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Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
There’s a fly in that ointment Martin…
There’s a massive difference between £10-30 for a pump and way over £100 for a tank.
The only problem I ever had with the old pumps was that you couldn’t buy spares for them most often, people didn’t like that they had to buy a whole pump for a 60p seal being faulty. Now you have to buy a >£100 tank for a £20 set of bearings being faulty, big difference IMO.
Worse, get a bra wire or whatever trapped in there and the machine could be scrapped because of it, hardly environmentally friendly!
People will vote with their feet in the end once they learn or the washing machine will simply become like a toaster, if it goes wrong you throw it away and repairs become a thing of the past.
K.
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
Some of these horror stories though really are pathetic. It reminds me of the guy at work who bought a brand-new Renault Laguna a few years back, only to have to take it back to the dealer on over 20 occasions <snip
And why I’ve never bought a new car or motorbike. My current car is a 93 Rover 218SD that cost me £100 4 years ago. It’s done nearly 200,000 miles and whilst it only needs the odd bit here and there I’ll carry on enjoying 50 mpg. Before that was my ex Co 23 year old Sierra estate that cost £25 and f all in repairs / parts in the 10 years I owned it personally. The Sony Trinitron 18″ monitor style finally gave up at about 18 years (I had repaired it about 3 times over those years though, including one HT transformer).
I’d have been looking to get shot after the second failure quite honestly. Ironically the back-breaking straw (that turbo) I don’t think was the fault of the car — he always filled it up with crappy Tesco fuel and would sit in 5th gear at 30mph. Always fatal 👿
Ah, no that wouldn’t help. An Uncle used to drive his Reliant Robin like that and those little engines prefer a few revs.
All the best ..
T i m
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
Phidom wrote:
Now, I just need to find a scrapped machine with a split tub and a dead motor or controller …. 😉
I think you are knocking on an open door with most of what you say but this seems like a sound plan.You are probably right but we can have our moan eh. 😉
Ok, assuming this machine functions similarly to many washing machines in this price range (which I believe is nearer 400 than 200 pounds retail?), even if I was to spend £125 on new tub halves and bits then if it lasts another year it seems it might be about right (and based on the notion that everything made these days can be cr@p could be no worse a risk than buying completely new)?
A free tub would be even better of course .. (or a re-joined sealed one) 😉
All the best ..
T i m
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
kwatt wrote:
T_i_m wrote:
I suppose *they* do. Some of us expect a product to be able to achieve a certian lifespan and if it doesn’t expect a solution. Had this machine been bought by me from new, had it died inside (minimum) 3 years I would have been straight up the TS demanding some Merchantable Quality.Hi Tim,
Have a read at this article
The legal system, in practise, holds little that will be of any help in cases like this as it takes into account the cost, useage and is pretty vague around telling you what is considered to be “reasonable”. In short there is no warranty of “durability” and no set timescale by which any goods should last with each taken on its own merits.
I’ve seen TS and Citizen’s Advice trying this before over this sort of thing and the parts prices and the so called parts warranties from the likes of Hoover (Candy) and Hotpoint (Indesit) with no success most often other than perhaps a gratis repair fee.
Caveat emptor I’m afraid in the real world.
K.
Hi and understood.
From your link I am particularly interested in the following points ..
“Goods cannot always be expected to work fault-free. They can break down through normal use. Consumers cannot, therefore, expect to hold the seller responsible for fair wear and tear. There needs to be a fault that was present on the day of sale even though it only became apparent later on, or a mis-description of the goods, or a lack of durability that suggests the goods were not of satisfactory quality to start with.”
So, a washing machine bearing that fails in one year. Isn’t there a possibility that there was a manufacturing fault at day one (like a miss-fitted seal etc?). Ok, bearings fail but making the unit in such a fashion that then can’t be easily repaired is not doing the manufacturer or humanity any justice. When we throw things away, just where is ‘away’. It’s actually just somewhere else and (as I’m sure all here will agree) will come back and bite us in the future. I predict they will be diging up new housing estates to mine the ‘stuff’ we threw away in the not too distant future.
“It also means that, if you buy say a £200 washing machine then it cannot reasonably be expected to last as long as a similar product costing £1000. Given that this pretty much goes from the top to the bottom of the washing machine price range then the one at the bottom may only be expected to last a few years whilst the one at the top would be expected to perhaps reasonably exceed a decade or more of use.”
Of course, but the bottom line here is “a few years”, not ONE year. This is especially the case on the bottom end models where the cheapest components are used. Similarly with the Indian built Royal Enfield Bullet motorcycle. The materials they are made from are inferior to what is generally used in todays modern machines but the REB’s are indefinatly repairable and the parts are equally cheap. We don’t mind if it’s cheap and might go wrong as long as we can repair it when it does.
“The price (a £200 audiotape player might be expected to last longer than a £15 one);”Yes, but the £15 should at least last the year. Further to this we are now seeing prestige names branding lower cost equipment and selling on their name alone. I bought my wife an £80 Sony portable CD/Walkman and it lasted roughly 3 uses over 18 months. I wouldn’t buy any other Sony product and have now found a cheaper one that has been working fine for nearly two years. Mud sticks.
“There is a good indicator that there has been a problem with a component and, that is, if there has been a modification. Normally this will indicate that there has been some sort of issue caused by the component in question and that some form of modification has been carried out to try and resolve the issue. It is not guaranteed to be the case of course as there are other reasons to modify a part, such as the component supplier is no longer used, but it does usually point to a problem.”
I collected a faulty Dyson DC03 from Freecycle. The ‘fault’ was simply a broken wire at the moulded plug. It also appeared that the wand had broken at the handle joint and it looked to me like a design weakness. I contacted their customer service department and explained the situation. They send me a complete new wand that was of a stronger design, foc. Will I deal with Dyson again .. yes.
So, with this washing machine sealed tub thing I will personally make every effort to not buy one, ever, even if that means taking my washing down the local brook! 😉
All the best ..
T i m
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
kwatt wrote:There’s a fly in that ointment Martin…
There’s a massive difference between £10-30 for a pump and way over £100 for a tank.
The only problem I ever had with the old pumps was that you couldn’t buy spares for them most often, people didn’t like that they had to buy a whole pump for a 60p seal being faulty. Now you have to buy a >£100 tank for a £20 set of bearings being faulty, big difference IMO.
I always like the fact that you could be given the choce of replacements .. “Ok mate, you can have this AEG one at 30 quid or this exact same Zanussi one for 20” 😉
Worse, get a bra wire or whatever trapped in there and the machine could be scrapped because of it, hardly environmentally friendly!
I understand that several members on this list are professionals in this game and being that close can sometimes mean the status quo can be more accepted than by us ‘outsiders’? “One day all tubs will be this way” sorta thing (and they are probably right). However, things can change. They make a tub designed to be bolted together then save 50 pence by fusing it together. Joe public get’s to hear about it (often via there wallets), it ends up on Watchdog and peoples awareness starts to grow. Questions are then asked in the showrooms and the splittable tub machines start selling in greater numbers … so the manufactures start bolting them back together again?
People will vote with their feet in the end once they learn or the washing machine will simply become like a toaster, if it goes wrong you throw it away and repairs become a thing of the past.
I agree. You can buy a basic toaster for £6 and I did recently to replace an end-of-line Swan toaster that has served us well for many years and has started getting a bit erattic. The £6 toaster is cr@p, it burns the toast as it’s too fast and is very unpredictable (oh, and actually tripped our RCD the other day!). A Dualit toaster would be £120 and whilst it may be repairable I’m not sure it would actually toast any better than the old Swan or many other models if you were a bit lucky. If it actually worked better than any other toaster, had a predicted long lifespan and was repairable then I might consider spending £120 on one because it’s only £120 not £800.
The strange thing is for less money than a Dualit toaster you can buy a brand new tumble dryer … (shrugs).
All the best ..
T i m
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
T_i_m wrote:So, a washing machine bearing that fails in one year. Isn’t there a possibility that there was a manufacturing fault at day one (like a miss-fitted seal etc?). Ok, bearings fail but making the unit in such a fashion that then can’t be easily repaired is not doing the manufacturer or humanity any justice. When we throw things away, just where is ‘away’. It’s actually just somewhere else and (as I’m sure all here will agree) will come back and bite us in the future. I predict they will be diging up new housing estates to mine the ‘stuff’ we threw away in the not too distant future.
Bearing failures under a year old are commonplace now on cheap machines and have been for almost ten years now.
People want cheap, pay cheap, they get cheap. It’s that simple.
As for the environment, well no-one really seems to care TBH. Some light bedtime reading for you here and here that should explain that better.
T_i_m wrote:Of course, but the bottom line here is “a few years”, not ONE year. This is especially the case on the bottom end models where the cheapest components are used. Similarly with the Indian built Royal Enfield Bullet motorcycle. The materials they are made from are inferior to what is generally used in todays modern machines but the REB’s are indefinatly repairable and the parts are equally cheap. We don’t mind if it’s cheap and might go wrong as long as we can repair it when it does.
You’ve fallen into a classic trap here of trying to apply the law in a different way to different products, it doesn’t work that way I’m afraid.
You often use the car industry as a benchmark as do we but think about these points:
- If a component fails on a car does it cost >50{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} the cost of a new car?
If a component fails on a car, even after a few days do you have an automatic right to a replacement?
If you require a repair on a car do you get same or next day service?
There is safety and standards on cars and replacement spares, there is no such legislation which applies to the appliance industry
If a car doesn’t perform the way you want and you suss this after you buy it will you get an exchange or your money back?And, that’s just for starters. However, the EXACT SAME consumer legislation applies to both.
The fact of it is that people research a new car far, far more as it costs so much more and yet expect an appliance costing far, far less to last longer than they own the car and expect better service from it.
Is it just me or is that a bit crazy?
T_i_m wrote:Yes, but the £15 should at least last the year. Further to this we are now seeing prestige names branding lower cost equipment and selling on their name alone.
Yes because people like to think that they can get something for nothing or a free ride. You can’t, there always comes a point where you have to pay the piper.
T_i_m wrote:I collected a faulty Dyson DC03 from Freecycle. The ‘fault’ was simply a broken wire at the moulded plug. It also appeared that the wand had broken at the handle joint and it looked to me like a design weakness. I contacted their customer service department and explained the situation. They send me a complete new wand that was of a stronger design, foc. Will I deal with Dyson again .. yes.
Good for Dyson, I don’t rate the machines one bit, I think they’re rubbish compared with Sebo or Miele cleaners and cost more but at least that seems good customer service.
T_i_m wrote:So, with this washing machine sealed tub thing I will personally make every effort to not buy one, ever, even if that means taking my washing down the local brook! 😉
Without knowing what’s inside there’s no way to tell I’m afraid, until it’s too late.
K.
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
T_i_m wrote:I always like the fact that you could be given the choce of replacements .. “Ok mate, you can have this AEG one at 30 quid or this exact same Zanussi one for 20” 😉
We still do this with the online spares extensively, saves people a fortune.
T_i_m wrote:I understand that several members on this list are professionals in this game and being that close can sometimes mean the status quo can be more accepted than by us ‘outsiders’?
Over 1200 members of UK Whitegoods are in the trade, there’s a little bit of industry experience here. 😉
T_i_m wrote:“One day all tubs will be this way” sorta thing (and they are probably right). However, things can change. They make a tub designed to be bolted together then save 50 pence by fusing it together. Joe public get’s to hear about it (often via there wallets), it ends up on Watchdog and peoples awareness starts to grow. Questions are then asked in the showrooms and the splittable tub machines start selling in greater numbers … so the manufactures start bolting them back together again?
Unless people vote with their feet and, more importantly, their wallets then Martin is correct, the policy won’t change.
T_i_m wrote:I agree. You can buy a basic toaster for £6 and I did recently to replace an end-of-line Swan toaster that has served us well for many years and has started getting a bit erattic. The £6 toaster is cr@p, it burns the toast as it’s too fast and is very unpredictable (oh, and actually tripped our RCD the other day!). A Dualit toaster would be £120 and whilst it may be repairable I’m not sure it would actually toast any better than the old Swan or many other models if you were a bit lucky. If it actually worked better than any other toaster, had a predicted long lifespan and was repairable then I might consider spending £120 on one because it’s only £120 not £800.
The Dualit is a good toaster, I’ve had one for years (a decade or more I think) and never touched it other than to use it and, it gets used daily. I bought it, at the time it was about £100 IIRC, because I got sick fed up of a new toaster every year and the rubbish results form the cheapo ones.
But I took the conscious decision to buy better and it’s saved me money in the longer term as well as a whole heap of hassle I don’t want or need. Asides from which, as a big bonus, I get better performance.
T_i_m wrote:The strange thing is for less money than a Dualit toaster you can buy a brand new tumble dryer … (shrugs).
Even more shocking is that people will spend more on a hunk of plastic cr4p from Dyson than they will on a washing machine then expect it to last longer and, for me, that just beggers belief!
Just what quality of washing machine do you expect for less than the price of a vacuum cleaner?
K.
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
Is it not just the case though that with cheap items, it’s a lottery what you get rather than the cheapo products being crap per se?
Toasters being a case in point: At exactly the same time (10 years ago almost to the day) I bought two Micromark 4-slice stainless steel toasters, for about £9 each. One for me, one for my bro who had just moved into a flat.
My brother’s died after about 18 months. Not great. Mine on the other hand is still going strong, does a good job of toasting bread, and only now might be being replaced due to some rust inexplicably appearing on the outside casing (rust on stainless? hmmm). What worries me is the possibility of rust landing on the bread, so it’ll probably be on it’s way to the recyclers at some stage.
Micromark are junk, right?
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
Bearing failures under a year old are commonplace now on cheap machines and have been for almost ten years now.
People want cheap, pay cheap, they get cheap. It’s that simple.
Out of interest, would you call this Zanussi ZWF1431W ‘cheap’?
As for the environment, well no-one really seems to care TBH. Some light bedtime reading for you
.
Interesting, one ends with ‘do your research’ and the other with ‘no point doing any research’ .. 🙂
You’ve fallen into a classic trap here of trying to apply the law in a different way to different products, it doesn’t work that way I’m afraid.
You often use the car industry as a benchmark as do we but think about these points:
- If a component fails on a car does it cost >50{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} the cost of a new car?
Maybe not, but I was informed the other day that if a modern 3 year old car is involved in a relatively minor accident then 12 airbags at £500 each, the crash damage and the disposable dashboard can write it off.
The fact of it is that people research a new car far, far more as it costs so much more and yet expect an appliance costing far, far less to last longer than they own the car and expect better service from it.
What ‘people’ research a new anything these days. Don’t they simply buy on either cost (free finance), convienience (local dealer) or the lifestyle sold to them from the TV?
Is it just me or is that a bit crazy?
Not saying .. 😉
T_i_m wrote:Yes, but the £15 should at least last the year. Further to this we are now seeing prestige names branding lower cost equipment and selling on their name alone.
Yes because people like to think that they can get something for nothing or a free ride. You can’t, there always comes a point where you have to pay the piper.
So is say £375 for this Zanussi and one years use considered ‘nothing’?
Good for Dyson, I don’t rate the machines one bit, I think they’re rubbish compared with Sebo or Miele cleaners and cost more but at least that seems good customer service.
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Nor do I, but then I’m not yer average punter. How many people do you know who go into their local electrical / whitegoods shop to buy a cleaner, sporting a sound level meter? (I bought a Miele Cat n Dog btw).
Without knowing what’s inside there’s no way to tell I’m afraid, until it’s too late.
Well the ‘too late’ has already happened of course as this machine was heading for landfill. It cost me a breakfast to my ‘mate with a van’ and I will split the tub as carefully as I can with the thought to re-joining it if for no other reason than to see what happens and how bad the bearing is.
If the stripdown goes ok then I might then consider new tub halves mit bearing (anyone want to help sponser this project with some discount please) ? 😉
Could be an interesting long term feasability study … ?
All the best ..
T i m
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
T_i_m wrote:I understand that several members on this list are professionals in this game and being that close can sometimes mean the status quo can be more accepted than by us ‘outsiders’?
Over 1200 members of UK Whitegoods are in the trade, there’s a little bit of industry experience here. 😉
Oh indeed, but (respectfully) I’m not sure a ‘professional’ would either have the time nor the flexibility a resourseful d-i-y’er might have? Ie, you probably wouldn’t be allowed (or want to risk) doing a ‘non standard’ repair in case something went wrong later and sommeone was hurt.
There is no doubt many folk on here could strip this machine far quicker and more logically that I will but then what happens when you get to the tub? (if someone has actually split one ‘carefully’ I would be interested to hear from them).
Unless people vote with their feet and, more importantly, their wallets then Martin is correct, the policy won’t change.
And maybe that might be more likely as the cost of living continues to increases as it is doing now. In time of plenty we can afford to squander, some of us still wouldn’t even if we could afford to.
The Dualit is a good toaster, I’ve had one for years (a decade or more I think) and never touched it other than to use it and, it gets used daily. I bought it, at the time it was about £100 IIRC, because I got sick fed up of a new toaster every year and the rubbish results form the cheapo ones.
I’m still tempted to buy one .. but I don’t like the idea of it not being ‘cool wall’ .. and being quite bukly .. and stainless finish (difficult to keep clean) .. 🙁
But I took the conscious decision to buy better and it’s saved me money in the longer term as well as a whole heap of hassle I don’t want or need. Asides from which, as a big bonus, I get better performance.
That last bit is the key though isn’t it. Most of us don’t mind paying over the odds if something actually works better (but most draw the line with Dyson and Apple)
Even more shocking is that people will spend more on a hunk of plastic cr4p from Dyson than they will on a washing machine then expect it to last longer and, for me, that just beggers belief!
Yep, but thanks to the fact they can be unreliable and the ease they can be fixed I have both a DC01 and 03 that cost me nothing to obtain (Freecycle) and pence to ‘repair’. Bring on all the ‘beyond economical to repair’ goods I say!
Just what quality of washing machine do you expect for less than the price of a vacuum cleaner?
Erm not me, I don’t? I bought a Miele cleaner (that just has to suck cold air) because it was quiet (for about £200 if I remember correctly). The last washing machine I bought (that has to do a lot more than suck cold air) was the AEG Lavamat Digitronic 6100 but that was 15 years ago and I can’t remember what it cost (but I don’t think it was ‘cheap’).
All the best ..
T i m
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
jjames wrote:Micromark are junk, right?
As your example displays, some you win, some you don’t.
I wouldn’t buy one, but that’s me.
K.
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
T_i_m wrote:Out of interest, would you call this Zanussi ZWF1431W ‘cheap’?
Yes. And, I can explain why that is.
I was part of the main Zanussi service agency for over ten years in Glasgow carrying out over 12,000 service calls per year only on Zanussi.
I can assure you that this machine is nowhere well as engineered, built, robust or repairable as a Zanussi before they introduced the stupid Nexus tanks, made from plastic and all green and eco-friendly as they could be recycled. To this day I have yet to see a system for returning or reclaiming that material and I am in no doubt that there is tons of it in landfill sites all over the UK.
Now they’ve sealed the tanks to make them still less repairable, bright uh?
AEG, Tricity, Zanussi, Electrolux, John Lewis and a few others all use the same tanks in them. Same thing for Hoover & candy, Indesit, Hotpoint, Ariston and others. The list is seemingly endless.
So you can’t buy an AEG of the same quality ever again, they don’t exist any more and reports are reaching me of multiple bearing failures between 12 and 24 months old across all these brands.
But then, back in the day, we thought being able to sell a 1200 Zanussi for £350 was damned cheap!
That was nearly twenty years ago.
Now, almost twenty years later are you telling me that a machine costing £25 more should be good, how does that work? Back then a Ford Escort could be had for less that £5000, new, half the equivalent would cost today In a showroom.
You mentioned earlier that there should have been advances in production thereby leading to cost savings and, there has been. Trouble is not a lot of them are actually doing any good other than making the SRP lower.
If you look through the manufacturer section you’ll see that many of the “big five” as we call them or now six, own the majority of brands out there. We went through a massive rationalisation in the 80’s and 90’s with a few stragglers being picked up in the past few years. These companies will represent well in excess of 60{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of all appliances sold in the world, it is no longer regional really. These are now global corporations that don’t give a fig what you or I think nor do they seem to care how good the product really is. What they do care about is sales volumes.
The reason that they have these different brands is, as in the example with Electrolux, the punter that buys a Zanussi will pay a little more, the one that buys an AEG a bit more still, somewhere in the middle is the Electrolux brand and right down there at the bottom is Tricity Bendix. Sorted, all areas of the marketplace covered.
Slight problem with that, behind the fascia there’s really not a lot of difference between them.
Take your pick of the big boys, they all play the same games.
Now you get into the cost of spares, something that we kick up merry hell about, as they are often way, way, way over the top priced. A motor for that Zanussi you have, kiss goodbye to at least £100. A tub you’ve already found out is way over £100 and a PCB won’t be far off that if not more. I don’t even have to look up the prices, I know what to expect. How can three components cost as much as a replacement machine and why?
When we started ISE we wanted to try to cut through all this so yeah, the machines cost a little more up front but, for example the main PCB on an ISE2 is £22, a motor £35, a complete tank £35 a rear half with bearings £20. It’s a cheap machine and the parts are equally cheap.
On ISE5 they are slightly more, but not much.
On 10’s they are more expensive but then we’re using the best of the best in that with no cost restrictions.
But we don’t try to dupe people with different brand names, it’s an honest and upfront way of saying, you get what you pay for. People will either listen or they won’t, it’s up to them but we were never comfortable with the standard industry practices as we think it’s bordering on dishonest.
So in the end I wish you luck with the Zanussi but you won’t be able to buy tub halves for it, it will only be supplied as a complete tank. The bearings will be easily available the seal won’t be as there will be no part number and no data on it, you’d have to match it up and hope to find one that you can use. Then all you need to do is somehow get it sealed back up again and make it watertight and able to stand the stresses involved. But, it won’t make the machine any better as I said.
K.
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
kwatt wrote:
T_i_m wrote:
Out of interest, would you call this Zanussi ZWF1431W ‘cheap’?Yes. And, I can explain why that is.
Please .. 😉
[quote:2x2fw7km]I was part of the main Zanussi service agency for over ten years in Glasgow carrying out over 12,000 service calls per year only on Zanussi.
We rode through Glasgow on one of our motorcycle camping trips (Me on my basic but repairable BMW R100RT and her on her infallable Yamaha XV750) 😉
I can assure you that this machine is nowhere well as engineered, built, robust or repairable as a Zanussi before they introduced the stupid Nexus tanks, made from plastic and all green and eco-friendly as they could be recycled.
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Understood. But I believe Zanussi are still 1/2 way up (or down) the scale?
To this day I have yet to see a system for returning or reclaiming that material and I am in no doubt that there is tons of it in landfill sites all over the UK.
Shame.
Now they’ve sealed the tanks to make them still less repairable, bright uh?
AEG, Tricity, Zanussi, Electrolux, John Lewis and a few others all use the same tanks in them. Same thing for Hoover & candy, Indesit, Hotpoint, Ariston and others. The list is seemingly endless.
So you can’t buy an AEG of the same quality ever again, they don’t exist any more and reports are reaching me of multiple bearing failures between 12 and 24 months old across all these brands.
I think I bought the 6100 about when Zanussi / Electrolux was consuming AEG .. and had already digested (or substituted) it’s machines in the lower end AEG offerings. But I really cared less what badge was on it, as long as it worked, and carried on doing so ..
But then, back in the day, we thought being able to sell a 1200 Zanussi for £350 was damned cheap!
That was nearly twenty years ago.
Ok ..
Now, almost twenty years later are you telling me that a machine costing £25 more should be good, how does that work?
I’m not ‘telling you’ anything K, I’m just an open minded d-i-y’er that is up for a challenge remember! 😉
Back then a Ford Escort could be had for less that £5000, new, half the equivalent would cost today In a showroom.
Yup, I still own one .. it’s a 1978 MKII 1300 Saloon that currently looks like an early Suzy Jeep. In fact I did an “ISE” on the Escort. I took away the problem bits (rusty steel monocoque body) and replaced it with a substantial steel ladder chassis and a fibreglass bodyshell. 18 years on and there’s not a touch of rust on the body … .
You mentioned earlier that there should have been advances in production thereby leading to cost savings and, there has been.
Crikey, I got something right! 😉
Trouble is not a lot of them are actually doing any good other than making the SRP lower.
Of course not, but that was the point. These products have become ‘cheaper’ partly because of the lower cost of production (scale, automation and harmonisation), not necessarily (just) because they are using inferior components?
If you look through the manufacturer section you’ll see that many of the “big five” as we call them or now six, own the majority of brands out there. We went through a massive rationalisation in the 80’s and 90’s with a few stragglers being picked up in the past few years. These companies will represent well in excess of 60{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of all appliances sold in the world, it is no longer regional really. These are now global corporations that don’t give a fig what you or I think nor do they seem to care how good the product really is. What they do care about is sales volumes.
With respect you aren’t telling me anying new here K. My point was we (the customers) can and sometimes do vote with our feet. Ok, it might take a bit of time for yer average Joe Punter to catch on but they often do.
The reason that they have these different brands is, as in the example with Electrolux, the punter that buys a Zanussi will pay a little more, the one that buys an AEG a bit more still, somewhere in the middle is the Electrolux brand and right down there at the bottom is Tricity Bendix. Sorted, all areas of the marketplace covered.
Skoda, VW, Audi? Toyota / Lexus … ?
Slight problem with that, behind the fascia there’s really not a lot of difference between them.
😉
Take your pick of the big boys, they all play the same games.
😉
Now you get into the cost of spares, something that we kick up merry hell about, as they are often way, way, way over the top priced. A motor for that Zanussi you have, kiss goodbye to at least £100.
And for my AEG Lavamat, £217 was my last quote. But then if you say I’d have to buy something pretty expensive to replace it that puts the motor price back on track?
A tub you’ve already found out is way over £100 and a PCB won’t be far off that if not more. I don’t even have to look up the prices, I know what to expect. How can three components cost as much as a replacement machine and why?
The same reason as car some parts are so expensive (where there is no pattern / aftermarket competition) and why a Lexmark inkjet printer costs more than it’s cartridge …? (And why I chose a Canon ip4000 and cartridges at £1.20 each) 😉
When we started ISE we wanted to try to cut through all this so yeah, the machines cost a little more up front but, for example the main PCB on an ISE2 is £22, a motor £35, a complete tank £35 a rear half with bearings £20. It’s a cheap machine and the parts are equally cheap.
Ok, I was going to ask .. so I buy a new ISE machine (a std production maxhine from XYZ that’s had some bits tweeked) and it get’s installed etc all in (I’ve never had anything delivered or installed, prefering to do both myself). I get a ‘free’ 2, 5 or 10 year warranty (? depending on model), again something I’ve never bought on any appliance. What *I* want from (say) a washing machine is one that works well (it doesn’t have to be the best), works reliably for at least (allowing for todays drop in pride / quality etc) 5 years and during and after that period I would like to be able to buy spares at the prices you offer. If that is what I would get from an ISE machine then you can count me in.
But we don’t try to dupe people with different brand names, it’s an honest and upfront way of saying, you get what you pay for. People will either listen or they won’t, it’s up to them but we were never comfortable with the standard industry practices as we think it’s bordering on dishonest.
We agree again then. And a concept we (the public) have assumed (innocently) was the case already?
So in the end I wish you luck with the Zanussi but you won’t be able to buy tub halves for it, it will only be supplied as a complete tank.
Erm, eSpares have quoted me prices for both halves and they are in stock? *Many* other online suppliers show the back section mit bearings / seal for ~£90?
The bearings will be easily available the seal won’t be as there will be no part number and no data on it, you’d have to match it up and hope to find one that you can use.
Erm, again, it seems to be easily availiable?
Then all you need to do is somehow get it sealed back up again and make it watertight and able to stand the stresses involved.
As per the standard split (non welded) tub machines then K? I’m confused now … 🙁
But, it won’t make the machine any better as I said.
Oh, indeed and I have no query with that point whatsoever. So, again, just for comparison, would you say the basic ISE will wash, rinse and spin *better* than this Zanussi then (I’ve just stuck some greasy work clothes through it as a test and they seem to be clean enough, even on low settings)?
All the best .. 😉
T i m
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
If eSpares have told you they are available they are either wrong or have been given the wrong information. The only other possibility is that they don’t know that there can be alternative variants based on the machine’s production code.
Not that eSpares ever get it wrong of course being so knowledgeable with so many skilled staff. 😆
Electrolux products often have several variants over the lifetime of a model number and they can be wildly different.
Email Dave on spares@ukwhitegoods.co.uk with the model number, PNC number and the parts needed. You’ll likely find they’re cheaper as well. But, if it’s a welded tank there will be no spares available other than a full tub group and no information on the spares either.
ISE performance is good, 5 better, 10 better still. Whether the 2 is as good as the Zanussi I can’t say as I haven’t tested a Zanussi in a long while now. Without comparing them back to back it’s hard to judge performance.
K.
Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?
kwatt wrote:If eSpares have told you they are available they are either wrong or have been given the wrong information.
Is it not at all possible they could be correct? When I wanted parts for the Zanussi tumble dryer recently they were spot on with all the components?
The only other possibility is that they don’t know that there can be alternative variants based on the machine’s production code.
Ok …?
Not that eSpares ever get it wrong of course being so knowledgeable with so many skilled staff. 😆
Well, obviously I have no inside / political connection with them other than being a satisfied customer. The parts came through as promised and I was kept informed re the order progress by email. The particular ‘operator’ I delt with seemed to know what I wanted and was curtious and efficient. I have since found the prices were a bit high but you can’t expect cheap and good service can you!
Electrolux products often have several variants over the lifetime of a model number and they can be wildly different.
Understood.
Email Dave on spares@ukwhitegoods.co.uk with the model number, PNC number and the parts needed. You’ll likely find they’re cheaper as well. But, if it’s a welded tank there will be no spares available other than a full tub group and no information on the spares either.
So the two part tub that’s listed as a spare for my machine is different to the two parts that have obviously been glued together on my machine?
ISE performance is good, 5 better, 10 better still. Whether the 2 is as good as the Zanussi I can’t say as I haven’t tested a Zanussi in a long while now. Without comparing them back to back it’s hard to judge performance.
Well, some feedback for you then .. ignoring the sounds of a Chinook landing in the kitchen when it’s spinning the clothes I’ve tested so far come out clean enough and that’s all we ask of a machine.
Anyway, I’ll email Dave as you suggest and see what he comes up with. If he can’t help I’ll get them from eSpares
All the best ..
T i m.
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