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Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
Bryan`s Boiler fault example has shown Me that this is not realistic – although there is no comparison to the amount of components in a High Efficiency / Condensing Boiler and a Fridge Freezer.
Well theres where you are wrong and to which we make our point !! there are at least 6-7 components that cause your fault !! simple.. I also have so many discussions where the so called gas safe engineers can’t be bothered to repair gas cooking appliances as it doesn’t make them as much money as central heating repairs..
We as refrigeration engineers don’t have grab by the balls attitude and do try to repair refrigeration but we aren’t magicians or able to telepathically read or know faults..
And yes I am also a gas safe engineer and fully qualified refrigeration engineer. And yes I am fed up with the so called gas safe engineers who can’t be bothered or deny the liability where they haven’t done their job correctly and leave the crap to be picked up by the manufacturers engineers when the so called gas safe engineers leave leaks on installations and then blame it onto the appliance.
Chris..your not a refrigeration engineer..you don’t know what your doing..you don’t listen to the advise given..stick to what you 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} know and stop being a stut.
Bryan
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
r600a wrote:
Bryan`s Boiler fault example has shown Me that this is not realistic – although there is no comparison to the amount of components in a High Efficiency / Condensing Boiler and a Fridge Freezer.
Well theres where you are wrong and to which we make our point !! there are at least 6-7 components that cause your fault !! simple.. I also have so many discussions where the so called gas safe engineers can’t be bothered to repair gas cooking appliances as it doesn’t make them as much money as central heating repairs..
We as refrigeration engineers don’t have grab by the balls attitude and do try to repair refrigeration but we aren’t magicians or able to telepathically read or know faults..
And yes I am also a gas safe engineer and fully qualified refrigeration engineer. And yes I am fed up with the so called gas safe engineers who can’t be bothered or deny the liability where they haven’t done their job correctly and leave the unicorn poo to be picked up by the manufacturers engineers when the so called gas safe engineers leave leaks on installations and then blame it onto the appliance.
Chris..your not a refrigeration engineer..you don’t know what your doing..you don’t listen to the advise given..stick to what you 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} know and stop being a stut.
Bryan
Bryan,
You have obviously either NOT read my previous messages about the `Strange Malfunctions` on my Fridge Freezer which I mentioned were `Temporary` / for a 4 Hour period when I turned it back On after attempting a 24 Hour Defrost – OR decided to completely ignore what I wrote.
I have NOT had ANY `Advice` about the malfunctions to `Ignore` !
From your comment You have obviously decided that ALL of the Components in my Fridge Freezer could have caused the Strange Malfunctions !
As for your comments about Registered Gas Engineers:
As You are a Gas Engineer you would know that `Boiler Repair Engineers` often ONLY deal with Boiler / Gas Appliance Repairs and often are NOT Heating Engineers – a lot of these Boiler / Gas Appliance Engineers were previously Gas Fitters / British Gas Fitters / Employees.I am a Heating Engineer AND a Gas Engineer BUT I do NOT work in the Gas Boiler / Gas Appliance Repair sector of the Gas Industry.
I know and agree that there also are MANY `Gas Installers` who work in the Repair sector who would have NO IDEA what was causing a fault on a Gas Appliance OR how to find it by Testing.These `parasites` are only interested in `Condemning` Appliances even if a fault could be repaired in minutes / inexpensively – and stating that the Appliance needs to be replaced.
They then charge High prices for a Boiler replacement – often over £3000.00 for a Boiler that can be purchased for under £1000.00 !
But having written that so do British Gas and other Boiler Installation Companies !
I AM NOT ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE !
I advised You [about the imaginary fault] to call in a Worcester Bosch Engineer – directly from Worcester so that YOU would NOT be put in a situation where You used one of these `Parasites` !
With regard to your comment that I am not a Refrigeration Engineer – I don`t know what I am doing – I don`t listen to advice etc.:I have NEVER stated that I wanted information about the Strange Malfunctions so that I could do anything to my Fridge Freezer.
I have not had any Advice about the malfunctions to Ignore !
I WANTED TO FIND OUT ABOUT THE `VERY STRANGE MALFUNCTIONS` ON MY FRIDGE FREEZER BECAUSE THEY WERE SO UNUSUAL – AND I THOUGHT THAT JUST ATTEMPTING A DEFROST SHOULD NOT HAVE CAUSED THESE.
I would like to end our correspondence with this or with your next comments.Chris
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
I’m as patriotic as the next person but, seriously, the red white and blue is completely doing my head in. And, then there’s the CAPS LOCK problem, you need to get you keyboard looked at Chris as it’s clearly broken. I’d get that looked at before you request further help with your fridge freezer.
And, it appears that you have BOLD stuck as well.
Which is deeply irritating as well as rude in internet parlance.
Please see this link for more detail: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etiquette_in_technology
I say this as it would appear that a not-so-subtle hint wasn’t quite enough.
K.
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
kwatt wrote:I’m as patriotic as the next person but, seriously, the red white and blue is completely doing my head in. And, then there’s the CAPS LOCK problem, you need to get you keyboard looked at Chris as it’s clearly broken. I’d get that looked at before you request further help with your fridge freezer.
And, it appears that you have BOLD stuck as well.
Which is deeply irritating as well as rude in internet parlance.
Please see this link for more detail: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etiquette_in_technology
I say this as it would appear that a not-so-subtle hint wasn’t quite enough.
K.
“Hello Kwatt”,At your suggestion I have Edited out most of the Coloured paragraphs in my message to Bryan.
To MY View the main points are no longer emphasised. – but I do agree that because most of my messages are long a lot of coloured paragraphs does make the Text look `fractured` and could be irritating to some people.
I am used to `Highlighting` important details in Colour when I write Instructions / messages for people who sometimes Work for Me [Not other Heating Engineers] – this has been the case for many Years – it is now almost a Habit.
Regards,
Chris
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
CHRISX wrote:Taking His and Your advice I will be carrying out a 72 Hour minimum `Full Defrost` in the Winter [longer if I can time it to coincide with some time away] – sooner if my Fridge Freezer malfunctions again.
In all the multicoloured and emboldened typing from you CHRISX it isn’t too surprising that I should miss the quotation above. That you are going to wait several months before attempting the very thing we advised could cure the failings of your fridge! Your poor fridge has now to endure the temperature extremes of the forthcoming summer months and perhaps an extended Indian summer to follow. I’ve heard of squirrelling food in the summer in preparation for the harshness of the winter months but that is just a natural animal instinct, or at least I thought was just confined to our wild woodland creatures.
To be honest I cannot see your fridge lasting that long and I would suggest, as someone trying to help here, that you do it sometime very soon.
Forgive my impertinence but I’m beginning to wonder how long customers have to wait in your part of the world in getting their gas boilers to work again?
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
Martin wrote:
CHRISX wrote:
Taking His and Your advice I will be carrying out a 72 Hour minimum `Full Defrost` in the Winter [longer if I can time it to coincide with some time away] – sooner if my Fridge Freezer malfunctions again.In all the multicoloured and emboldened typing from you CHRISX it isn’t too surprising that I should miss the quotation above. That you are going to wait several months before attempting the very thing we advised could cure the failings of your fridge! Your poor fridge has now to endure the temperature extremes of the forthcoming summer months and perhaps an extended Indian summer to follow. I’ve heard of squirrelling food in the summer in preparation for the harshness of the winter months but that is just a natural animal instinct, or at least I thought was just confined to our wild woodland creatures.
To be honest I cannot see your fridge lasting that long and I would suggest, as someone trying to help here, that you do it sometime very soon.
Forgive my impertinence but I’m beginning to wonder how long customers have to wait in your part of the world in getting their gas boilers to work again?
“Hello Martin”,You obviously either missed or forgot this:
When I posted my first thread about my Bosch Fridge Freezer `Temperature display lights Flashing` I stated that this malfunction was intermittent and had happened with Months – sometimes Years between events.
As my Fridge Freezer has been working O.K. since the Day of the Strange Malfunctions it was on the basis that a malfunction might not occur again for Months that I decided to wait until EITHER the Appliance malfunctioned again OR until later in the Year / Winter to carry out the 72 Hour [minimum] `Full Defrost – to give Me time to Eat the Food [mainly Meat] in the Freezer.I do NOT have anyone who could store quite a lot of Frozen Meat for Me – all of my Friends and Neighbours have young Families and their Freezers are Full up – I don`t want to be asking 3 or 4 People who don`t live near each other to take `Parcels` of my Frozen Food.
I do realise that what You explained about the Appliance having to go through the Summer temperatures and that could cause it to malfunction again soon in which case I would have to carry out the Defrost then.
I have mainly Meat / Steak in my Freezer and a Guesstimate would value it at between £250.00 and £300.00 – I don`t want to Give away or throw away that value of Food !I do NOT doubt that You are absolutely correct that it would be much better to carry out a `Full Defrost` / 72 Hour Defrost NOW – But I have explained about the Frozen Food situation.
I obviously do NOT want to have to get rid of Food which would amount to about 75{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of the Cost of a NEW Fridge Freezer to carry out the Defrost now.
As far as your comments about `Squirreling Away Food in Summer in preparation for Winter` – what a ridiculous thing to write – not everyone buys Food Weekly – Freezes it and then consumes that Food in the next Week or two.I purchased the Food in my Freezer – mainly Steak – over a few Weeks because I don`t want to be going to a Supermarket any more than I have to and I will not leave the selecting of Meat / Steak in particular to the choice of the `Pickers` who pick Groceries for Supermarket Shopping Orders / Deliveries.
Regarding your comment about People having to wait for Me to `Repair their Boilers` – You have missed another point:
I DO NOT WORK IN THE GAS APPLIANCE REPAIR SECTOR OF THE GAS INDUSTRY.People don`t have to wait any amount of time for ME to repair their Gas Boilers / Gas Appliances and I have conducted my Heating, Plumbing & Gas Installation Business in a very Professional manner for 30 Years.
Thank You for your involvement and advice on this and my other thread about my Fridge Freezer – but some of your comments as pointed out above are inapplicable and unnecessary.
ChrisRe: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
Chris
You are missing the point that everyone is making. WE as a whole cannot remote diagnos the fault on your appliance as it is NOT a common problem.
If it was a common problem or that any of us had come across then we would say so !Bryan
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
r600a wrote:Chris
You are missing the point that everyone is making. WE as a whole cannot remote diagnos the fault on your appliance as it is NOT a common problem.
If it was a common problem or that any of us had come across then we would say so !Bryan
Bryan,
I have NOT missed the point – I had hoped that my descriptions would enable a Domestic Refrigeration Engineer to know what component or combinations of components caused the Strange Malfunctions.
I wrote in a message to YOU that I had obviously been expecting too much.
Further to your comments about the fact that a Fridge Freezer has as many components / working parts as a High Efficiency Condensing Boiler – in which You seemed to be stating that EVERY Component in my Fridge Freezer could have been causing the Strange Malfunctions – I am attaching Screenshots of Diagrams showing the Components of a Worcester Greenstar CDi Combi Boiler.
You will be able to see that it has more than `6 or 7 Components`.
ChrisRe: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
Hi Chris
The new modern fridge freezer has many more components than a boiler one manufacture now uses 21 sensors and 5 PCB’s plus a display PCB, this is just on the electronic control side of it this is without including heaters, thermal cut outs fan motors etc then you have the refrigeration side of it.
I am unable to show you a diagram as the manufacturer will not supply one.
Some compressors now are not just on working or off not working, but are speed controlled depending on the demand required, this is also controlled by additional PCB’s.
I have worked on American style fridge freezers that also have ice makers,filtered water, TV screens in the door and some linked to the internet for Internet shopping with barcode readers for the contents inside.
One manufacturer now has a door hinge system where you can open the doors from ether side for right or left handed people to use.
I know your appliance has a lot less but it still has a programmed PCB and without being able to test it we can only make a guess at the fault.
We have to repair the above appliances with out any technical information and can only find out the problems by testing each component.
Even us as engineers we sometimes contact one another if we cannot find what is causing a fault we have not seen before in case another member has had the same problem and found the cause.
Some manufactures have common faults and diagnosis is easy others you have to test.
Gone are the days when it used to be a thermostat or compressor fault.
The members on this site help many people and give there time freely to try to help and do not deserve the comments you have made.
I think if you continue to wind up the engineers on this site any future problems you have may remain unanswered or may contain colourful language instead of text.
Best wishes
Bob
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
SAMURI wrote:Hi Chris
The new modern fridge freezer has many more components than a boiler one manufacture now uses 21 sensors and 5 PCB’s plus a display PCB, this is just on the electronic control side of it this is without including heaters, thermal cut outs fan motors etc then you have the refrigeration side of it.
Some compressors now are not just on working or off not working, but are speed controlled depending on the demand required, this is also controlled by additional PCB’s.
I have worked on American style fridge freezers that also have ice makers,filtered water, TV screens in the door and some linked to the internet for Internet shopping with barcode readers for the contents inside.
One manufacturer now has a door hinge system where you can open the doors from ether side for right or left handed people to use.
I know your appliance has a lot less but it still has a programmed PCB and without being able to test it we can only make a guess at the fault.
We have to repair the above appliances with out any technical information and can only find out the problems by testing each componant.
Even us as engineers we sometimes contact one another if we cannot find what is causing a fault we have not seen before in case another member has had the same problem and found the cause.
Some manufactures have common faults and diagnosis is easy others you have to test.
Gone are the days when it used to be a thermostat or compressor fault.
The members on this site help many people and give there time freely to try to help and do not deserve the comments you have made.
I think if you continue to wind up the engineers on this site any future problems you have may remain unanswered or may contain colourful language instead of text.
Best wishes
Bob
“Hello Bob”,Thanks for your message.
The last thing that I want to do is to have to write messages such as those I posted in the last 2 Days – BUT:
I have been Defending myself against Sarcastic Comments and from comments that have been made which totally ignore information that I have previously written in my replies to Members.
I really cannot believe that You are not seeing this in the messages – I have had Sarcastic remarks and have been Insulted on here.I am NOT the person who is `On a Wind Up` on here – I am the one being wound up.
I know that I will have to End this by not replying any further to the Sarcastic remarks – but I had to Defend myself in the messages that I posted up to now.
The comparison between the Worcester Greenstar High Efficiency Boiler Components and MY Bosch Fridge Freezer Components was prompted by Bryans comments.
And although I believe everything that You wrote in that SOME Fridge Freezers have a large amount of Components – I would bet that there are definitely more components in that Boiler [see Diagrams] than there are in MY Bosch Fridge Freezer.
I should have stated that I meant to compare the amount of Components in a High Efficiency Condensing Boiler to the amount of `Components in MY Bosch Fridge Freezer` in my message to Bryan – but I thought that it would be Obvious.
I have seen an `Exploded View` Diagram of a Bosch Fridge Freezer in the past and it did have a lot of `Parts` but obviously quite a lot of those were for the structure / the `Cabinet Parts` – I would not be able to remember how many `Working Parts` / Control Components there were – but I am fairly sure not any number approaching 30 – 40.
Thanks very much for your involvement and explanations Bob – I appreciate it.Regards,
Chris
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
“Hello All”,
I would like to close this thread now.
I was obviously being unrealistic when I thought that there was a possibility that whatever caused the `Strange Malfunctions` to my Fridge Freezer could be identified from my descriptions.
I now realise that a Remote Diagnosis is not possible.
Thanks very much to the Members who responded to Me.Regards,
Chris
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
“Hello All”,
I AM DESCRIBING WHAT HAS NOW HAPPENED TO MY FRIDGE FREEZER KNOWING THAT I WILL BE TOLD – `THE APPLIANCE IS TERMINAL / NEEDS TO BE INSPECTED BY A DOMESTIC APPLIANCE REFRIGERATION ENGINEER` – BUT I WOULD STILL LIKE SOME GUESSES AS TO WHAT HAS NOW HAPPENED PLEASE:
Although my Fridge Freezer has been working O.K. Temperature wise I have had the `Temperature Display Lights Flashing` problem a couple of times since my last message on here.
I have followed the advice that I received to carry out a `Full Defrost` – this seems to have resulted in whatever was occasionally malfunctioning now becoming `Faulty` / causing the Fridge Freezer to not work – in fact causing the FREEZER to HEAT UP !
Today / 4 Hours ago I turned the Fridge Freezer back On – once again I have the Temperature display lights going Off with a loud `Click` and immediately back on again – it has been happening for the last 4 HOURS.
This is still happening and I have left it because on the previous occasion this happened for HOURS before the Temperature display lights started Flashing and I accidentally found out that if I wedged the Freezer Door open about 50mm the Display lights stopped Flashing and after a couple of Hours I was able to close the Freezer door and the Appliance seemed to be working again – although obviously the `malfunctions` mean that something is Faulty.
TODAY – After about an Hour I opened the Freezer door to find Warm Air came out – I then put a Digital Thermometer into the Freezer and after about another 30 minutes this was showing 30.3C / 86.5F – after a further 30 minutes the Temperature had climbed to 34.2C / 93.5F !
The Fridge cabinet is not cooling at all the Temperature has remained at about what the Air Temperature was when the Door was Open – 24 degrees / 75F
Obviously there is something MAJOR at Fault now – The `Full Defrost` has meant that I previously had a Fridge Freezer that was working in terms of keeping the correct Temperatures in the Fridge and Freezer but had a `slight malfunction` which caused the Temperature Display Lights to Flash – BUT Now I do NOT have a working Fridge Freezer.
IN THIS CASE I WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF TO HAVE JUST WAITED UNTIL THE APPLIANCE STOPPED WORKING – BUT STILL HAVE USED THE MEAT ETC. IN THE FREEZER SO THAT I WOULD NOT HAVE THE PROBLEM OF FINDING SOMEWHERE TO PUT IT WHEN THE APPLIANCE MALFUNCTIONED `TERMINALLY`.
I know that leaving the Fridge Freezer turned On for much longer would NOT be appropriate – but as it took HOURS previously to `Stabilise` / Lights stop Flashing / Freezer Door Open 50mm / Close Freezer Door I am watching the Appliance very carefully for any sign of the Components Overheating – although obviously the Freezer is already Overheating !
At present the Temperature display lights are Flashing – but if I open the Freezer Door they stop Flashing – Close the Freezer door they Flash again – How is that happening ?
I `Fully Defrosted` my Fridge Freezer for 10 Days – I monitored the Water Container which did not receive more than about a Cup of water during the first 3 Days [all on Day 1].I emptied the Water [Siphoned / Toilet paper] and then I went on a Weeks Holiday feeling sure that there would not be a `Permafrost Thaw` which would flood out of the Water Container.
The above details are now the result of the `Full Defrost` – Obviously I realise that the Defrost did NOT CAUSE the `Terminal Malfunction` that I now have – it just accelerated it !
I would welcome any Guesses about what could have happened from my descriptions – I know that `Remote Diagnosis` is impossible – just a few Guesses Please.I am particularly interested in how the Freezer could HEAT UP to 93.5F / 34C – ?
Regards,Chris
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
CHRISX wrote:I am particularly interested in how the Freezer could HEAT UP to 93.5F / 34C – ?
Because it is stuck on defrost. Only explanation really.
K.
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
kwatt wrote:
CHRISX wrote:
I am particularly interested in how the Freezer could HEAT UP to 93.5F / 34C – ?Because it is stuck on defrost. Only explanation really.
K.
“Hello Kwatt”,
Thanks for your reply.
Is there any way that I could try to `Unstick` the Defrost ?
I have tried turning the Appliance Off and On a few times during the last few Hours – including leaving it Off for a few minutes and opening the Freezer door to let the Heat out.
I still have the situation where the Temperature display lights are going Off with a loud Click and immediately back On again – now about 6 Hours – UNLESS I leave the Freezer Door open slightly – then the Display lights stop going Off & On every 2 minutes [approx.].
The Fridge compartment seems to have started to Cool down when I leave the Freezer door open slightly – which is the situation at the moment.
I know that an Engineers visit is required and I have booked an Engineer – unfortunately for Me / Us the `earliest availability` is NEXT FRIDAY 22nd between 8am and 8pm ! !
Obviously the Engineer may not be able to Repair the Appliance on that Day and We will have to wait for Parts to be Ordered – for perhaps another Week – OR I may even be told that `The Fridge Freezer is beyond economical Repair` – ?
Regards,
Chris
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