DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPENED?

[CHRISX]

“Hello All”,

I did a Full Defrost on my Bosch Classixx `Frost Free` Fridge Freezer Model No: KGU306005GB – because the Temperature Display lights started Flashing [plus slight buzzing sound]intermittently with usually Months [sometimes Years] between events – and the Fridge Freezer was not working at those times – I was advised that a Sensor was probably Iced up and the Appliance needed a Full Defrost.

I turned off the Power – cleared the Fridge and Freezer of all food and drink and removed the Freezer drawers and left the Doors wide open for over 24 Hours – the Kitchen temperature during this period was about 30 degrees [Day and Night] because I was away from Home and the windows were closed.

After the Defrost process I put back the Freezer Drawers and Food [still Frozen] and some items into the Fridge and turned the Appliance back on again – some VERY strange things then occurred:

Obviously the Red Warning light was On and the Fridge Freezer needed to `Start Up` / Circulate the Gas etc.

BUT – about every 2 Minutes there was a loud `Click` and the Display lights went Off and then back On again within a couple of seconds.

This happened every couple of Minutes for at least over 80 Minutes – possibly up to nearly 2 Hours.

I know that this did NOT happen when the Appliance was first `Commissioned` after purchase – or when it has been Turned Off / Defrosted previously and then turned On again – I would have remembered this if it had happened.

After a couple of Hours the `Off / On` of the display lights had stopped but the Temperature display lights were Flashing and making a slight `buzzing` sound – this was the same as the original problem that caused Me to carry out the `Full Defrost`.

HOWEVER HERE IS SOMETHING THAT I FIND VERY STRANGE:

I found out accidentally that if I opened the Freezer Door the Temperature Display lights STOPPED Flashing and the Appliance made the usual noise that You would hear when the Compressor is operating – How was that happening ?

Basically the Fridge Freezer seemed to be operating `correctly` with the Freezer Door OPEN – but when it is closed the Temperature Display Lights Flash and the Appliance does NOT work !

I then wedged the Freezer Door open about 50mm to see if after a couple of Hours I could close the Door and perhaps the Temperature Display lights would stay illuminated – even to just keep the Food frozen until I could act on whatever Advice I got on here.

Obviously I knew that this could not continue as it would be detrimental to the Freezer – I was just `clutching at straws` because of not wanting to have the Freezer Food ruined.

After a couple of Hours I closed the Freezer Door and the Fridge Freezer was working – No Temperature Display lights Flashing – the Appliance seems to be working O.K. for the last 4 Days.

Could You please advise Me what could have caused these very strange malfunctions – after just a `Full Defrost` ?

I do realise that I will probably NOT have rectified the Defrosting of the Freezer Sensor as the Temperature Display lights started flashing again after the Defrost – I have been advised to carry out a 48 Hour Full Defrost If / WHEN the Display lights start Flashing again.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions / information.

Regards,

Chris

[Garywasher]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

Hi Sounds like the water from the defrost has overfilled the container which is situated on top of the motor and consequently ran into the electrics 💡

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

“Hello Garywasher”,

Thanks for your message.

There definitely was not any overflow / excessive Water from the Water container – there is a very slight slope on my Kitchen Floor away from the Wall at the rear of the Fridge Freezer and any water would definitely have run out from below the front of the Appliance.

Also when I pulled the Appliance away from the wall about 300mm to try and see into the container after these strange events there was no Water in it – obviously a large amount of water could not have evaporated from the container in just a few Hours.

Also I would guess that IF Water had gone onto the `Electrics` that would have immediately Tripped the Kitchen MCB within my Electrical Consumer Unit and there would not have been ANY further `Off / On` of the Temperature display lights – these MCB`s are so sensitive that they Trip when a Light Bulb [`Lamp`] Blows.

The Fridge Freezer seems to have been working O.K. for 4 Days so I don`t think that the `Electrics` have been compromised.

I am still interested in some information about what could have caused these malfunctions.

For example – How could Opening / wedging open the Freezer Door cause the Freezer to operate – while Closing it caused the Freezer to NOT work because this `enabled` the Temperature display lights to Flash and that indicates that there is a `Fault` and the Appliance is NOT Operating – ?

Thanks for your reply I appreciate it.

Regards,

Chris

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

“Hello All”,

I am surprised and a bit disappointed that I have not received some more replies.

I thought that the causes of the malfunctions that I described in my message above would be identifiable ?

THESE MALFUNCTIONS HAPPENED AFTER DOING A FULL DEFROST [24 HOURS] WHEN TURNING THE APPLIANCE BACK ON:

What could cause the Temperature display lights to go Off and On again [with a loud Click from behind the Appliance] every 2 Minutes for over 80 Minutes ?

How could Opening / wedging Open the Freezer Door cause the Freezer / Appliance to Operate – BUT Closing it cause the Freezer / Appliance to NOT Operate and the Temperature display lights to flash ?

I am hoping that some Refrigeration Engineers will be able to identify these malfunctions from knowing the `Operating Sequence` and the Control components of the Fridge Freezer – ?

Regards,

Chris

[Martin]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

Evening CHRISX 😀

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

“Good Evening Martin”.

Chris

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

“Hello All”,

As I cannot get any answers to my questions about the strange malfunctions on my Bosch Fridge Freezer after a `Full Defrost` I have to conclude that No-one knows how any of the malfunctions could have been caused.


I am disappointed – You would never get this / `NO response` to Technical questions on a Heating & Plumbing Forum – or on a Electrical Forum – or on a Forum for Registered Gas Engineers [ONLY Gas Safe Registered Gas Engineers participating].

On those types of Forums You would definitely get some Heating Engineers / Electricians / Plumbers or Gas Engineers [Professional / Registered ONLY participating] responding.

Although as on here some `Remote Diagnosis` is often difficult if not impossible without being able to carry out Electrical Testing of components – there would be Heating Engineers – Electricians & Plumbers replying usually with knowledgeable suggestions of what could be causing the malfunctions on whatever was being asked about – especially if the Questioner / OP seemed to be likely to understand the answers / suggestions.

Perhaps there are some Refrigeration Engineers on here who DO know what could have caused the various malfunctions that I described but they will NOT reply to Me for some reason – perhaps they don`t want to speculate because of possible disagreements with their fellow Members ?

As I am a Heating Engineer, Registered Gas Engineer and Plumber with many qualifications and over 40 Years of experience in my Trades I do NOT agree with the premise that `It would do me no good to know what could have caused these malfunctions` – as a Refrigeration Engineer would be required to rectify further problems.

I would be able to understand anything that could be explained to Me about my Fridge Freezer malfunctions.

Regards,

Chris

N.B: In case someone misunderstands:

When I mention Gas Engineers on a Forum – They would NOT be advising the Public or other Trades – they are usually on a Plumbing & Heating Forum BUT within a section which can only be accessed by Gas Safe [UK Gas Safety Registration Organisation] Registered Gas Engineers / Gas Installers – the Forum requires proof of an Engineer`s Registration with Gas Safe.

The Registered Gas Engineers section hosts Forum questions and discussions between ONLY those Gas Engineers – NOT from the Public or from Plumbers or other Trades.

[Martin]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

But Chris, we advised you first of all do a full defrost but when questioned over your apparent attempt it was clear the procedure wasn’t completed effectively. Even to the point where you never bothered to pull the appliance out to check the vital components behind it or to observe any water deposit in the water tray above the compressor.

Your qualifications puts you in a good position to realise this form of action necessary. If you glance at your user instruction booklet it suggests that every year or two you should dust the condenser. To do that simple task involves pulling the appliance clear of any kitchen furniture. I’m guessing that perhaps that too was overlooked?

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

“Hello Martin”,

Thanks for your reply.

My Heating, Gas, Electrical and Plumbing Qualifications did NOT enable Me to know that a `Frost Free` Fridge Freezer Defrost might produce an amount of Water that would require the Appliance to be pulled away from the Wall and the Water container observed to ensure that water did not overflow onto other components.

The words `Frost Free` [and `Auto Defrost`] suggested to Me that there would NOT be any ICE to Defrost – I thought that I was attempting to `Thaw` a Freezer Sensor which had possibly `Iced Up` within the Wall / Insulation of the Freezer – therefore hardly any Water would be produced.

I have asked some work colleagues whether they knew that a `Frost Free` Fridge Freezer needed to be pulled out from the Wall enough to observe whether there was going to be excessive `Melt Water` during a Full Defrost and take precautions to prevent a possible Water Overflow onto other components:

These people were – a Heating Engineer – an Electrician – a Mechanical Surveyor and an Architect – NONE of these well Educated / well Qualified / Sensible People KNEW that this would be necessary – ALL were of the [now known to be incorrect] opinion that `Frost Free` meant that there would NOT be any excessive `Melt Water`.

As this point was NOT `Obvious` to Us Engineers – Electrician – Architect and Surveyor I suggest that if You advise a `Full Defrost` of a Frost Free Fridge Freezer to someone you make clear to them exactly what needs to be done regarding pulling out the Appliance to observe the Water container etc.

Just as Your Qualifications as a Refrigeration Engineer / White Goods Engineer would NOT enable You to know everything about Gas / Heating Appliances – I did NOT know that a `Frost Free` Fridge Freezer might produce a Build Up of Ice and an excessive amount of `Melt Water` when being Defrosted – until YOU informed Me AFTER I tried to carry out the Full Defrost.

Your Guess about pulling out the Appliance for dusting the Condenser is correct – as I have been working Overseas for most of each Year for the last 7 Years this has been overlooked by Me for about 4 Years [it has been cleaned a couple of times in the past] – although having looked at it a few Days ago there was no large build up of Dust – I will be removing the small amount of dust by Vacuuming etc. at the Weekend when I can get help to move the Appliance right out from the Wall / Cabinets.

Thank You for mentioning it – although I know that You did so in a Sarcastic manner / to try and reinforce your description that I had carried out the Full Defrost incompetently / incorrectly.

I note that You still either WILL NOT or CANNOT comment about the very strange malfunctions that occurred when I turned the Fridge Freezer back On after the 24 Hour Defrost – why are You taking this stance ?

IF as a Refrigeration Engineer You do have some insight on what MAY have happened – deliberately `withholding` your theories from Me is strange behaviour from an Expert on a Forum.

Regards,

Chris

[Martin]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

I’m pleased then that you eventually grasped what a full defrost entails.

Very often frost free fridge freezers develop a huge built-up of ice in the evaporator unit when the auto defrost fails to operate effectively. This can cause the electronic temp sensor and the fan to malfunction and so on. Only a full defrost can rid that ice build-up and it can take in excess of 24 hrs in order to do so.

The drain pipe from the evaporator that leads to the compresser tray will often be blocked with ice preventing any water to escape out of the back. Only when the ambient temperature rises sufficient to start the melting process will water then slowly drain down that pipe. So much water in fact that it would easily overflow the tray and onto the kitchen floor.

No such event has occurred in your case, that you have made apparent in your many multi-colourful replies. From which we can conclude that either there was no ice build-up of any significance. In which case a very small amount of water would still be evident in that water tray. OR, you didn’t allow enough time for the defrosting to start.

Pull it out and a try again with that full defrost and report back if you will. 😀

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

“Hello again Martin”,

Thanks for your reply and for writing a few more details about the Defrost – although not commenting on most of what I wrote.

I `eventually grasped the Defrost details` because of the ridiculous situation of having to write Hundreds of words in messages about what happened and find out those details from You AFTER the Defrost attempt – instead of You informing Me about those `details` when You advised that I carry out a `Full Defrost`.

Something else that would NOT have occurred to Me about the `Full Defrost` is that 24 Hours in a Room Temperature averaging 30 Degrees Day and Night [All Windows closed as I was away from Home] would NOT be enough Time for the Defrost of a Sensor to complete even if there was an Ice build up.

I am sure that You are correct that there was a Freezer Temperature Sensor that had `Iced Up` over the Years causing it to intermittently malfunction – and carrying out the Full Defrost was to `Thaw Out` the Sensor.

I would have thought that whether or not there had been a large amount of Ice built up in the Evaporator the Sensor would have `Thawed` in the 30 Degree temperature for 24 Hours – OR is the Freezer Insulation so effective that it did not ? [remembering that the Temperature display lights started Flashing again after the `Defrost`].

I would appreciate your confirmation or otherwise whether the Freezer Sensor should have been able to `Thaw Out` within the 24 Hours at 30 Degrees – ?

Regarding carrying out a longer Defrost – 48 / 72 Hours – IF the Fridge Freezer does not malfunction again beforehand I will have to leave this until the Winter giving Me enough time to consume the Frozen Meat etc. – and so that I can have the Fridge not working without causing difficulties with the Chilled Food / Dairy products / Milk etc.

I will try to come back to this thread and post an Update at that time.

Regards,

Chris

[Martin]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

I thank you for appreciating my help. Given voluntarily whenever I can possibly afford to find the time. 😀

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

Martin wrote:I thank you for appreciating my help. Given voluntarily whenever I can possibly afford to find the time. 😀

Martin – I have appreciated your Help and as You have seen I stated that many times – But I still cannot understand your insistence on NOT commenting on the Strange / seemingly `Temporary Malfunctions` that I described happening when I turned the Fridge Freezer On after attempting to `Fully Defrost` it.

I feel that what happened was Unusual enough to merit at least some comments as to what could have caused the `Malfunctions`.

There must have been a sequence of events / component malfunctions that caused what I described.

And as I mentioned in a previous message to You – there seems to be a `Forum Etiquette` on here that if You reply to a thread no-one else will so I cannot get ANY response to my descriptions / questions on here.

Regards,

Chris

[Martin]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

CHRISX wrote:And as I mentioned in a previous message to You – there seems to be a `Forum Etiquette` on here that if You reply to a thread no-one else will so I cannot get ANY response to my descriptions / questions on here.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Many of my forum colleagues AND members of the general public are free to add their comments and advice at ANY TIME. Free from constraints or censorship should the need arise.

I firmly believe your problem fridge needs a full defrost for the reasons I have stated over and over again, I see no point in speculating otherwise. Much like a heating engineer on being informed that a gas boiler is making banging noises and the pipes are rattling. He then suggests the owner bleed the radiators yet the owner then fails to bleed them all because he can’t reach every one. Then he insists the fault is something else!!!

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

“Hello Martin”,

It is OBVIOUS that other Members will NOT reply to Me because they do NOT want to be in a position of either not agreeing with You or writing something that makes You disagree with them.

Of course Members are `Free to write whatever they wish` – BUT they will NOT get involved in `Discussions` that You are participating in – this is the `Forum Etiquette` that I mentioned and I am absolutely convinced that this happens.

UNLESS You are the ONLY Refrigeration Engineer on here – ?

Your example about the Heating Engineer is NOT a valid point with reference to OUR correspondence as I am NOT questioning whether your advice to carry out a longer `Full Defrost` of my Fridge Freezer is correct.

I am NOT trying to state that You are wrong about the ORIGINAL Malfunction – the Temperature display lights Flashing – caused by an `Iced Up` Freezer Sensor.

I have NO DOUBT that You are absolutely correct that my Fridge Freezer needs a longer `Full Defrost` – perhaps 48 – 72 Hours – I have NEVER tried to contradict this – although I was surprised that 24 Hours at 30 Degrees was not long enough to Defrost the suspected `Iced Up` Sensor.

Our `Sticking Point` is that You have refused to comment on the questions that I asked about the Strange / `Temporary Malfunctions` [hopefully Temporary as they only manifested just after the `Defrost].

These were ADDITIONAL / very strange Malfunctions – separate to your advice about carrying out a `Full Defrost` to try and cure the Temperature display lights Flashing / Fridge Freezer not working.

Regards,

Chris

P.S: The MAIN cause of `Banging` from a Boiler is that there is a build up of Limescale within the Heat Exchanger – the Metal of the Heat Exchanger expands and Contracts differently from the Limescale – this causes the `Banging Sound` / perceived `Pipework Rattle` which is transmitted through the Heating System Pipework and Radiators.

Chris

[Author]

Posts