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Re: electrical safety testing ?
Specialist01269 wrote:
Martin wrote:
From 0800’s web site…..Sort of say’s it all really does’nt it ? 👿 A simple Earth continuity test could have saved this young guy’s life.
Depends on what the plumber was doing
I wonder what the guy was doing to have received the shock, surprised the safety devices didn’t trip out, that .
Just read the article, HSE ruled on it 7 days ago, the socket was incorrectly wired, the installation had been tested by Electricians and deemed safe. :rolls: the plumber was installing the appliance and touched a cooper pipe whilst holding the back of the appliance.
I guess regulation may have helped in this case, if the appliance was installed by a Qualified Appliance person, who was regulated, monitored and well aware of the need to test, nobody would have died.
Although it also shows that a qualified Electrician could not wire a simple socket and passed a dangerous installation as safe and caused a death.
Maybe too many d888heads with below average intel are creeping through, on a recent City & Guilds PAT course 7 of the 10 sparks who just done there Part P course failed the PAT exam. :rotfl:
Maybe I should call for both Electricians and Appliance engineers be better qualified.
Re: electrical safety testing ?
How many of you guys who do test keep a record of the results on the machine or in a book because if you don’t you may as well not test at all, remember YOUR public liability insurance will not pay out if they think you to have worked in an unsafe manner should something happen.
Its no difference to any insurance, they assume you take all necessary precautions to prevent accidents or injury and that you work in a safe manner, tests may not be law but it is reasonable to assume that you would perform them before you leave the machine, as it done by every manufactures own service force as well as BG they will see this as an industry standard practice.
The simple answer is you test and record the results either your self in a book or on a sticker/job sheet, it may no be law but cover your ass as its a “where there is blame there is a claim” world out there
Re: electrical safety testing ?
lee8 wrote:Maybe I should call for both Electricians and Appliance engineers be better qualified.
Good plan, you make the call then let us know how you got on?
Re: electrical safety testing ?
lee8 wrote:
Maybe too many d888heads with below average intel are creeping through, on a recent City & Guilds PAT course 7 of the 10 sparks who just done there Part P course failed the PAT exam. :rotfl:Maybe I should call for both Electricians and Appliance engineers be better qualified.
When I did the Pat test management and operative courses there were three 16th edition (it was a few years ago) electricians that failed.
Beggars belief tbh.Re: electrical safety testing ?
I wonder if it is possible to become PartP qualified or indeed pass a PAT course if you are colourblind? Would the examiners at any stage notice this potentially dangerous deficiency? That could explain how someone could possibly wire a socket, or any electrical circuit for that matter, without realising they had done anything wrong. The most common error for anyone colour blind is not being able to distinguish blue from brown!
Re: electrical safety testing ?
madangler1 wrote:How many of you guys who do test keep a record of the results on the machine or in a book because if you don’t you may as well not test at all, remember YOUR public liability insurance will not pay out if they think you to have worked in an unsafe manner should something happen.
Its no difference to any insurance, they assume you take all necessary precautions to prevent accidents or injury and that you work in a safe manner, tests may not be law but it is reasonable to assume that you would perform them before you leave the machine, as it done by every manufactures own service force as well as BG they will see this as an industry standard practice.
The simple answer is you test and record the results either your self in a book or on a sticker/job sheet, it may no be law but cover your ass as its a “where there is blame there is a claim” world out there
I Log all safety test readings on the jobsheet, that way both you and the customer have a copy. Also put a pass / fail sticker on the appliance, if it’s a fail I get the customer to sign the sheet to say that i’ve informed them that the appliance is unsafe.Re: electrical safety testing ?
it is heartbreaking to here of how that young fellow lost his life. and bring it home how important it is to do a check on the socket with a basic plug in tester.
and to check the plug top to make sure it is wired up properly. and has the right fuse before you even start work on the appliance. 😥 fasetester 🙁
Re: electrical safety testing ?
Martin wrote:
lee8 wrote:
Maybe I should call for both Electricians and Appliance engineers be better qualified.Good plan, you make the call then let us know how you got on?
Good response from someone posting teaching material on here. :rotfl:
Recording results is a waste of time unless your qualified and regulated. It may help, who no’s, each case is different in court, but you’d have to have given copies to a client and hope they kept them, as a hand written record in a book/call sheet is not, in my opinion, sufficient proof you actually did the tests.
I consistently follow engineers work and find abnormalities in there paperwork and in the field. You cant always prove that the insulation results on a hard wired appliance were not done by a tech who had removed the cables from the supply and tested. The only way is to catch out a tech by removing cables and send them in afterwards.
Its all well and good a driver operating a car to the legal requirements, but if you run someone over and they die and you have never had a lesson and been passed as competent and hold a current license your still in the 888t.
Same situation.
Re: electrical safety testing ?
i think this post has highlited the need for safety ..
the 1st thing i would take out tool box before i touch any metal or pipes around work area
VOLT STICK
this £10 tool will save a life..
take what you want from all the posts on this tread but please use a VOLT STICK
Re: electrical safety testing ?
lee8 wrote:
Martin wrote:
Maybe I should call for both Electricians and Appliance engineers be better qualified.Good plan, you make the call then let us know how you got on?
Recording results is a waste of time unless your qualified and regulated. It may help, who no’s, each case is different in court, but you’d have to have given copies to a client and hope they kept them, as a hand written record in a book/call sheet is not, in my opinion, sufficient proof you actually did the tests.
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Sorry I don’t agree with this, even if your qualified and regulated there is no proof you did the test either, all testing is done assuming that the truth is being told, regardless of regulation performing tests is absolutely required.If you did work on and machine and then a week later the customer gets a shock due to the earth not being connected in the plug that they fitted 6 months earlier you are open to getting sued or trading standards and law on your back even though you did not touch the plug, you must take every reasonable opportunity to ensure the machine you have repaired is safe regardless of what you have fixed, your walking out the door telling them it now working therefor your telling them its safe to use.
By doing tests and keeping records your proving you have worked in a safe manner, leaving the customer the results does not matter, if you have a book with all job details, date, time and results you are just as covered as leaving a job sheet.
Re: electrical safety testing ?
I sort of agree with lee8, its the Car MOT test scenario, your car passes test tomorrow and next week its wheel falls off and kills someone, whos to blame? If any one? Untill there is a precedent and regulation who can say what the outcome is?
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http://www.kitchenkitsw.comRe: electrical safety testing ?
funkyboogy wrote:i think this post has highlited the need for safety ..
Yeah look what you’ve started Ally, it’s all your fault mate. Just from a seemily harmless request to learn more about Loop testing it’s now gone off in all directions and with few conclusions.
But one things for sure it has indeed concluded a need for safety but those that should know better are quick to point out that the majority of us aren’t qualified in using test equipment anyway!
A field service ‘engineer’ has a huge capacity to learn and most learn something new each day. Often by their own mistakes for the most part due to the lack of information as to how to do what, where and why? It is so much easier these days to grab a handful of tools and head off fixing a few machines. After all the technology is put in place to such an extent that those faulty machines even tell you what is wrong by flashing up error codes. Out goes the need to have a wiring diagram and sequence chart in order to figure out at what point the appliance failed. Just a copy of the ‘Fault Code app’ on your smartphone and you’re away!
Judging by the many posts on here many of the ‘toolbox and smartphone’ guys are suddenly realising that a Megger should also be added to the toolkit. That brilliant piece of kit tells you a whole lot more about the appliance you’re trying to fix and, with a little extra application, will lead you straight to the problem.
The Martindale socket tester is a lifesaver as is the volt stick, both so quick and easy to use. I’ve long since lost count of the times I’ve found a dodgy wall socket and many instances where there’s no earth connection all around the customers ring main. I refer all my customers to my long standing friend who is a Part P electrician. And by the same token he refers his customers to me when their appliances are causing his customers electrics to trip. It’s THE way any responsible engineer goes about his everyday lot. This job doesn’t require regulation nor qualification, just common sense based of the correct application. Knowing what’s wrong and how to fix it and, if that is not possible, knowing what course of action is required toward a safe and satisfactory conclusion.
Re: electrical safety testing ?
lee8 wrote:
Martin wrote:
Maybe I should call for both Electricians and Appliance engineers be better qualified.Good plan, you make the call then let us know how you got on?
Good response from someone posting teaching material on here. :rotfl:
Recording results is a waste of time unless your qualified and regulated. It may help, who no’s, each case is different in court, but you’d have to have given copies to a client and hope they kept them, as a hand written record in a book/call sheet is not, in my opinion, sufficient proof you actually did the tests.
Same situation.So what in your “Esteemed opinion” is sufficient proof that the tests have been done ?. As for recording results being useless unless your qualified & regulated, where does being qualified / regulated stop you being a pratt & doing bad work or ensure you carry out correct testing ?. It does’nt I spent an awful lot of my working life going around after some highly qualified Electricians / Engineers & clearing up the mess they left behind & they’re shoddy work.
Re: electrical safety testing ?
this is another tough one guys and until its regulated im afraid its all up to the individual to decide how he tackles electrical safety .
i think we all need to take a step back from all the arguing and push forward the safety side of this post ..
were all under pressure to get appliances working and get to the next job – and quite often steam right into the repair without a thought of electrical safety ….
i for one now go straight for volt stick – earth loop before i touch the appliance …
and would recommend anyone to do the same
ally ..
Re: electrical safety testing ?
You got my vote on the Voltstick & Loop test mate, would’nt be without either tester. About the only thing regulating the appliance trade is going to do is take more of our money & put it into the governments pockets it’s not going to put the cowboys off, 1 thing this trade seriously needs though is some form of recognised training.
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