- This topic has 83 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 17 years, 12 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
I’ll stick to the models I’m selling at the mo then. I will let you know when they change. 😉
It would still be interesting to know what models are having that tub fitted. Then I can steer away from them while I can.The models I get are still coming from Merthyr. (Apparently).
I will still stick to Hoover as you can at least get the tub changed under the 5 year parts cover. Which in turn keeps a machine going for longer than one thats scrapped after the years guarantees up!!!
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
timdowning wrote:I will still stick to Hoover as you can at least get the tub changed under the 5 year parts cover. Which in turn keeps a machine going for longer than one thats scrapped after the years guarantees up!!!
Indeed so Tim, a 5 year manufacturer warranty on these welded tubs ai’nt a bad deal is it? Besides which they may even outlast the motor?I don’t see what the fuss is all about? :rotl:
Even cheap tack carries a 5 year guarantee these days it seems. Shelling out £250 on a Hoover doing tonnes and tonnes of daily washing then 4 years down the washing line the drum seizes solid! Then £90 for Hoover to whop in a new one…..not a bad deal in the grand scheme of things now is it? 8)
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
Hi
Some of the new Servis machines have welded tubs with non removable pressure chambers .
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
Went to a Hoover 8kg today – bonded tub. 🙁
Whatever way you look at bonded tubs, they are bad for the customer; bad news for the repairers, and bad for the environment. Good news of course for the manufacturers while the public are unaware, that’s the only bit of the equation we can hope to change. And we have to try.
I’m sure it would certainly not be ” 8) ” if this was all happening back in 1975……….. 😉Steve.
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
aqualectric wrote:Whatever way you look at bonded tubs, they are bad for the customer; bad news for the repairers, and bad for the environment.
Three ‘bad’s” don’t make a good now do they Steve? But can I just ask what’s bad for the customer here? Bearing in mind the price they’ve paid for the mass produced product in the first place. What’s so bad for the environment here that isn’t already been produced for the last 2 decades? The welded tubs have less waste in them than the stuff it is set to supersede anyway.
I suspect the only true “bad” here is that the repairers can’t repair them and that’s the crux of the whole debate. One less major part in the construction we can’t make a bob or two in fixing. Just like motors, pumps and timers before they came along.
aqualectric wrote:I’m sure it would certainly not be ” 8) ” if this was all happening back in 1975……….. 😉
1975 eh, wow just look at what has changed in the industry in that time. Solid built stuff then, solid state stuff now. We’ve entered a whole of mass consumerism in that time, the customer calls the shots everywhere you go. Built ’em cheap, stack ’em high if it goes wrong bin it and buy another world of today.
Try telling the customer you want to make money out of fixing their machine during its lifetime, that you want to tap in on their misfortune when the drum bearings start to rumble. When you know and they know it’s cheaper to just go out and buy a new one anyway ‘cos they only cost £200 in Argos!
If this was happening back in 1975 non of us would be in the whitegoods game today. So make hay while the sun shines my friend and if you look in the far distance the signs are there for you to diversify into bigger and better things.
All this talk about trying to change things, getting the public on your side is very immotive indeed and I wish you luck. Wouldn’t it be wonderful had time stood still back in 1975, boy we could be making a fortune out of fixing those lovely Keymatics. It ain’t going to happen and remember at least that I told you so first 8)
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
So Martin what you’re saying is that scrapping all these machines and sending them to landfill or recycling is good for the environment then? Building new ones using valuable natural resources whilst exploiting cheap labour is somehow good? And, by some wrong wiring in your argument this is producing less waste?
The same can be applied to spares pricing and technical info, none of it helps the situation.
Sorry but your comments just don’t make any sense at all to me.
K.
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
chances are that with the rising costs of raw materials for manufacture and oil for transportation we will proberbly start to see a general increse in finished goos prices. cutting quality to bring in at a price will in the end harm the brand name as will the lack of thought for servicing. when times are hard and money tight I’ve always found people will look to repairs or buying better quality to last.
most of us have been in this game for long enough to know how to keep our customers happy. that ,for me at least, means being able to carry out a reasonable cost repair or advising on quality.
” I’ve only had this servis fo two years”
“well what I’d do is……………………………wilf
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
kwatt wrote:So Martin what you’re saying is that scrapping all these machines and sending them to landfill or recycling is good for the environment then?
Of course not! Whatever gave you that idea?
kwatt wrote:Building new ones using valuable natural resources whilst exploiting cheap labour is somehow good? And, by some wrong wiring in your argument this is producing less waste?
Don’t let emotions get the better of you, again I never said any such things!
kwatt wrote:The same can be applied to spares pricing and technical info, none of it helps the situation.
One may choose between the two issues as being linked I suppose but only in relation to not having free and restrictive access to these areas of our trade.
kwatt wrote:Sorry but your comments just don’t make any sense at all to me.
No need to apologise Ken.
My comments merely follow the route I realise the trade is taking, my head not buried in the desert sand. I applaud the stance you are making regarding ISE and the obvious success this will benefit yourself and many that follow your path. But again that is not at issue here as the trade per se’ is not taking that route.
A small group of whitegoods engineers shouting out the wrongs of a welded drum is hardly going to affect the general direction manufacturing is taking. One cannot argue against the fact that in general what they produce represents a usuable product for a fair price. We can hardly take the moral ethical grounds of the explotation of fossil fuels and slave labour on the issue of a welded tub now can we?
We can’t stop the world to get off here, it’s happening, it’s all around and we have to accept what’s been thrown at us, right now it’s a welded tub. All very sad indeed but trust me, I’ll get through this as will we all.
…and please don’t shot the messenger boy! 8)
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
There’s just one flaw though Martin, if the lifespans are shortened the need to replace grows. If the need to replace grows then the more resources are used in producing, shipping etc. new ones and components.
Given that we’ve gone in the UK from over 85{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of machines lasting more than ten years to less than 65{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} seeing seven years use that’s a whopping 250-300,000 more machines a year scrapped, totally needlessly. Figures from memory, I’d have to check them but I know that the last one is pretty much on the money.
That’s JUST the UK and that’s JUST the change since around 2003, less than ten years certainly.
Now apply that across the world.
That’s an absolutely staggering amount of metal and plastic that, every year, is being needlessly *WASTED*!
Now, I’m no raving environmentalist by any stretch but I realise only too well that this state that the industry has gotten itself into is both wasteful and costly besides producing thousands of tonnes of waste every single year.
Besides which it is costing the public dearly to boot with accelerated replacement cycles which, for the sake of a few quid, can be avoided.
It’s not an emotive argument at all, it’s based in cold hard fact and can be easily proved.
But then again Martin I guess that aroubnd 1932 the German people just thought it was okay what the Nazis were doing, we’ll just ignore it, it’ll be fine in the end. I know it’s a strong analogy but the point is made, if you sit and do nothing, say nothing and let it happen without so much as a whimper then you have to wonder where it will stop. If we’ve gone from an average life of ten years to six or seven in such a short space of time where will we be in another few years?
I know you only have another few years to go before you hang up your toolbox for good, some of use have another couple of decades to worry about.
K.
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
Im sorry Martin but your assertion about modern appliances being good value in relation to their price is pretty amusing frankly. At least half of whats commonly offered is simply not fit for purpose.. actually contravenes consumer law in my opinion.
Of course, people cant be a*sed complaining because it was cheap to buy anyway so it gets slung on the skip & they buy another.. probably from the same factory but with a different badge, and the vicious cycle continues.
Ok Martin, so £200 – £250 aint a lot in isolation, but the three year life we are steadily heading for with washing machines in particular leaves you with very different numbers taken over say 10 years.
Multiply that the world over & i really do think its literally a criminal waste of resources and energy, and of course, overall, the end user probably spends more on todays appliances than they did 10 or 15 years ago despite the seemingly low prices. Ironic, & very clever.
👿
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
kwatt wrote:
I know you only have another few years to go before you hang up your toolbox for good, some of use have another couple of decades to worry about.
K.
That is frightening and 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} true! This topic makes perfect sense, but will it lead anywhere?
I’ve watched this with a lot of interest especially when someone brought 1975 into the equation. That was the time of 8-Track stereo car players, Betamax, Square steering wheels on Austin Allegro’s. Back in the days when a purchase such as a washing machine was a status symbol as well as an asset. Dishwashers were almost unheard of.
Back then I was repairing sloping front Keymatics as well as Toasters, Irons, Kettles etc. Even used to solder spouts back on Swan Kettles. I recall the introduction of a Morphy Richards toaster where if an element failed, meant a whole new inner carcass and that was dearer than the toaster was when purchased.
The Hoover “Matchbox Range had just been introduced, and then we saw the end of stripping “concentric” valves to replace the diaphragm, and replacing with a whole valve that was a quarter the price. Give it another 5 years and we were replacing whole pumps at £40 each. Add another 10 years and were fitting Askoll pumps at £6 each. You can see where this is going can’t you.
In the early 80’s I saw the beginning of end of the repair sector of Vacuum Cleaners, I used to expect certain 1334 1346 & 625 cleaners at the same time every year for the annual service, and gradually they got less & less. Having already kissed goodbye to repairs of small appliances, the cleaners were next up the food chain. Then microwaves went the same way, and it wasn’t long before fridges followed suit. A question I asked once before, who fits a VT9 stat these days?
At present disposal may be the biggest hurdle in slowing the laundry market following suit, but the main reason the above has happened is because the stores want to stack-em-up cheap and turn them out like pats of butter. This keeps their figures looking good, and pushes more insurance.
Back in 1961 John Bloom went to Tallent engineering in Birmingham, and said “Make me a washing machine I can sell for less than £20”, and they did (Rolls Concorde & Rapide) He even gave away fur coats or holidays abroad as promotions.
Put another 30 years on that, along comes one of the Sheds and says to Philco, make me a washing machine we can put out for less than £200 and they did. Average weekly wage in 1961 was than £12; average weekly wage in 1991 was £225. So already the product had devalued by nearly 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}. Look what happened to Philco, along with John Bloom, went to the wall.
Now the factories are mainly interested is keeping the production line running, and the more that goes out the gate at a silly price the more they will put out at a silly price. That I’m afraid to say comes at a cost, and we are talking the end product here.
Suffice to say, I whole heartily agree with the statement regards Martins generation, which includes me, as we may no longer be putting in the hours to see the final outcome of all this; however I have engineers working for me with age ranges between 25 and 45 years old, which BTW is well under the national average. These are the guys along with the readers of this who could become victims of the way things are headed.
I would love to see us make a difference, and it would be a terrific achievement. Regretfully the issue is global, and if our Italian cousins go back to split tubs, the Orientals probably won’t and they will be able to maintain the gate price of $40 per unit. Then the European factories will re-consider sealed tubs, or move the operation to the Far-East just to keep their name up and remain in the market.
The question is can we change the world, or do we have to adapt in keeping with the rest of the world? This is food for thought, I’ve been doing this over 35 years in one form or another, and I’m really passionate about what we do and the skills we have to offer, sadly corporate thinking does not share my passion.
Alex
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
Interesting thread.
If you really want to make a change with the enviroment in mind, forget the government or the manufacturers.
Get Greenpeace or Friends of the Earth invovled. Whether you like them or not, they’re extremely vocal and are fantastic at getting thier message across, very often to the detriment of big business’s that are riding rough shod over the consumer and the planet at the same time.Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
Ken, out of interest, was it Merloni you were comparing with the third Reich..?? i can see where youre coming from though..
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
In reply to Alex:
What you say is true about the genie being out of the bottle and yes it does seem hopeless when looked at it in that context, but…. The textile industry has had it far worse than practically any other and the sweatshops almost mirrors what appears to be happening to the white goods industry. But with lots of public pressure about the conditions invovled it’s starting to change. Yes it’s a very slow process but it is happening. Look how many brands now advertise that they are supporting fair trade and other similar schemes in order to distance themselves from that despicable practice.
I know the anology is a bit of a stretch, but if the enviromentalist card is played the same way with the white goods industry I don’t see things as being irreversable.
But then again I’ve always been an optimist.
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
Alex wrote:The question is can we change the world, or do we have to adapt in keeping with the rest of the world? This is food for thought, I’ve been doing this over 35 years in one form or another, and I’m really passionate about what we do and the skills we have to offer, sadly corporate thinking does not share my passion.
Once again from Alex another brilliant synopsis of the last 30-40 years of our experiences in the trade. And it’s clear to me that indeed we cannot change the world and can only adapt with the direction it is taking us. We’ve been adapting ourselves all the while and will continue to do so. Our business is fixing things that go wrong and they’ll always be a need for such talents both now and in the future.
More machines shipped out, more business for us year in year out. If you can’t fix them then flog them a new one, if you can’t flog them a new one, make a few quid removing the old and installing the new. This week alone I’ve written off 3 machines as BER and installed 2 brand new ones the 3rd I’m installing on Monday afternoon. (The local Euronics store puts my name forward quite a bit 😉 )
Corporate thinking doesn’t share our passion for a better environment and use of resources but they do ship out more and more products that we can capitalise on. And our concerns should be centred on maintaining our share of the action and less about the morals of it all. “Business is business my boy, I’ve got mouths to feed!” – Charles Forte (1962)
Question: Can anyone tell me what percentage of a modern washing machine is currently recyclable? 😉
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.