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Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
ps
iadom ever considered writing a book last coments were great.
if you do please dont write it about white goods.
fed up of this conversation 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
Darren,
What makes you think I haven’t thought about my statement?
I assumed that UKwhitegoods is making a profit. I can’t believe so much time, effort and hard work would be put into it if it wasn’t.
Thats it. Simple. No behind the scenes knowledge.
Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
Further thoughts today. OK after reading Martin’s post I can see that so far no harm seems to have been done with one very short video that hasn’t apparently been picked up by many people. (Word of mouth over the long term could yet see it take off, don’t relax yet Chris 😆 ).
Thing is these last few months, years even, I just seem to have been getting fewer and fewer easy peasy, straightforward, bread and butter jobs . I’m not asking for it to be plain sailing all the time, it never was, but Bosch brushes were until recently providing about 15{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} (very approximately) of my income. That has dropped to around 5{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} over the last 6 months. This is probably explained by other factors totally unconnected to You-tube etc. but it would be easy for anyone with a similar experience to jump on Penguin’s video.
I guess it’s just like Ceset brushes which seemed to fall before that and Hotpoint before them. Can’t all be down to DIY’ers. And even if it is, good luck to ’em I say.Still an’ all, can’t see why shop@ couldn’t make a whole series of short, high quality, COPYRIGHTED, DVDs/CDs for SALE to the general public. A discount on spares could be given to those who bought the videos. This could be an opportunity to make even more money to keep the site afloat.
I wouldn’t mind volunteering to be a film star myself 😉 as long as the pay is right. 😆
Mike.Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
Chris’s video was actually part of a grander experiment which, as yet, I’ve not had the time to chase down as there’s been one or two other things that moved up the queue.
It was just so good and clear I thought I’d post it.
We have the opportunity to produce a series of training DVDs that would be offered for sale to everyone, of course at a similar sort of discount level as the fault code book.
I’ll pause there for a moment and just point out one thing, no-one bothered to ask why it was there and why it was made. So, in actual fact, you’re giving us a hard time over trying to help you. 😉
Involved in this little sordid affair and idea what myself, Chris, Graham Dixon and a light libation at the last Christmas bash.
Some of it would be used online where appropriate of course but, the full bhoona would only be available on DVD, which would have to be bought. But it would also have allowed us to “grab” chunks of video, as is the case in that video, to use on the site especially in the trade section to build up a database of video as well as what we have now, although better.
This fits in with the introduction of new technologies to the website which, after almost two years of battling to get done, I’m having to get help from the universities here as what I want to do has never been done before. That takes time and it also takes considerable funding.
It also takes time and funding to get the likes of training videos done as well.
It also takes space which, presently we don’t have here. So, to solve that we have to move which I hope will happen late August. Until that happens I’m severely hampered in what can and cannot be done as well as being an obvious drain on my time.
K.
Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
From my point of view I can see both sides so I’m sitting squarely on the fence but if I could see a video of how to get into a Bosch dishwasher then I would pay ££££££s for it. Tried once and never since. I know there have been threads on it but until I see it done I don’t want to do it in a house and bu##er it up and look like a plonker again. 😳 :
RobRe: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
Don’t get me wrong …. I have HUGE respect for you guys that make UK Whitegoods what is is .. and will be, but I don’t think you are infallible, even if some posters seem to infer their way is the only right way.
Surely, spare parts should be accompanied by a note saying that they should ONLY be fitted by someone competent or qualified to do so*, that having been said, no advise need be given … if they’re competent, they don’t need to ask how to fit them …. simple init.
* If you don’t say this, are you not opening yourself up to litigation in the event of electrocution, fire etc.?Seems very sad to me giving this amount of information away for free, no other trade would do this, I suppose thats why this trade is not valued like others.
To be fair, I honestly think we will loose out from this kind of video promoted by retailers but I think most of us have received enough technical information from the trade forum to be financially in the good.
Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
robbra wrote:From my point of view I can see both sides so I’m sitting squarely on the fence but if I could see a video of how to get into a Bosch dishwasher then I would pay ££££££s for it.
To be perfectly honest I think that such a video, DVD or whatever will never happen. And in spite of all the well meanings of Ken, Chris and even the resources that Graham Dixon may be able to drum up, it just won’t. It can’t, the subject too specific, has to be all encompassing…..? ..nah…..and if Chris’s Youtube video is a ‘taster’ then forget it guys, it ain’t worth your while. 🙁
Rob, I’ve posted a blow by blow account on stripping down a Bosch/Siemens/Neff dishwasher that’s helped hundreds of guys since. Can’t be ar$ed to find it right now but (trust me) I’ll find it and post the link for you in the morrow. You don’t need a flippin’ video when each and every step of the way is laid out in print. (e.g. Step 1, Remove the lid) and you don’t need to see the Penguin struggling taking the lid off to suss that part, now do you….? and so on. 8)
Best forget the video and just stick to posting questions on the UKW forums. Rest assured if I know the answer I will let you know. If you want chapter and verse as to how to do it? I will do that as well should you wish. No bl**dy video can do that. Besides as soon as it’s published and on sale it’s out of date anyway!
Rock on….and night night all, past my bedtime it is!:rotl:
Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
Martin wrote:It can’t, the subject too specific, has to be all encompassing…..? ..nah…..and if Chris’s Youtube video is a ‘taster’ then forget it guys, it ain’t worth your while. 🙁
And you would be qualified to judge this, how?
K.
Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
robbra wrote:From my point of view I can see both sides so I’m sitting squarely on the fence but if I could see a video of how to get into a Bosch dishwasher then I would pay ££££££s for it. Tried once and never since. I know there have been threads on it but until I see it done I don’t want to do it in a house and bu##er it up and look like a plonker again. 😳 :
RobI’ll show you how to sort a Bosch dishwasher Rob – and I won’t charge you either……:wink:
I have given advice on the public forums many times in the past; hopefully the recipient will make use of it. It is important to remember that any information is only useful IF:-
1) The recipient has the nonce to understand it,
2) They have the ability to put it into practice;
3) They have the patience to do the job to its conclusion;
4) They have ordered the right parts,
5) They are not just trying to gauge how difficult the job is and then realise they can’t be bothered anyway and call someone to do it….
And finally the information is only worthwhile if they have diagnosed the fault correctly in the first place.
The issue here is seeking to aportion blame for a percieved threat to our livelyhood. This woeful tale was being told when I started in 1983 and I’m still here. In fact, the sheds, Argos and the price comparison sites on the net are more of a threat than a few “How to do it” videos.
Helping the public can be constructive – it will win their trust and therefore they are far more likely to use someone who has tried to helped them.It would be fair to say that we are all worried about the decline of this industry and think that something should be done to help the independant engineers; like pushing for a better deal from work providers and spares suppliers and fighting for a Code Of Practice for recognition as a genuine Trade in the eyes of the Government and the general public.
But then you’d already be a Whitegoods Trade Association member. Griping is all well and good on this site, we all know what’s wrong with this trade, so help us try and remedy the situation and turn the tables in our favour. Working together is the key……:wink:
Steve.
Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
I agree with Martin, that does happen occassionally.
The effort involved to produce specific DVD’s for each make, model, variation would be impossible.
If the DVD isn’t exact to the model then you will still get people posting where that hidden torx screw is as its not on the DVD.
Flog the Haynes manual and keep the site as it is. Surely thats enough.
A DVD of all and sundry is, i feel, overkill.
What is the reasoning behind the DVD? Mainly to help us out in the trade?
Any help I, or anybody else, need is already available here on UKwhitegoods.
Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
Been following this with interest.
As a thought for all the anti “video help” brigade, think about this. Over the last five years or so how many Bosch, Neff or Siemens washer and dishwasher pumps have you unblocked ❓
Bet it’s a fair few aint it. Now consider that on the BSH site they had (dunno if they’re still up or not) streaming or downloadable videos telling punters how to do it themselves 😉
Point is some people just don’t like getting their fingers or flippers dirty, even when someone shows them how to do it.
Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
robbra wrote:if I could see a video of how to get into a Bosch dishwasher then I would pay ££££££s for it.
Next time I do one, could be 6 months or so ’cause I don’t get that one too often, I’ll take my camcorder and tripod along. How many of those £ things did you have in mind? 😆
Also, I’m going off to do a WMA bearing change tomorrow. If anybody would like me to film it and is willing to pay appropriate fees, DVD, CD or VHS, whatever you like, let me know before 9am, so I can pack the gear. 😆
Mike.Re: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
Thanks lads, I will take you up on it but I’m on a week off so putting my feet up in the sun 😆
RobRe: New way to replace Bosch brushes.
I would be remiss if I didn’t elaborate slightly on the whole video thing.
The notion was to take apart a machine from each range in depth, not each specific model as that would be ludicrously complex to do for a start but, also a total waste of time.
The biggest problems that you all face and, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, is that you walk into a machine that you’ve never seen before, have no clue how to operate and have no clue how to get into. Next thing you know you’re stood wondering if the plastic lug you broke off the fascia will make any difference.
That aside there’s the whole guesswork thing going on as we see a lot. Now, you may not want to admit you do that and you may well not do it but, it happens. Just ask DAG, ISDAL and a raft of others how often they see someone ordering up a ridiculous amount of spares and we know half of them probably aren’t needed, it’s an attempt to get the machine written off or, if it is authorised, you’re covered.
Where it’s a charge call it’s easy, you take the call money or accept that you get nadda as it’s a free callout and move on to the next one.
In part the idea was to help with that and hopefully educate whilst delivering relevant information that is actually useful.
Although I can often look at a line drawing and a schematic and figure out how a machine works and how to get into it doesn’t mean everyone else can. It also doesn’t show me the pitfalls and, we’re back to the broken plastic lugs because some stupid little screw was hidden somewhere.
This was rammed home to me about two years ago when we had a whole bunch of engineers in a room at Sibson stripping down an ISE10 dryer. They broke it.
It wasn’t anyone’s fault, it was just that nobody truly knew how to get into it properly.
There’s two roads to go down when you get that sort of issue, you can photograph the process and publish it with a whole lot of information which takes time to compile and read or, you just bang together a short video. The video takes almost as long to create but it’s a lot easier to digest than sitting reading a technical document.
Whether we (I) ever get the time to do anything with it is a whole other bottle of fish but it could be immensely useful to some I think.
One of the areas I’d love to cover is refrigeration as there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding there as well. So much so that, normally, when a non-fridge guy goes and says a machine needs regassed or a pot in it I can almost guarantee it doesn’t. What it needs is the repairer to understand how the damn thing works so they have a chance of actually diagnosing the problem correctly.
I can also tell you that, after helping Graham with a lot of photography in the Haynes manuals, that this isn’t as easy as you think it is. A point proved by the video that John and my old man cobbled together for the AW23.
I’m still not happy about that and it will be redone at some point, we’ll call it the Director’s Cut. 😉
But to make the grade on this stuff and to make it look professional and intelligible is far from easy. And, that’s the trick of it.
So, whilst our flippered friend may well not be George Lucas, the point of it was that it shows that it can be done and that almost anyone can follow the instruction given. That was the importance of it, not the settings or the soundtrack.
It is however most important to stress the point that I do not think that this is the repairer’s fault at all.
I do think that a lot of the information currently available from manufacturers is, shall we delicately put it, not very good. 😉
Training is, for the most part to all intents and purpose, non-existent and, even when it is available, it is almost available exclusively only to the appointed agents. Even then, they are often expected to travel and give up at least a day’s work to attend. That costs when you do agency work, a lot at the time and there’s knock-on effects as well.
Those are the problems.
If you can think of a better way to solve them, feel free to suggest them.
What we wanted to do was produce training material that did not have those restrictions on as, it was ours and that you could use and digest as you saw fit.
Whether we actually sold any or not was, really, not the primary concern or at least on my part it wasn’t. And, to be honest, I’ve enough other things going on to keep me amused without getting into this. Hell, I could be doing consultancy for someone like PWC and actually getting paid to write as much!
What you have to understand about UKW is that it stems from my wanting to help repairers and I’m very happy to report, I’m not alone in that endeavour. There are a number of people that help massively in that effort.
With that said you also have to understand that the market and the world in general is in a state of constant flux. Economies change, products change and evolve, delivery of product and services change, charges change, costs change. We do not live in stagnation and, should you choose to do so, you will ultimately fall by the wayside.
There are some very valid points to justify releasing information to the public, as well as some very good ones and not to be protective, aside from the image problem that it creates. However that’s a story for another day and anyway, I’m hardly liable to offer up a marketing strategy on a plate for some people that have access to this forum without charging them for the advice.
I have always said, despite much opposition from people that have become friends in this industry as well as other pressures, that we will never, ever charge for the access to UKW. I have also repeatedly said that we would not charge for any information that we give to the independent repairs unless there is a physical cost and goods involved.
I said that in 2000 and I’ve said it almost annually ever since as there are other ways to finance UKW without taking money from the people, I feel, can least afford it. Yes, that means we have to sell a few parts, granted. It also means that we have to have some advertising on the site as well. But, hopefully, the impact is minimal on all counts as that is the intention.
To counter that however there are several ways to profit through the use of the site. Trade tech help, legal help, general business advice, spares help, ISE machine sales, free calls from repairs@, insurance… there’s a few things there constructed to help the repairers. And all of it possible as we do what we do. We may well not be right, or I may well not be right all the time, but we all try to get it as right as we can.
This was just another idea that was being explored, one of many.
So, it’s up to you to decide what you make of it all.
Me, I’m just gonna crack on with it and what I think is right.
K.
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