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Re: ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty cla
The prompt to take legal action you know will not be taken up due to the sums involved.
Personally, I’m not trying to sleight you unnecessarily.
I am more than prepared to hear reason.
The issues I struggle with are –
– promises regarding warranty and Escrow funds. I think they have disappeared or did not exist, there is currently no other reasonable explanation.– The large presence you had across this product in promoting it, backing it, being named on the contested warranty document and the constant refusal to really take responsibility (things have gone wrong, but absolutely none seem to be due to you – who are all these other people?)
– Your negative comments about customers being partly to blame for all this, this incenses me – I AM NOT to blame for this.
– That you admit to be a director of the company but now seem to wish to hold NO responsibility.
Some of the replies you give are the type heard each week on watchdog.
To your great credit, you continue to allow very difficult discussions to continue on this forum and I really do think that is honourable. I’m happy that those reading will make their own conclusions, and I know you have many friends on this site who rate you highly.
It is only the elements above, regarding ISE and promises made that I have issues with.
Re: ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty cla
Oh,
and on checking the letter that came with my documentation for the machine, it was signed by you, as was the actual warranty document that is now under contention.
Re: ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty cla
Well, I appreciate your reply, I appreciate you trying to source spares.
The hands off position you explain does seem very different to the multiple posts and reassurances about the company on this and many other fora.
Sorry, also, I don’t wish to waste your time, it is likely much more valuable than mine.
I wonder who these people are who gave you and John information, that proved insufficient or incorrect – they seem to have misled you as much as the customer.
John certainly, it seems, lied on the fora directly about the security of warranties.
It’s a sorry affair. I’m sorry you lost money, “hands off” investors such as you describe yourself in this case can be at risk of this.
I still feel there must be paperwork in the business relating to the warranty if it existed, surely honour would make you wish to try and discover it, understand it and feed back?
Do you own or are you involved with UK whitegoods? The trading addresses of ISE and this company seem to be the same.
Re: ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty cla
Are you saying your fellow director left, you continued being part of the company but made no attempts to make yourself aware of the warranty arrangements or protected fund which was a large part of the marketing of the product?
You were still marketing machines until recently.
Did your colleague leave on good terms, were you concerned about his propriety and is he to blame for the disappearing warranties/funds?
Would you, as a company director, be prepared to at least try to find out who our warranties are with? (It is strange you don’t know)
I understand you have to stop trading if you are in an insolvent position.
You seem to separate yourself from some of the reponsibility for the warranty claims made, this may be reasonable but I wouldn’t be happy to do that were I a director of this company.
I appreciate there must have been difficulties, but I sense there is much more to this than meets the eye or is being explained. Please do not step back from previously giving reassurances about the product and warranty, that is not fair.
Could you furnish details of the administrator?
Presumably UKWhitegoods (I assume your company also) could easily make arrangements to at least source spares for people. Your posts can, unfortunately read as though you are no longer bothered?
I don’t wish to give you a hard time, but some of the posts are infuriating especially to customers who did nothing other than give you their business.
The blame and responsibilty seems to always lie elsewhere, whether it be now departed directors, customers causing issues, other companies not extending credit terms etc.
I do think the warranty and protected funds issue is as yet unexplained, simply saying the business is bust, there’s no one to administer claims seems to be just another way of saying no independent warranty ever existed. Same with these ESCROW funds. They simply seem not to exist, perhaps they never did?
Re: ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty cla
Why are people on this forum so keen to link this to failed window companies?
No, FENSA registered window companies have to provide 10 year insurance backed warranties to cover the eventuality of them going bust.
There were and have been specific reassurances given in this forum many times about the validity of (I) an insurance backed policy or (ii) an ESCROW type fund to specifically cover warranty issues in the event of company collapse.
You are right we will likely have to lump it. But not necessarily quietly, nor without at least question ing the propriety of the claims made previously.
These fora heavily promoted these machines and the “cast iron” guarantees given, in some ways the machine was marketed on these fora. It was a selling point to me – people in the trade, fed up with “throwaway machines” that break down and can’t be fixed, the provision of low cost parts for e future, etc.
Most of all, the promises of guarantees, protected even if the company went down – the company directors posted this directly on here. I’ve highlighted and bumped posts showing this.
It’s shady. Where is the money that was meant to be put in he ESCROW fund and where is the money that was supposed to buy insurance backed solid warranties?
Why are people not more shocked at the seemingly blaze and at times bizarre attitude to customers from previous directors posting in here? Where is the money that funded the protection that was purportedly sold? Has it been squandered and not protected. Where is the evidence that insurance products were ever bought, or did they simply not do that, try and keep repairs in house and then realise they couldn’t fund them?
It’s just supposition, but based on the scanty evidence of an escrow fund or insurance warranties that people can access one can only imagine what has gone on.
Since the minute I received a machine with no insurance documentation I have questioned this outfit. I asked questions, received reassurances and took the people posting in here involved with the company at their word.
My word is good, and I’m being careful not to be too personal. There will be customers rightly asking “where has that portion of my money gone that was supposed to provide warranty”. Who’s pocket is it in now?
Annoying as my posts may be, I’ve done nothing wrong. I have been honest. I have not misled anyone and am no charlatan.
Anyone involved with the company, just very simple questions – who were the machines insured with, where is the audited, protected ESCROW fund.
Until we know otherwise, this is not just bad business but possible shady business.
Re: ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty cla
Do we have the name of the administrator?
People with machines may want to write to them.
I believe the warranty had value and was purchased, this was how things were heavily marketed.
The administrator may give better advice on the legalities of claims and what may have gone on in this company?
One of the directors posting here seems to have no knowledge now of the warranties in place.
Seems odd.Re: Who provides ISE warranty?
Simply shows the assurances given about the insurance backed warranty. The OP simply asked what if ISE folds – he had concerns regarding the warranty as others had, he was reassurred that an insurance backed warranty was in place.
Not sure it can be interpreted in any different way.
Odd. As now the insurance backed warranty and escrow funds seem to have disappeared? They were promoted as being ring fenced and safe in the event of company decline.
Wonder where they’ve gone?
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
This was posted on here in response to concerns. No mention of being left high and dry if the company went bust. No, specific confirmation that warranty liabilities covered if trading ceased. This is not what is being said now.. It talks of a protected fund to cover consumers and an underwritten insurance policy prior to this scheme.
Just to add the the (broken) record. Something has gone wrong. Where are the ring fenced funds and insurance policies outlined below? Please see the paragraph regarding ISE going out of business and the reassurances given. No fund, no insurance policy?
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?Postby derbyhoppy » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:01 pm
Dear Sir,
As MD of ISE I will pick this one up.
Up to mid September 2010 all ISE machines were insured via broker with AXA. But since the financial crisis we have increasing problems receiving payment on claims.
To put that into context on the ISE10 we have claimed less than 10{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of what we had paid in premiums and had over 30{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of these claims rejected in some instances 18 months after we have paid the repairing agents. So we were buying the policies and paying the claims ourselves to receive a proportion of the money months later.
Also the premiums were based on the reliability of domestic machines. The 10’s have commercial carcasses and therefore the premiums were way in access of the liability yet the premiums were due to go up with the 1607W.
We therefore came to the conclusion that though insurance is a good idea for domestic machines such as the ISE5 and 2 it is not however cost effective for the 10’s.
On the advice of our accountant and lawyer we set up an ESCROW style account (similar to a company pension scheme) which we pay in to every time a machine is sold at the same level as we currently pay. We cannot touch this money and it is annually audited to ensure there is more than enough funds to cover our liability if we cease trading. This may sound a risk but had we done this for the 1606w (all of which are insured) the fund would now have a £180k surplus.
The above was briefed to all the selling agents at our conference at the end of September and is made clear on our new website which unfortunately has not yet gone live due to technical issues.
The terms and conditions on the 1607 are identical to before and if we go out of business you will still be covered, in fact the service you would receive were we to cease trading will be better than those people who would have to deal with an underwriter applying the letter rather than the spirit of the policy (something we currently shield our customers and agents from).
I hope this puts your mind at rest; however, if you feel mislead and given the fact the website is not yet been changed over I will refund your money and collect the machine if you no longer want it.
John Hopwood – MD ISE Ltd
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
I appreciate your philosophical approach. Thank you.
You are right, what can I do about it?
The warranty was something I thought I’d bought and paid for.
When Kwatt seems dismissive and somewhat seems to blame some customers (I ain’t ruined his business….) it riles me.
I’m more infuriated that parts may not even be available, you’d hope a business linked to a website that deals in parts would at least be hoping to provide reassurance re supply of parts.
Wouldn’t you?Re: Who provides ISE warranty?
Once it did. Fixed under warranty.
I paid a lot, for a machine sold on the basis of its longevity and eco credentials.
There was an explicit promise of an insurance based warranty.
The machine may now not even be repairable even at my own cost due to parts issues.
No, it’s not broke.
I hope it doesn’t.
My main issue is around the warranty which I thought I’d bought and paid for but seemingly does not exist.
I accept I’m going on a bit – I was convinced by posts on this website to go ISE not Miele. No doubt my frustration will eventually subside. I was reassured on these fora that I worried over nothing regarding lack of warranty credentials after delivery.
It’s a product heavily marketed initially on multiple fora and in the public domain. Seems reasonable to vent frustration in that same domain.
To be honest the local guy I bought it from seemed decent enough, just hope he’d do his best if it broke….Re: Who provides ISE warranty?
It was a good question even back in 2010.
Who does? Who did?
Did anyone?
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
You are a man who likes the last word, so do I but you can have it by posting after this.
The people who read the fora will judge.
Not that it matters. You win.
Your company got my cash, based on your assurances and trust and I’m the one with a washing machine with no warranty which now may not be repairable even at my own cost if it breaks down.I’ll take it away from the personal. It appears ISE as a company misled me.
Post next, the last word can be yours!
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
I haven’t made jibes. There are no insinuations.
I am sad for your financial loss and your staff.
People will read the comments you made, people will remember all the reassurances about the insurance backed warranty and ring fenced funds. I did not make these reassurances, I asked questions about these events. I think the reassurances were misleading.I am not a man to call names, nor slur anyone. I don’t think I’m doing that
I think I am honourable in how I behave. I stand by what I write on the fora.
You don’t appear to feel sadness for the customers particularly, do you blame those of us that bought and trusted in your product and business?
Will parts remain available so we can have repairs at our own cost now?
To say the insurance backed warranty exists but there is no one to administer it makes no sense and is essentially drivel. No usable insurance backed warranty ever existed did it? If it did it would still be available for me to call on as you’d have bought a policy to provide me with a 10 year warranty. That, unfortunately, seems to now have disappeared into thin air.
Regards,
Andy.
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
Do you remember my questions about the warranty?
Do you remember your long reassuring replies?
Are you in any way apologetic, saddened by this situation or do you blame everyone else.
I think your reassurances were less than truthful.
It’s rather upsetting to trust, invest and be treated like this.
Re: ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty cla
I’m sitting reading this with a 4 year old Ise 10. I still can’t work out if I still have a 10 year warranty, mine is the insurance backed warranty. I asked loads of questions after buying it when no warranty agreement came.
I found Kwatt difficult to pin down about the warranty and getting proof of the warranty I bought.
Was I right to find him obfuscative, random and was the potential problem hidden from customers asking direct questions about the safety of the warranty?
I’m shocked at some of the responses and the way the customer appears to be treated with contempt.
