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Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
bagman wrote:Interesting thread.
If you really want to make a change with the enviroment in mind, forget the government or the manufacturers.
Get Greenpeace or Friends of the Earth invovled. Whether you like them or not, they’re extremely vocal and are fantastic at getting thier message across, very often to the detriment of big business’s that are riding rough shod over the consumer and the planet at the same time.
The Ethical Consumer Magazine may be interested in running an article on this subject.
GrahamRe: One piece welded tub seized solid!
Martin wrote:Question: Can anyone tell me what percentage of a modern washing machine is currently recyclable? 😉
Everything (and I do mean everything) is recyclable – if the effort is forthcoming. Which, currently, isn’t.
Chris.
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
Penguin45 wrote:
Martin wrote:
Question: Can anyone tell me what percentage of a modern washing machine is currently recyclable? 😉Everything (and I do mean everything) is recyclable – if the effort is forthcoming. Which, currently, isn’t.
Chris.
I would think more than 90{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of appliance waste is easily recyclable. That will never change the fact that its far more efficient to make the product to last in the first place.This profligate wasting of energy will come back to haunt us,9 billion people covering the earth soon, oil & gas long since peaked, it simply is not sustainable. 🙁
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
Unless the consumer in general can be persuaded to alter their ways, the big manufacturers will continue to reduce their costs to bolster their profits.
Lets not forget though that raw materials have gone through the roof, and whilst I don’t like bonded tubs, the cost savings of not using metals screws over a bonding process should not be overlooked. Against one machine the saving is minimal, against a whole production run the saving is very important. That was always the reason Zanussi gave us when we questioned why timer loom was so tight on the late jetsystem and Nexus stuff when it first appeared…costs of materials in total.
If the consumer actively wanted a longer lasting machine, Miele would be the no1 seller, but it’s not purely and simply because of the initial cost which the consumer in general refuses to pay for a mere washing machine, but will gladly for the new TV.
My honest opinion is that come 10 to 15 or so years the white goods repair market as we know it will be gone, and machines will be repaired by the manufacturer for 3 years then dumped on next failure.
Although a sad reflection on the industry, I am not that worried about welded tubs coming in. Tub jobs although big jobs actually account for a very small amount of my yearly total.(5{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} approx)
I only do about 2-3 per month, although good jobs to do most customers dont want to have them done anyway.Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
Kentish wrote:My honest opinion is that come 10 to 15 or so years the white goods repair market as we know it will be gone, and machines will be repaired by the manufacturer for 3 years then dumped on next failure.
At last, and thanks to Kentish, I’m not alone in coming to this conclusion it seems. In fact I agree with your every comment and observation. The repair trade will indeed diminish over that likely period of time given the direction it is headed and the rate of acceleration in that direction.
It has been happening this last few years to products at the bottom end of the market and it is all too apparent that the middle range products are heading the same way. Hence the furore over the welded tub as more and more mid-priced products will and are taking a tumble in that direction already.
Whilst the writing is on the wall over the demise of the repair trade regarding these appliances, it is fair to assume the other products will still provide a healthy income in the years to come. So all is not doom and gloom. 😉
Integrated appliances will always be a concern to Joe Public as replacing even the most basic welded tub one of those requires specialist intervention as a rule. Likewise refrigeration and cooking products will always provide a healthy income for many that take that route and earn a decent living from.
As far as trying to educate the public into buying better made, more durable washing machines then you’re on a hiding for nothing there I reckon. As the general public at large are already convinced they only last 3 to 5 years anyway?
You can shout “Indesit are crap!” by strapping yourself to the Eiffel Tower if that makes you feel good. But it ain’t going to stop over 15{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of the whitegoods buying public worldwide from buying them! If you have any sense you might do well to get on the bandwagon and flog some yourself as they are flying off the shelves right now as I type! 8)
Go with the flow, flog and fix what your customers choose to buy and they’ll always come back for more. Out with the old in with the new happening over shorter and shorter periods is good for business. I’ve already given evidence (successfully I hope?) that washing machines are infinitely recyclable. Throw your old machine away and likely as not bits of it reborn into the one you replace it with. That this hype over the green issues, wasted use of fossil fuels and resources is gross exaggeration and scaremongering. Global warming ballcocks I reckon but if you are a tree hugger and use Ecover or swear by your Eco Balls, then who am I to argue with, no offence meant, live like you wanna live my friend.8)
Being a whitegoods repairman all my working life I have found it best not to advise my customers as to what products to buy, only ‘suggest a good option’. That way if they buy something and it goes wrong at any stage, they won’t blame me for it. They ultimately will go out and buy something but if it goes wrong won’t hold it against me or cast any aspersions toward me. But rather, they will call on me to fix it when it fails sure as eggs is eggs! 😉
Kentish is spot on in that Miele are the Number 1 appliance to buy but will never ever be Number 1 is the sales charts. The trade respect their market share but rubbish their un-cooperation with it. And it’s probably true to say that few whitegoods engineers will recommend buying one because of it. But any reference to Miele and their position in the trade is in general meaningless. They know their market, they capitalise within it….end of!
Likewise Candy and Indesit have made their mark and it’s for those in the trade to know which direction to take regarding the products that are out there. No point in discusing the why’s and wherefore’s of welded tub and getting all philosophical over the darn things….Get out there….the sun is shining still.. go out and make hay, why don’t ya!!!!!
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
You’re starting to sound like George Dubya there Martin and, we all know what a gifted intellectual he is. 😆
To be fair I don’t actually believe the whole Global Warming Theory either but that’s not really the point. The point is there’s tonnes (metric ones, not your silly old wimpy imperial ones), at least thousands but quite probably into seven figures, of needless waste. There’s God only knows how much energy and whatnot as well as pollutants being ditched into the atmosphere and water because of practices like this, not just industry but in many.
Much of this can easily be avoided, simple plain fact.
But I guess it’ll be okay for you so long as all that waste and pollution doesn’t end up in Berkshire and spoil your view or whatever. Just so long as they keep building wind farms and nuclear power stations far, far away it’s okay for you I suppose. Oh, I’ll tell you what, let’s build them all in Cumbria, Yorkshire and Scotland, perhaps a spattering in Wales as, after all, they don’t really matter and, while we’re about it, just send the waste you produce as well eh?
I’m no eco-warrior, but at the same time I’m real sorry but, I really don’t want your waste or anyone else’s.
K.
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
There is a modification kit available from Electrolux for the HEC machines to prevent small items of underwear/socks etc getting down between drum & tub. It consists of a modified door gasket & 3 pieces of plastic which fit under door gasket. 50293369000 is the part num’.
This will help to prevent things getting blocked but doesn’t address the problem of poor quality parts in the first place causing breakdowns.Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
Seamy wrote:There is a modification available from Electrolux for these machines to prevent small items of underwear/socks etc getting down between drum & tub. It consists of of 4 pieces of plastic & fits under door gasket. Can’t get the part number right now.
This will help to prevent things getting blocked but doesn’t address the problem of poor quality parts in the first place causing breakdowns.Zanussi had a plastic ring on the drum side of the door seal for the original jetsystems to stop things going between the drums, which they later incorporated into a door seal with a larger and more substantial drum side edge.
I remember that ring (and the subsequent immediate replacement) being very handy for drums that had a large gap at the front even with a new door seal.Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
The only positive thought i have on all of this is i find it difficult to imagine just whats left for the mass manufacturers to re design & cheapen inside a washing machine.
Admittedly i didnt see the whole welded tub thing coming! 😯 but i mean think about it, lift the lid on a modern cheap machine & what have we got.
combined single valve & soap drawer, cheap pcb’s , welded drum, cheap sync pump, no filter, mickey mouse suspension,cheap concrete balance weights, spaghetti wiring (not just on Merloni 😉 ) so unless the actual cabinet or motor can be somehow be made cheaper i think possibly this trend has gone almost as far as as it can.
That of course ignores the fact emerging low wage countrys will always be more than willing to have the thousands of jobs a major white goods manufacturer can bring, and this will probably be the only area of serious cost reduction left to be exploited.
Martin’s right on one thing though, 😉 only those who can adapt will survive, & the numbers employed by this industry will likely continue to contract. Nothing stays the same i guess.. 😥
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
In regard to weight of materials going to recycling/incineration/landfill.
If a machine is made to last 10 years or more it tends to be heavier than one that is made as cheap as possible. It is also stuck at the level of water and energy efficiency reached at the time of its manufacture. Green economics is as complicated and fraught with controversy as any branch.
I think there’s room for Miele (and ISE) for a long time yet; just as those, who can afford to, drive Rollers.
Mike.Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
I’ve found Servis seem to be the heaviest machines these days 😕
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
kwatt wrote:I’m no eco-warrior, but at the same time I’m real sorry but, I really don’t want your waste or anyone else’s.
Fear not then Ken for today’s scrapped washing machine will not be dumped in Cumbria but reborn and sat on a pallett at Comet’s distribution centre ready to be shipped to a new owner in Scarborough. 😉 😆
Re: One piece welded tub seized solid!
The problem is Martin that they’re not being recycled and the WEEE Directive is turning into a farce TBH. Not just washing machines or whatever, almost any electrical or electronic goods have huge amounts that simply are not being recycled. The last figures I saw said that an estimated 4500 producers hadn’t signed up to WEEE in the UK and who knows how many retailers.
The biggest laugh is that often what is reclaimed is sent to China to get used manufacturing stuff to get sent back here, it’s a joke really and there’s almost certainly a heap of stuff still going into landfill that shouldn’t be.
However if you want to pretend that it’s all okay and it’s all being dealt with you go right ahead. 😉
K.
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