see wether repairers think its a good idea or not.
And that would achieve what?
Would it change anything, especially the nature of the internet?
We can hold polls on whatever you like, banning cheap washing machines, levering manufacturers to provide information… whatever you like. But, without either the authority to make legal changes or a mass of public opinion you won’t implement change.
K.
Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
iadom nothing in life is for free, every time someone watches posts on how to repair on utube actually will cost each and everyone of us in some way,
heres a little story, a man is an expert on cabbages, so he decides to open a forum,on the internet for all other experts on cabbages to join. this is brilliant for all concerned freedom to talk to other cabbage growers and suppliers, about all things concerned about cabbages.
trouble is initially this man had very good intentions, and soon realised,that cabbages dont grow on trees,(obviosly not quite the expert he thought he was 😆 ) anyway lets push on, a decision had to be made,because of the success of his internet forum,he soon realized,he was not quite paying enough attention to his own cabbages,and his business started to suffer.how can this be rectified 😯 ?. the answer was staring him in the face,lets open a little shop on the cabbage forum, and sell all and sundry that you could imagine for the expert cabbage grower of the future. in fact why not open a forum for the public, and then see how nieve our cabbage experts are,lets see if they can tell the public how to grow cabbages,then maybe they will come and buy there equipment from me.in fact if i go as far as producing my own brand of cabbage life may become a bed of roses, soon it wasnt long before everyone became a cabbage expert, and the real cabbage experts,where no more.i infact think this is a ,brilliant idea and only wish i thought of it first,
iadom you may now understand the reasons why i dont make many comments on this site, and the only reason is. is because of the type of information passed on to the puplic. if this were more restrained,then maybe we could grow cabbages for a lot longer. i do believe in helping the general puplic as much as possible,but i feel there has to be limits to what information should be given. and yes your right this site is a fantastic resource, but all we get ramed down our throughts is dont complain you get it for free.
why not have a small subscription if this site costs so much to run,then maybe there would be no need to tell jo public in grafic detail how to fix their appliances.
if this is a fair and open forum no doubt i will here your replies and views.Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
You know, there are times when I wonder why I bother to explain things. :rolls:
If we don’t offer the information, someone else will. It’s that simple.
Already there are scores other websites out there that offer all the cabbages you want and, if this one ceased today another would pop up to replace it within days, if not hours.
You should go read some of the forums out there, it could be a real eye opening experience.
But you are totally missing the point by blaming the internet as it’s not the problem, as I have already explained. If anything the internet has probably helped the repairers, not damaged them. And anyway, that particular Pandoras box has long been open, it’s way to late to close it now.
I do get the sense however that many would like to point the finger at UKW or whoever on the internet as the reason that they are quiet which, to be honest, is a totally ludicrous notion. It appears to me to be a case of, it’s new, we don’t like all this help being given for free when we should be charging people to do that. And really, that, so far as I can see, is the crux of it for some.
It just so happens that you have the freedom to come on here and have a moan about it. I wonder how much attention anyone else in the industry would pay where you to complain, such as Indesit about the cheap, rubbish appliances. None I expect.
The appliance repair business had its heyday in the 80’s and has been in steady decline since then due to higher incomes and lower cost appliances, it’s got bugger all to do with the internet. Is that clear enough?
The idea of the public forums is for the members to be seen as being open and HONEST traders. Which it does.
It is also to educate the public, in so far as we can, to buy quality appliances over cheap crap. Which it does as far as it can.
The more traffic (people) that we can drive there, the more that just maybe get the core messages that it’s sensible to repair, cost effective, environmentally friendly and that quality products win every time.
Now, are you seriously going to try to tell me that that’s a bad thing for repairers?
K.
Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
iadom wrote:
Its interesting to note that at least one poster in this thread has never, ever answered a question on the boards, even in the closed trade section, he gets all of this massive resource at his fingertips, all absolutely free and then complains about someone giving sensible, accurate information to the public. :rolls:That’d be me ….. Happy to answer trade questions, but as I don’t spend all day on the net, somebody always beats me to it.
I’d NEVER dream of posting on a public forum, as what I know is hard earned over 30 years and stays with me … information is all, and anyone who gives it away free to a customer deserves to go under (Is it vanity?).
One other point is that we have a WORKSHOP, and ALL faults can be found/cured by uplifting and spending time on diagnostics …. so the “massive resource” has so far proved to be of passing interest only … Fault Code book aside … but then we did pay for that .. and so it should be!
My ONLY advise to DIYers is “Let a professional do it … if you touch it, I won’t!” Of course, our workshop is VERY helpful here, as most DIYers opt to bring the machine in for repair, saving about £25 and allowing them to ease their mind by taking an active part in a guaranteed repair.
I feel very strongly that any professional service engineer posting a DIY video on the internet, available free to all, is a traitor to his trade!!! If he wants to sell it, I’m all for it!
Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
Just read ddirect’s last post ….. HEAR HEAR!!!
Absolutely spot on.Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
I can see your point perfectly well Ken, and I for one am not blaming UKW or the internet for the decline in our trade. It is absolutely NOT that.
What bothers me a little is that this video is put up for anyone with internet access to find. This must encourage more DIY’ers to do their own.
As has been said, that’s fine for parts sales (as long as they don’t then find them cheaper on flea-bay) but not so good if it’s fewer jobs for the repair industry. (Even if the decline is inevitable and unstoppable why do we need to lead it?)I’m with ddirect’s idea of paying a subscription if that would really help to remove the need for UKW to lead the information availability revolution.
Also I don’t see why info can’t be restricted to folks who actually support us by buying spares.
Mike.Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
leavemetogetonwithit wrote:What bothers me a little is that this video is put up for anyone with internet access to find. This must encourage more DIY’ers to do their own.
I don’t think you’ll find that anyone, other than those DIY’ers that have previously ask for help on UKW, has actually viewed that video on YouTube Mike? The statistics posted on YouTube at least show that to be the case anyway.
It is almost exactly 6 months to the day that Chris originally posted it and here is the first showing of it on UKW. I’m not sure from that if anyone has lost out on the deal, UKW with Chris’ voluntary help has sold yet another pair of brushes. Perhaps he gets a commission on brush sales – dunno? Ain’t much bothered TBH. :rolls:
All I do know is that in the grand scheme of things UKW only has a tiny fraction of the potential out there. I wouldn’t mind betting if you asked any one of your own customers if they’ve heard of UKW? Searched on the Internet in order to get their Bosch fixed even? The likelyhood is that they would answer “no” to all your questioning. 🙂
turbodry and ddirect must also realise this in their day to day business activities. Those that drag their machine down to turbodry’s splendid looking workshop for him to get sorted will answer likewise.
All that besides, of the grand populous of households in the UK, how many would have a scooby doo how to fix the machine themselves? Should the incentive be there and they were to go onto the Internet for advice then chances are Chris and his buddies will tell it like it is. But the vast majority are not so inclined, they haven’t got the wherewithall to do it anyway!
The first question anyone’s customer asks is “can you fix it?” followed quickly by the next question “for how much?” Chances are they’ll be happy with your first answer but if they say goodbye after your second answer then they may either go out and buy a new machine, seek out your cheaper competitors or go and search Google for “Cabbages” 😈
Ken has said many times that there are many other sites that give out tech info, that flog brushes and probably have the odd video to boot. So if UKW wasn’t around the demand wouldn’t wain in that marketplace at least. He is also fully aware that due to the all round popularity of the UKW site on all the worlds search engines UKW comes top of the list. Has been top site for years too – fact! But just you take a look at the amount of ‘page views’ since it first came on-line in June 2003 at its only been around 50 million in total.
Sounds a bl**dy lot at first glace ’tis true but using your desk calculator and divide it into equal parts each year and each month it only comes down to a small fraction of the total potential of the market. A percentage share in small single figures I think you’ll find. Then figure the help UKW has given the trade, all thanks to the voluntary help of a few individuals. And you’ll find that as much as 75{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of those visitors to the UKW website over the years have been from those in the trade!
My conclusion has been that the main beneficiaries to this website have been the trade and that the remaining has contributed totally to the cost of running it because the trade wants everything for FREE, if it’s going that is?
Praise be the Internet, and that cabbage patch of course 😀
Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
I’ve often mentioned UKW to some of my customers, in fact I’ve encouraged them to look it up in order to get an independent verification that what I’m trying to tell them is factual and honest.
They still come back to me when they’ve checked out what I’ve said is true, and they’re happier for it. 🙂It’s a resource, and like all resources, some will use and some will abuse. But I’m pretty sure I’ve not lost a single customer down to UKW, maybe to the net in general but you can never tell.
On the balance of things, I’m pretty sure that having UKW has put more money in my pocket than taken away.
Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
Bagman wrote:
On the balance of things, I’m pretty sure that having UKW has put more money in my pocket than taken away.
My feelings exactly.
It would be interesting to know how much the subscription would have to be to cover UKwhitegoods plus the profit made by advertising / sales.
We could then truly see how much it would mean to us in pounds, shillings and pence. Because this is the only thing that matters. 😉
What do you think £50 a year, £200 a year, £500 A year.
❓
Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
‘The time has come, the Walrus said, to talk of many things. Of ships and seas and sealing wax, of cabbages and kings’. 😀
Once upon a time there was a young Scottish cabbage grower called Wan Ketts. He had a thriving business supplying the large supermarkets ( work providers ) and also selling his cabbage plants to the general public. He also helped them to maintain their cabbage plants, weeding, feeding etc.
He sourced most of his cabbages from decent quality UK cabbage breeders, topped up with some high quality cabbage plant stock from Germany.
Things went well for many years but this was not to last, his orders started to dwindle. The supermarkets ( work providers ) started to screw him to the bone on prices, payments were late, missed or even refused. They even started taking money back from his account 12 months after he had been paid.
His sales to the general public also suffered and after investigation he found that they were being supplied by large out of town sheds, selling them cabbages from Italy, Eastern Europe, even China.
Now these cabbages were of very poor quality indeed, some died as soon as they were planted, others only lasted a short time and the overall taste was sub standard, but they were cheap. :rolls:
Wan decided that he could watch his business wither and die or do something about it. He got together with one or two cabbage growers from around the country and set up his web site, ukcabbages.co.uk was born.
At first it was a trade only site, primarily to help them have a united voice when dealing with the supermarkets ( work providers ) however it very soon mushroomed into something much larger. Technical help and advice, legal questions answered etc, together with all the other community benefits of a good forum.
The general public started to ask questions and after seeing that the information online for the general public was often very poor and gave some dubious advice Wan decided to open the public forums. These would have a sensible set of rules, mainly for safety reasons that the trade members were asked to adhere to, I mean you don’t want someone to put the wrong herbicide on their cabbage do you?
As the site blossomed even more it became obvious that there had to be some means of generating income so the shop@ was set up to supply the public with seeds, mature plants, fertilizers and any other items they required. This would in a small way go towards the upkeep of the site.
One particular type of slug pellet sold to the public had to be inserted in the applicator in a very precise way and after numerous calls from the public it was decided that a simple video would be made to help them do the job correctly.
After a couple of years Wan decided that he could help the trade members of ukcabbages.co.uk even more and took the radical and very risky step of introducing his own brand of cabbage. The ise cabbage was born. This allowed the individual members to sell good quality cabbages to their customers and also have a five or ten year contract to do all of the follow up maintenance, weeding, feeding etc. It also helped them to retain and grow their customer base.
So you see, Wan the enlightened cabbage grower decided that the Luddite stance was not for him. He went out on a limb, took a huge gamble and embraced all of the modern technology he could lay his hands on. There are many hundreds of cabbage growers around the UK who are eternally grateful. 8)
ukcabbages. co uk or even ukwhitegoods.co.uk has had a major impact on my business, all of it for the good.
My audited accounts from the time after I joined ukwhitegoods show a steady (modest) year on year increase in turnover & profit, no mean feat in todays troubled times.
Jim.
PS. I was not alluding to you turbodry. 😉
Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
Did timdowning i see you asume someone is making a profit out of this website, here is your quote.
It would be interesting to know how much the subscription would have to be to cover UKwhitegoods plus the profit made by advertising / sales. te]do you now something we dont or was it a statement,you hadnt realy thought about. ❓
Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
at the end of the day before things get to out of hand,
my final comment will be
i strongly feel as a trade based forum we should not be telling people how to to our jobs.
cant be bothered anymore with the whys and whynots just dont think it makes sense. and no amount of conversation could convince me otherwise.
on a final note thanks for all the different point of views, lets hope we all do well and prosper.
Darren
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