DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPENED?

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

kwatt wrote:So essentially then, you’ve not spoken to anyone at Bosch Home Appliances who are a completely separate entity to gas boilers. They may as well be completely different companies in practice.

Unlike the gas industry, there is no compulsion whatsoever for an appliance manufacturer to offer any technical support in any way to either the trade or public and, Bosch do not offer this.

We do not have access to technical documentation either.

Therefore it is almost certain that, unless a friendly BSH employed engineer reads this or, someone with a similar experience happens to read it, that nobody will help. Not because they perhaps might not have been able to but, because they simply lack the information to do so.

K.

“Hello Kwatt”,

The Worcester Bosch Gas Boilers Technical Engineer very kindly researched within the Worcester Bosch Group whether there was a Refrigeration Appliance Technical Department and then phoned Me back to let Me know that there is not.

As I know Him he also suggested that I describe the strange malfunctions that occurred after the Defrost of my Fridge Freezer in an Email so that if He found anyone who could comment on them they could read My descriptions – He did not find anyone who could help.

As Worcester Bosch Group manufacture MANY products the White Goods / Refrigeration Appliance Manufacturing Company is undoubtedly a different entity but people like Engineers in the Gas Boiler Technical Department do have access within the Group to be able to find out information like – Is there a Refrigeration Appliance Technical Department ?

I have dealt with various Companies Technical Departments over the last 40 Years – I know better than to be telephoning a `Book an Engineer` Call Centre and expecting to obtain Technical Advice – or to telephone a Company that is within a large Group and speak to the wrong people.

Regards,

Chris

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

r600a wrote:Or !!!

If a customer wanted their gas appliance repaired then they would call you.. You would then go out and test the components and diagnosis the fault.

Soooo. Why not get your local refrigeration engineer to do the same ? We aren’t in front of the appliance we can’t see the actual fault or test all the different components or where their is frost or not.

Sorry for being blunt but help can only go so far.

Bryan

“Hello Bryan”,

Thanks for your message.

You are obviously another Member who as Kwatt described has been put off fully reading my messages / replies because of my style of writing / posting very long messages with Multi-coloured paragraphs as You have missed a significant point:

The `Strange Malfunctions` were ONLY occurring on the Day that I turned On the Fridge Freezer after the `Full Defrost` – during the first few Hours after turning the Appliance back On.

These malfunctions have not occurred since – as You know it has not been possible for Me to get any answers on here from my written descriptions and that may well be the case if I described the malfunctions to ANY Refrigeration Engineer.

You have suggested that I call in a Refrigeration Engineer to look at an Appliance that is NOT exhibiting any malfunctions – ?

I don`t think that I will be doing that.

If it was possible that Electrically Testing some components might enable a `Diagnosis` of what had happened and that these malfunctions could happen again because of something that was found during the Testing I would consider it.

But I doubt that this would be the case as I have had no suggestions on here as to what possible `Component Malfunctions` could have caused the strange malfunctions.

The `Strange Malfunctions` that I described on here were unusual enough for Me to want to TRY and find out what could have caused them which is why I Posted this thread as a separate Topic from the original `Fridge Freezer Temperature display lights Flashing` one.

Anyone would have found what happened `Unusual` – I am A Heating Engineer / Gas Engineer / Plumber and I knew that what happened was VERY Strange which is why I wanted to `Ask the Experts` on here.

I find that it is best to know the facts about what one is replying to / writing about before suggesting an Engineers visit or `Being Blunt`.

Regards,

Chris

[SAMURI]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

Bosch do have a technical department but this is only available to Bosch appliance engineers and any direct contractors.

You said there was no water in the compressor tray so this points to the freezer drain is still blocked with ice.

It can take at least 48 hours to fully defrost a frost free freezer due to the insulation around the evaporator.

The most likely cause would be ice that has defrosted and unable to run away had turned to water and was shorting the sensor plugs.

By leaving the door slightly open this allowed the fan to dry the connections.

I have had customers before describe this fault after turning off and defrosting and found the unit still full of ice.

The best way to be sure it is fully defrosted and dry is to leave the appliance off for at least 48 hours with the doors fully open and check the compressor tray for water.

As I am sure in your job you can only tell with some faults by fully testing the appliance.

Martin :boops: sorry I mean Bob 😯

[SAMURI]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

:offtopic:

I have an old back boiler heating system and have an intermittent fault when the water heating only is turned on the upstairs radiators come on.

This only happens on the odd occasion and can go a few months without it happening.

Any Ideas as my friend who is a gas safe engineer has been unable to find the fault as it is so intermittent.

Bob

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

SAMURI wrote:Bosch do have a technical department but this is only available to Bosch appliance engineers and any direct contractors.

You said there was no water in the compressor tray so this points to the freezer drain is still blocked with ice.

It can take at least 48 hours to fully defrost a frost free freezer due to the insulation around the evaporator.

The most likely cause would be ice that has defrosted and unable to run away had turned to water and was shorting the sensor plugs.

By leaving the door slightly open this allowed the fan to dry the connections.

I have had customers before describe this fault after turning off and defrosting and found the unit still full of ice.

The best way to be sure it is fully defrosted and dry is to leave the appliance off for at least 48 hours with the doors fully open and check the compressor tray for water.

As I am sure in your job you can only tell with some faults by fully testing the appliance.

Martin :boops: sorry I mean Bob 😯

“Hello Samuri / Bob”,

Thanks for your message.

Martin also stated that the 24 Hour `Defrost` was obviously not long enough – although it was 30 Degrees in the Kitchen for all of that period of time – I completely believed what He stated.

I have never doubted His advice on that point – I was just surprised that this was the case because of the Temperature in the Kitchen.

Taking His and Your advice I will be carrying out a 72 Hour minimum `Full Defrost` in the Winter [longer if I can time it to coincide with some time away] – sooner if my Fridge Freezer malfunctions again.

When I described that Opening and Closing the Freezer Door was making the Fridge Freezer Work / Not Work it was literally as if the Freezer Door had an ON / OFF Switch on it – there was no delay – not even a second.

It was:

Door Open Compressor sounding and No Temperature display lights flashing.

Door Closed No Compressor sound and Temperature display lights flashing / Appliance NOT Working.

Thanks for your message Bob – any further details about the `Strange Malfunctions` that I described previously would be very welcome.

Regards,

Chris

[SAMURI]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

If the sensors have water on the plugs it can confuse the PCB as this is like a basic computer program, if it gets the wrong info it try’s to rectify the problem and gets confused.

Bob

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

SAMURI wrote::offtopic:

I have an old back boiler heating system and have an intermittent fault when the water heating only is turned on the upstairs radiators come on.

This only happens on the odd occasion and can go a few months without it happening.

Any Ideas as my friend who is a gas safe engineer has been unable to find the fault as it is so intermittent.

Bob

“Hello Bob”,

I am guessing You are giving this as a good example of how awkward it is to `Remotely Diagnose` ANY Appliance / System Malfunction – especially an intermittent fault I can only speculate:

I am GUESSING that the Heating Flow and Return Pipework from your Home`s Back Boiler rises up onto the 1st Floor before it reaches the Pump and Zone Valves – ?

Even with older Heating Systems / Back Boilers there should be System Zone Valves operating the Heating System and Hot Water System – either 2 individual Zone Valves or a `3 Port Zone Valve`.

Without knowing anything about your Home`s layout / Heating System Pipework etc. my first GUESS from what You described is that the Heating System Zone Valve [or the Heating Port on the 3 Port Zone Valve] which should be Closing when there is no demand for Heating is sometimes NOT fully closing.

And that is allowing enough Flow through the valve to Heat up the upstairs Radiators – BUT there is NOT enough Flow / Volume of water to be pumped to the Downstairs Radiators – even a small aperture within the Zone Valve would allow some Flow to the upstairs Radiators.

This could be happening intermittently and the only reliable way to rectify this would be to replace the Zone Valve.

When this happens again see if You can identify the Heating System Zone Valve and feel the Heat passing through it into the Heating System Pipework – on a 2 Port Zone Valve there is a small lever outside the Valve Box – try moving that to the Closed position and see if the Pipework / Radiators cool down.

As I am sure You asked this to show an example of how awkward ANY `Remote Diagnosis` is – If what I described is not the case a Heating Engineer would need to be able to look at the Heating System Pipework for another cause.

However regarding this as an example of the awkwardness of `Remote Diagnosis` I should mention that there are many ways that Heating Engineers could have configured your Heating System Pipework whereas all Appliances of the same Manufacturer and Model are manufactured with the same components.

I hope that this has been helpful for checking a future malfunction Bob.

Regards,

Chris

[SAMURI]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

The three port zone valve the old timer and the hot water stat has been replaced but the fault has still happened intermitatantly.

My friend has said it is an old system and it may be time to replace it.

I am not in a hurry to do this as I know the newer systems are not as reliable since PCB’s have been used.

This is the same in refrigeration and since PCB’s have been used you can get intermittent faults that are hard to trace.

Thanks for your suggestions I will pass them on to my friend next time it happens.

Bob

[admin]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

Hi Chris

I switched off my worcester bosch 34CDI and now i can’t get my central heating to work nor my hot water.. there are no error codes showing.the time and timer setting are set correctly please tell me what is faulty.

Bryan

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

SAMURI wrote:The three port zone valve the old timer and the hot water stat has been replaced but the fault has still happened intermitatantly.

My friend has said it is an old system and it may be time to replace it.

I am not in a hurry to do this as I know the newer systems are not as reliable since PCB’s have been used.

This is the same in refrigeration and since PCB’s have been used you can get intermittent faults that are hard to trace.

Thanks for your suggestions I will pass them on to my friend next time it happens.

Bob

“Hello again Bob,

As You described this intermittent fault is `How is the Heating Flow and Return being circulated around the upstairs Radiators` ?

If the Heating and Hot Water Cylinder Flow and Return pipework is installed correctly this Flow can only be going through the Heating Port of the 3 Port Valve which should not be happening when the Heating is not On – this is obviously unlikely as You have had the 3 Port Valve replaced.

However if the Heating and Cylinder pipework is NOT installed correctly there is the possibility that some form of Reverse Circulation is taking place – but that would have to be because of a cause which only happened intermittently – this could be an intermittent Electrical Control fault.

It is not unheard of that Programmers or Timeswitches develop intermittent faults which cause Heating Systems to come On when they were programmed to be Off – but that would cause ALL of the Radiators in your Home to be On – and You have had yours replaced.

I am NOT suggesting that your Home has a Heating System that has not been installed correctly – but IF the Back Boiler System was ever a `Pumped Heating and Gravity Hot Water` type these are notorious for the bodged / badly designed system alterations to make them into `Fully Pumped Heating & Hot Water` systems.

On rare occasions in the past I have found `Non Return Valves` on pipework [including hidden under the floor] which were obviously fitted to overcome Reverse Circulation problems caused by bad system design or to make the pipework installation easier – this would have been done by people who were NOT Heating Engineers.

IF You do have Non Return Valves fitted – regarding this intermittent fault – it is not impossible for the spring operated type of Non Return Valves to sometimes stick slightly open – enough to allow a reverse circulation path – I cannot state that this is the case in your Heating System.

Sorry that I cannot be definitive about this Bob – it does need a Heating Engineer to visit when the fault is occurring.

Regards,

Chris

[SAMURI]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

I over come the problem by turning off the upstairs radiator stats during the summer.

During the winter i do not mind if the radiators upstairs come on.

The same with your Bosch it would need an engineer to call when the fault is happening to find the reason for the fault

Bob

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

r600a wrote:Hi Chris

I switched off my worcester bosch 34CDI and now i can’t get my central heating to work nor my hot water.. there are no error codes showing.the time and timer setting are set correctly please tell me what is faulty.

Bryan

“Hello again Bryan”,

I wondered at first if this was a Joke – regarding the fact that You switched Off your Boiler and then there was No Heating or Hot Water – because it was switched Off – ?

You probably know that the Worcester Bosch CDi range includes Combi Boilers – System Boilers and Standard / Heat Only Boilers – as this means that there are different components configurations within these various Models and it would be impossible for Me [OR a Boiler Engineer] to remember the configurations and operating sequences from Memory – it would be impossible to try `Remote Diagnosis` as to why your Boiler is not working.

Even if I looked at the Boiler Service Manual I obviously could not know which component has malfunctioned.

The Worcester Boiler Engineers / Technical Department [and other Boiler Engineers] would state that without Fault Codes they could not remotely identify faults – but when they are at the Boiler they can Test various components.

Sorry that I cannot help Bryan – but perhaps You are just showing Me another example of `Impossible Remote Diagnosis` – ?

I would advise that You call for a Worcester Bosch Boiler Engineer direct from them – as opposed to someone from the Yellow pages – as the Worcester Engineer will have no motive for trying to tell You that various `Parts` need to be replaced.

Regards,

Chris

[admin]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

Hi Chris

You’ve answered your own questions that you’ve posted..stop being a twut. Remote diagnosis isn’t always possible !!

Bryan

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

SAMURI wrote:I over come the problem by turning off the upstairs radiator stats during the summer.

During the winter i do not mind if the radiators upstairs come on.

The same with your Bosch it would need an engineer to call when the fault is happening to find the reason for the fault

Bob

“Hello again Bob”,

The reason why I cannot involve a Refrigeration Engineer is that these Strange Malfunctions only occurred immediately after turning On my Bosch Fridge Freezer after an attempt at Defrosting the appliance.

What I described happened in the sequence that I described over a period of about 4 Hours – since that Day about 2 Weeks ago my Fridge Freezer has worked correctly.

The malfunctions were strange enough to Me to want to try and find out what could have caused them – hence I described them in as much detail as possible – I do understand that if no-one on here has ever experienced what I described happening on a Fridge Freezer that they would not know what caused the malfunctions.

I had thought that there would be some Domestic Refrigeration Engineers who from my descriptions and knowing the Fridge Freezer components and sequence of operation might have been able to work out what might have happened.

Bryan`s Boiler fault example has shown Me that this is not realistic – although there is no comparison to the amount of components in a High Efficiency / Condensing Boiler and a Fridge Freezer.

Thanks again for your messages Bob – I appreciate your interest.

Regards,

Chris

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

r600a wrote:Hi Chris

You’ve answered your own questions that you’ve posted..stop being a twut. Remote diagnosis isn’t always possible !!

Bryan

“Hello Bryan”,

As I wrote in my message to Samuri / Bob:

I had thought that there would be some Domestic Refrigeration Engineers who from my descriptions and knowing the Fridge Freezer components and sequence of operation might have been able to work out what might have happened.

Bryan`s Boiler fault example has shown Me that this is not realistic – although there is no comparison to the amount of components in a High Efficiency / Condensing Boiler and a Fridge Freezer.

I was obviously expecting too much.

Thanks for not even bothering to comment on whether your Boiler question was or was not a Joke / example of impossible remote diagnosis.

Chris

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