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Depends where you are but £20-24K PA is not that uncommon these days and I have heard of one engineer getting £30K PA off the bat recently. With bonuses etc it is possible with some to earn £35K PA or more so I’m told.
Not enough of them about I’m afraid so the salaries have been pushed up.
K.
I suspect the latter ajp, there seems to be a real shortage of skills out there and the problem is getting worse as time goes on.
I know that if I was offered a decent way out of this trade I’d be extremely tempted to take it as it would probably mean a better pay with less hassles. But I guess there are jobs which may well be worse as well. 😕
Put it this way, with the hassles like you get like those in this thread you have to ask at times, what’s the point?
K.
Re: Who needs whom ?
And for my 1000th post, which I think just shows how sad a git i really am 😉 ….
WP’s sprang up in the mid to late eightes (IIRC) simply because there were a few manufacturers that were not big enough to cope with administering their own service operations, even with the use of agents. The idea was mooted that it would be easier and cheaper to use a WP that handled all the admin and call handling. Of course manufacturers like Elecrolux also latched onto this idea and tried to get in on that market as well to shore up their own service networks, the problem for them was decreasing margins and less cash to fund service, the cost of which was rising exponentially in the UK in line with salaries etc.. Like others they also tried direct service in some areas and, as we all told them it would, it failed causing massive damage and fallout in the trade at the time.
Of course when someone like Lux goes down such a path then others follow, but to be fair Whirlpool tried a different approach and made all their engineers (or almost all) “Service Partners”, self-employed but still goverened by Whirlpool thus removing the burdens that they had as employers but retaining a workforce. Nice ploy, but it also failed.
Then we have GIAS/Candy/Hoover which is now a seemingly British run Italian company (in joke 😉 ) which has clawed all the work it can back in-house passing out the cr4p it doesn’t want or can’t do to ISDAL etc., and then we get saddled with it.
So now for all the rest the WP’s come to the fore and become many an independent’s core contract work and it’s trundled on like that for several years. This is also doomed to fail IMHO, just look at what’s happening around us right now.
The only work passed out by any of the major manufacturers is the rubbish they don’t want that has a high price tag attached to it or it’s kept in-house. ANY manufacturer with employed engineers is only passing us the rubbish from their table, crumbs if you like, that they cannot do or justify the cost of gearing up to do. There are of course the odd exceptions that prove the rule but they are few and far between.
As a loyal ex-Candy agent I refused to do any work for them until they eitther get realistic with the cost of passing me their cr4p work or they get back to some form of sensible arrangement. Also one of the reasons I’ve refused to work for two WP’s since they are only pandering to this mentality by taking that work on. But then they don’t have the cost of the double visit, they don’t get a pasting from the customer when you get the call after someone else has attended twice to attempt a repair and they don’t have the hassles of dealing with the spares and total lack of any cohesive technical information. Oh no, that’s our lookout!
And therin lies the great failing of the WP’s.
They cannot offer (as of writing) the same backup as a manufacturer does, nor do they seem to care if they do or not in many cases. They simply cannot compete with the resources that a manufacturer has, even if they purport to in order to secure those jobs. But for them it’s a numbers game, they get paid per job regardless, they have little more costs from one call to the next whereas we do and vastly more than the WP it would appear to me.
I’m sure they too have problems, but they won’t tell us what they are so we have to make assumptions.
But you’re right Martin the WP’s in the middle only drives the cost of service down at our end and up for the client, regardless of what some will tell you. There is simply no other logical conclusion.
K.
Yes and Mark’s review is now back online, sorry there was a slight hiccup there yesterday, resolved now.
K.
iamamoose, I doubt anyone will have the information to hand tonight since we’ve all gone home for the evening 😉 but no doubt you’ll get an answer in the morning.
The spare should definately be available easily and readily though from several of us on here.
K.
Re: What would you recommend?
Dave_Conway wrote:I wonder if the more recent models have the name Merloni on them somewhere.
Na, that bit of equipment looks set to last more than 18 months! 😉
K.
Re: Fighting Back
andy_art_trigg wrote:Don’t forget that any contract that is unfair and unreasonable can be deemed invalid in UK law even if someone has signed it.
A fact not lost on me. 😉 😈
K.
There is also that possibility Richard and some damn fine suggestions they are too.
I’d lay odds that none of us carry out any form of credit checking at all or carry any insurance against bad debts. You’re dead right though, it could well be a useful addition for all of us.
I’m more than happy to expand on this if there’s the interest to do so.
K.
Probably, but the whole idea of “Catch 22” and “one Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest” is kinda played out these days and no-one would believe that a lot of the stuff we put up with is fact not fiction. 😉
K.
Re: Electrue/NESN
Rudolph_Hucker wrote:It appears an agent that rather relies on the contract has been terminated, or absorbed by having work taken away from them. I was anticipating this, but I was hoping it would not happen. Are they, N.E.S.N. (aka Smelly old Town Politburo) on a crusade I wonder.
I do believe that the term “witch hunt” has been banded about in that direction on several occasions, could this be a result of it?
The burning question is though, how many of you are in a position where one work provider could force you into th esituation illustrated? Can you get out of it without losing all that YOU have grafted hard to earn?
I’ve been there and had it done to me and I can tell you first hand that it’s not an easy thing to go through and my best wishes go out to AJP. 🙁
Rudolph_Hucker wrote:This may be a repeat of what some other work providers and manufacturers have done in the past, pull the rug out and leave you high & dry. Two large Italian manufacturers with U.K. interests have done just that. They used agents where it was cost effective to them, paid the bare minimum and when they took over a British platform, gave their agents notice. We all know who they are; the one good thing was they did settle their accounts.
Yes and we’re always caught in the crossfire with bugger all protection as well, hence the “Fighting Back” thread, the first step in protecting ourselves as much as we can.
Yes, I know of the two you’re reffering to there Rudi and they didn’t settle all their accounts with everyone, I can assure you. Just as with WP’s in the past that have gone to the wall I see similar patterns emerging here, slow and incomplete payments, little comunication, general acts of desperation and trying to claw in as much revenue as possible. I have heard tell of many invoices paid to a WP by clients but that not being passed on to the agent concerned that’s actually done the work, not good news.
Rudolph_Hucker wrote:No doubt this ex N.E.S.N. agent has been careful and kept a clean nose, but that holds little water these days. I suspect there was a staffing level that reflected the volume of work, and now the payroll charges are seemingly too high. This is the only thing that keeps some of these poor agents remaining faithful. Yes I mean too busy running around in circles, keeping up with the demands and failing to see the big picture.
Irrespective of the nature of the split from the WP, the WP should honour any outstanding amounts owed. However, from first hand experience I can tell you that NESN do not do so and I have proof of that in black and white if anyone wants it. That on top of holding you to a contract which is tantamount to restrictive practise IMO, disgusting really.
Rudolph_Hucker wrote:This will give the agent time to re-assess the business and put things into place in order to run it properly and come out of it with honours. To anybody who is considering moving away from such a work provider or has been forced out, have a word with an accountant, who will advise accordingly or even refer you to a business adviser; you will be pleasantly surprised at what you will learn.
Yes, or simply browse this and a couple of other threads in the forums.
It is sad though that this reflects on others within the industry that do run good and honourable businesses.
Rudolph_Hucker wrote:Yes the shock is there, and no doubt you will be owed money. However, hang on in there and give it a little time, you may be surprised at the outcome. The main downside will be the monies owed, and there will be serious delays on that.
Yep, kiss what you’re owed goodbye, I had to accept that I’d never see a good chunk of what I’m owed. 🙁
Thankfully other companies that were good and decent to work for bore with us during the hard times and I appreciate it fully from companies like MFI, Anglo and others.
Rudolph_Hucker wrote:Expect rejections to increase as well as “inspections” and various reasons to delay payment. They will try and extract the last drop of blood.
Oh yes won’t they just!
Rudolph_Hucker wrote:It is very difficult to terminate with this particular work provider.
Nigh on impossible to get a clean break as they have you over a barrel for a long time after you terminate.
Rudolph_Hucker wrote:Unless you have the guts to make that decision, if they terminate you, then they have saved you the trouble. Had you finished with them: you would have been in a very poor situation as they would throw their terms and conditions at you; supported by a solicitors letter, reminding you that you are not allowed to seek other work. In other words, they will watch you starve.
Yes they will and AFAIK, they have done so, the events quoted is an obvious example. My own case is another.
Rudolph_Hucker wrote:What has happened to you is likely to kick in one day for some other companies of a similar integrity as yourself. I’ve said this many times, some of these work providers are driven by high demands, in this case the DSG criteria. Regretfully as long as they are dealing with this contract, they are being dragged down to the same level.
Yes there is some merit there, but is it DSG that are driving the mentality or is the quest for more volume which equates to more revenue for the WP? I suspect that the latter has a large part to play in this, just simple unadulterated greed.
Rudolph_Hucker wrote:They, the work providers have become very aggressive of late and this has been allowed to filter down to ground level. They are making more enemies than friends. Something else, despite us as a group suggesting they submit a defence and stand up for themselves, they have never taken that option. In other words, they either don’t have a case, or think they are too powerful and have their heads in the sand.
Yep, they are more than welcome to reply publicily to any of the comments anywhere in these trade forums.
Rudolph_Hucker wrote:Once upon a time, N.E.S.N. were respected in their field especially in the brown goods sector, where they started. Regretfully they have stooped to a new low in the last 12 months. This has come about due to staff changes near the top and the nature of the beast that feeds them. Until there is a change of leadership, throw out this major contract as unworkable and they start showing some respect, then the situation will deteriorate even lower.
Yes NESN were well respected, but times change. You never know maybe they’ll save the day, but the way that agents have been leaving of late you have to assume that it’s not going to happen on the whitegoods side.
Rudolph_Hucker wrote:The rest of this industry has been looking at this with some interest of late, and agree that there has been serious injustices going on. Other work providers and insurers have become increasing aware what this company is doing to the industry, and they don’t like it either. There is concern that service agencies will be pulled down, and there will be fewer repairers with the expertise and skills to service the needs.
Yes they have indeed and there are even some of NESN’s clients on here and I’m sure that they find all this very interesting as I’m absolutely positive that they will not get the feedback from NESN that they get in here.
The results of NESN’s actions, amongst others, could be devestating for the trade and I really don’t think they realise it at all, or the damage they are doing. But what are they all going to do when we’re all gone if it comes to that?
Pay British Gas £80 a call? 😕
K.
