electrical safety testing ?

[funkyboogy]

Re: electrical safety testing ?

just another area of the appliance industry that doesnt have a pigeon hole to fit in ..

very grey area .. i get the point ddrill is saying that we are only responsible up to the plug which is probably correct and should an appliance engineer be expected to test customers house electrics ??

morally responsible ? for testing an earth path and advising customer to potential riks , – as george says our test equipment can carry out tests that give accurate readings.

maybe something the wta to look at and give advice ?

ps george – you should have tested metal parts of appliance with a volt stick before putting your hands on it ..

ally

[DrDill]

Re: electrical safety testing ?

Every house you go in could be a death trap, appliance engineers cant be responsible for the systems in there, years ago i recall at least once a week getting a mild shock off the kitchen sink when resting my hand there whist pulling the Washer out, no earth bonding.
What next? Asking the customer for a safty certificate before entering?

Sent from my iPhone
http://www.kitchenkitsw.com

[lee8]

Re: electrical safety testing ?

spanner51 wrote:I have always beleived that unless you do something about the result of any test, then there is no point in doing it.

So if your test says a machine or installation is faulty, then doing nothing is worse than not doing the test.

Just my opinion.

I agree, especially when Mr Smith asks why its failed and what needs rectifying and your only reply is “I’m not qualified” as soon as the client gets a whiff of that, the whole point is wasted as most wont spent the call out charges/costs on the advice of an unqualified person. :rolls:

I only advocate its a waste for these reasons and I try to explain that further training (APPLIANCE QUALIFICATION) for our specific industry be implemented, as technically no engineer is qualified to work on appliance as there is no qualification. :rotfl:

The reason why we don’t have it, cost vs death/injury. Again the yrs i spent in EU no test every got done, no equipment was provided, and nobody ever got injured whilst I was there, even with Spain’s poor wiring methods and unskilled labour, nobody felt the need to implement H&S policys, no lifting training, high level limits etc etc etc, no injuries to anybody in the work place, no injury book, Nada. 😉

[lee8]

Re: electrical safety testing ?

Gas safe has the power.

Yet last week I find an unqualified plumber fitting pipework and a gas appliance. The pipework was leaking, I call to find he returned couldn’t find the leak, disconnected, no warning label issued. I found the leak on the first joint I tested.

He did the work allowed the clients to use them and in 4 days time, the Safe registered plumber was calling to inspect the work and sign it off.

That’s illegal and so where several other AR issues, but they still left the appliance working.

So rules even when in place get broken but at least I can act under RIDDOR.

[squadman]

Re: electrical safety testing ?

I agree, especially when Mr Smith asks why its failed and what needs rectifying and your only reply is “I’m not qualified

I only advocate its a waste for these reasons and I try to explain that further training (APPLIANCE QUALIFICATION) for our specific industry be implemented, as technically no engineer is qualified to work on appliance as there is no qualification. :rotfl:

The reason why we don’t have it, cost vs death/injury. Again the yrs i spent in EU no test every got done, no equipment was provided,

While I hear what your saying thats not really the case here is it, Manufactures Service Engineers are all trained in Electrical Safety and have been for many years and are supplied with the equipment to carry out those tests which although they are not statutory tests are mandatory by the employers and for good reason !

Just because no tests were carried out and no equipment was supplied to do so and no one got injured is at least here in the UK neither here or there, in todays litigious times it is unwise not to to perform these tests. Its funny how this subject crops up on a fairly regular basis and I have to admit it was one of the first subjects I can remember when I first joined this site. Dr Dill was of couse right as like he I can remember making calls where Customers were complaining of electrical shocks from sinks and pipework and also being out with engineers who had no test equipment at all and they were as mystified by the phenomenon of that type of fault.

Largely most engineers know that they should be carrying out these tests before and after every repair which make our life easier, safer along with safety for the clients and how one would operate any other way is a enigma to me.
Of course I agree that its time that qualifications were implemented for our trade but they would need to be developed with already recognised electrical codes to make them worthwhile and legal

[lee8]

Re: electrical safety testing ?

I was working for Brands present in both EU and UK, the only difference was EU reg’s where implemented in the UK, whilst the EU choose to ignore them.

Why a brand does this I have no idea as I’m not a legal expert but I guess its easier to sue in the UK.

People cut corners in the real world, not everybody is pedantic.

Now if the media was reporting on people being injured/killed etc etc.

Then start prosecuting people regularly, then that may just may improve the situation.

Safety testing is not compulsory for our industry and as far as I know, no appliance engineer has been prosecuted for not doing it. It may be good practice, but until a case happens as far as i’m aware if your not qualified and there is no requirement for the test you cannot be held responsible for anything beyond the appliance your working on.

Now instead of us all arguing, why don’t we start pushing for regulations to be brought in. :rotfl:

[Martin]

Re: electrical safety testing ?

lee8 wrote:there is no requirement for the test you cannot be held responsible for anything beyond the appliance your working on.

Just the appliance we are working on eh? Not the leccy that it’s plugged into then? So we’re not qualified to report reversed polarity or missing earth connection at all?……..oh dear oh dear……..are we allowed to tell the customer that the machine is perfectly OK provided they don’t plug it in and use it, will our ‘qualifications’ at least stretch that far?

On second thoughts lee8, don’t answer that, you’re not qualified.

[funkyboogy]

Re: electrical safety testing ?

one things for sure we do need to consult on a standard electrical safety test ..

[Martin]

Re: electrical safety testing ?

funkyboogy wrote:one things for sure we do need to consult on a standard electrical safety test ..

Have you just volunteered Ally? Let me second that motion…!! Take over from where I left off with THIS DOWNLOAD….. Nice one mate…! :tup:

[funkyboogy]

Re: electrical safety testing ?

eh im not even going to download mate, lol

but serioulsy it would be great to have a standard test cerifiacate etc …

i would think its something for the wta etc , i think dixons trainign doing eee safe ?? not sure

ally

[lee8]

Re: electrical safety testing ?

Martin wrote:Just the appliance we are working on eh? Not the leccy that it’s plugged into then? So we’re not qualified to report reversed polarity or missing earth connection at all?……..oh dear oh dear……..are we allowed to tell the customer that the machine is perfectly OK provided they don’t plug it in and use it, will our ‘qualifications’ at least stretch that far?

Your not responsible for the house beyond the plug, have you not been listening. :rotfl:

Which is why there is no regulation stating that you should by law carry out an Earth Loop, Continuity and Insulation test on a repair, its not required. :rolls:

Don’t take that as I believe you shouldn’t, I want it done, but lets put it into perspective and get some education, then change the rules. 😉

Do you present your driving license when you get your car serviced.

Not the garages responsibility what the user does to the product, hell nothing stopping you putting jet fuel in it, no more than Mrs Smith using nails into a socket instead of a plug.

You just need to make sure you didn’t put the jet fuel in or fit the nails.

Martin wrote:
On second thoughts lee8, don’t answer that, you’re not qualified.

Too late. :rotfl:

[Martin]

Re: electrical safety testing ?

lee8 wrote:Your not responsible for the house beyond the plug, have you not been listening. :rotfl:

I didn’t realise the need to listen as well as read your eloquent comments. Allow me a moment to find the headphones for this iPad whilst I ask you to please explain your point about “not beyond the plug”? The mere fact you proclaim we are “responsible” for the appliance yet not so the power outlet necessary to supply it seems to me a nonesense!

We don’t need qualifications in order to fix the appliance nor to diagnose a dangerously unsafe supply outlet. So why should our “responsibility” so definitively end at the plugtop in your opinion?

[twicknix]

Re: electrical safety testing ?

I think at Dixon’s training, there was a subject that you can actually issue a notice advising the client to consult an electrician as if the electrics not up to scratch then you cannot possibly expect the repaired machine to work as you can’t test it due to the reason on the conditions of the electrics.

You simply issue a guidance and say that you will return to finish the job off after the electrics been rectified. In my opinion you can argue all you like but the customer will simply fetch an extension lead plugged in from another room and throw at you saying “will this do?”. Tough choice eh?

[funkyboogy]

Re: electrical safety testing ?

i know this test is standard with brit gas .. but they also have electricians they need to keep busy , not sure how they see this within their organisation ? .

i would see it as good practice if i found an issue with earth loop .. i would rather a customer get an electrician to check over system most of the time its council and wont cost them

ally

[lee8]

Re: electrical safety testing ?

I’d like some regulation brought in, then people hopefully will understand what there responsibility is, improve their training and knowledge and actually all domestic appliance people can then call themselves Qualified, until then, its really all a joke.

[Author]

Posts