W3922 vs ISE10

[iadom]

Re: W3922 vs ISE10

dan0k5 wrote:Oh yes, I have seen the old Hotpoint 1600 machine in old magazines and on the net. Looks like a very solid machine.
Jeez the designer of that would be absolutley mortified to see the current hotpoint offerings!

Sadly even in the very early 70’s the bean counters got at that machine, they specified inferior electronics and controls.

The motor was a very reliable AC Delco but the timer, PCB and the PMC ( Power Micro Switch) failed for fun. It took several years of modifications to get them anything like, that said they were head and shoulders above anything with a Hotpoint name on it today. 😥 👿

Jim.

[adamhornsby]

Re: W3922 vs ISE10

Penguin45 wrote:

And Adam did get the Spin protection bit right – it was initially marketed as a safety feature (1980’s Hotpoint Microtronics?) due to the lack of sophistication available with electronic motor control at that time. They were originally a weighted mechanical knock-off device. Now they are a machine self-defence device to prevent some flimsy, under-engineered bit of plastic carp battering itself to bits on it’s cheap ineffective dampers and Bacofoil strength cabinet.

Penguin45.

Thanks Penguin, i thought it was a safety feature, after all in a logical sort of way, an out of balance machine wouldnt be safe for young children around it.

[helo_75]

read it properly adam

[candyking]

Re: W3922 vs ISE10

Hi , just back from holiday , i’ve spent the last hour tee heeing , lot of laughs in this thread . On topic i’ve sold and installed more than 10 ISE10 autos , feedback has been nothing short of amazing , oldest one now 8 months old , none had faults . I have contacted around half of the customers in the last few months , all love the machines , what came in for special praise was . ease of use , speed of wash , how quiet and how dry the clothes felt .

The end of the thread nostalga was very apt too , first call after holiday was to an AEG 802T , 26 Years old and in imaculate condition . It is so sad to see what AEG (electrolux) are peddling now , the design and construction of the 802T are just breathtaking , the quality of materials used show that cost was never allowed to compromise the designers vision . A pump replacement and the old girl was as good as new , the huge induction motor still purred the way it did when it was new , the whole machine was almost silent on full spin with a load .

There is a but , though , the above 802T cost around £450 when it was new, probably twice the price of its hoover hotpoint competitors, but it’s proved more than a .
bargain buy , the current crop of tat struggles to get to 26 months lifespan .

The above is not a lot different from the current argument for buying an ISE10 .

[dan0k5]

Re: W3922 vs ISE10

When all comes to all, the older the better in most cases.

I personally would rather go and buy a 2nd hand machine which I know is well built rather than putting my faith in some modern tat. Of course you can get quality nowadays but you MUST pay for it. It’s been said many a time before. You must pay for a quality machine that will last. Years ago the equivalent reliable hotpoint or indesit would have been around £250 – £300. However in today’s prices thats probably around the £500 isnt it?

I do prefer the older machines with their lower pitched motors, not like modern day zanussi’s which can be compared with the likes of scratching nails on a blackboard!

Must say im rather taken with the ISE 10 machine. However funds simply do not permit at the moment! And the Hotpoint is chugging along rather pleasantly. Lets hope it doesnt have to be replaced or repaired within the next few years. HAHA! 😆

Dan

[IncredibleMrT]

Re: W3922 vs ISE10

Hi all,
Had the Miele for a good month and a half now. All seems well. It wahes well, it doesn’t take any longer than my old machine. It’s bigger. It has a little light in the drum (little things eh) and overall i’m happy with it. Only one niggle which i’ll have them out for : when it spins at 1600rpm it seems to rattle the door which doesn’t seem as snug as i’d like. I’ve checked the shopfloor of the company I work for and all the Mieles i’ve checked seem to have a loose door.
It isn’t a massive problem and one I could quite easily live with but as i’ve a 10year warranty I figured i’d better make the most of it 😉

Thanks
Matt.

[cockney steve]

Rattle = things fretting against each other = wear!

whether the catch concerned (or the hinges,doorseal, etc) have a margin of tolerance for this, is debatable.

It’s not what I’d expect in a machine at this price-point!!!

If it’s designed to “float” IMO, it should do -so silently.

[jottie]

I’ve just read this entire thread with much interest. It’s a shame things got so heated during the middle section.

We need a new machine & are researching the ISE10. Our previous machine a Zanussi FJ1033 was bought new in July 1990. The only repair was a replacement control unit after about 2 or 3 years. Nothing since until 2008!!

In the last 6 months I’ve had to reseat the door lock myself to overcome a non-starting problem. And in the last couple of months it was becoming a bit erratic and occasionally stuck on a progamme. Yesterday was the death knell – drum not turning – upon inspection I found that although the drive belt was still intact there seemed to be a small fireworks display on the printed circuit board. So sad farewell!
🙁

Over 18 years faithful service … and did I mention that the kids are now strapping teenagers? And also that I am an avid mountain biker & the machine has had to put up with much abuse from muddy clothes? Then there’s the wetsuits from kayaking …

Reading this thread makes me realise what a hassle free 18 years we’ve had compared to most people.

So for a replacement machine …

… the conclusion to me is simple: If I want a hassle free future without having to take time off work to be at home for an engineer or waiting for the delivery of several new machines in quick succession …

… then I need to spend a bit of money now.

Also the annual cost over the life of the machine will be much lower if I buy good quality with easy/cheap repair options.

Not knowing what the future holds for any company but looking at the design and maintenance philosophy of ISE, together with the underwritten insurance from AXA, then the ISE10 is at the top of the list.

Yesterday I was considering a BOSCH WAE24363GB (I’d found it at £300 delivered) … but it now seems a better option to invest more now & save in the future.

From research in the last 36 hours, Zanussi seem to have declied quite a bit, even AEG & Bosch seem not what they once were. Miele still seem exceptional on quality (as they were 20 years ago) but I am put off by the monopolistic approach to servicing … and that’s after paying a premium price for the initial purchase.

So its time for serious research on the ISE10 … and I’ve found a sales/service place only 1 mile from home.
🙂

Also the ISE10 has fantastically quick wash times for a triple AAA rated machine … and our machine goes non-stop every Saturday – starting with that muddy MTB gear …

Thanks for all the various contributions on the thread. The reading was amusing, although at some times painful … but the truth did seem to “come out in the wash”, so to speak.

[kwatt]

Re: W3922 vs ISE10

You know jottie, you’re right and I can but thank you for the comments.

This thread has been drawn out and, yes, it’s a true “warts and all” type thing that’s gone on, sometimes good, sometimes bad for both protagonists being ISE and Miele but at least people that take the time to read it get the truth of it.

The over-riding principle being, that which you’ve totally got from what I can see, is that if you are prepared to spend that little bit more and, have that little bit of faith, then you’ll get something better. Perhaps even a bit special that will last and return results as well as true value for money over time.

IMO the ISE10 represents phenomenal value for money, it might seem a lot but really on the face of it but, it’s not really. It’s just a brilliant bit of kit that does the job you bought it to do and keeps on doing it day, after day, after day. Doing it simply, with no fuss, no drama and at minimum cost.

For most people, that’s all they expect of a washing machine and that is exactly what we set out to provide.

K.

[andy_art_trigg]

Re: W3922 vs ISE10

Only just found this thread. I’d like to add my comments. As an independent reviewer I’ve reviewed a few Miele washing machines and also the first and second ISE washing machines although they were in a totally different price and quality bracket to the ISE10.

I’ve long recommend Miele washing machines on my site. In fact I praise them very highly indeed. However, on my reviews I always mention the caveat that the fly in the ointment is the Miele spares costs, and the fact that they give little technical support to independent dealers.

Before the ISE10 came along Miele was the only option for anyone in the UK wanting the best made machines. The nearest rival was quite a distance back along the quality scale. There were AEG-Electrolux, Siemens etc. which are mid range quality, but then a great big leap up to Miele.

Now the ISE 10 is here I reckon they are a very viable alternative to Miele. I hope to be reviewing one properly soon although I have examined one at a trade meeting.

My honest opinion is that the ISE 10 is quite close to the build quality of a Miele and better build quality than anything else available other than Miele. On a strict direct build quality comparison the Miele would win because it has a few bits that are clearly higher quality – but are they unnecessarily better quality?

For example, as pointed out earlier in this thread the ISE10 has plastic drum paddles whereas the Miele has stainless steel ones. The point is fair that stainless steel paddles are better quality than plastic, but as Ken pointed out, the advantage of plastic is that they are removable to reach bra wires and other obstructions that could get caught between the outer tub and in the drum. As long as the plastic is of sufficient high-quality (and they are fixed in place so they don’t easily come out) then on balance I think I would agree with Ken that the advantages of a removable drum paddle are a plus point. As far as I know all other manufacturers use plastic drum paddles – although the cheap ones do have problem with them coming out.

At the end of the day I feel the ISE10 is serious competition for Miele and wins hands down on servicing and repair costs. Although I have great respect for Miele washing machines and they do win lots of awards the awards are for design and quality – not how reasonably priced repair costs and spares are. My biggest worry when recommending Miele is that someone struggles to find the money for one but later couldn’t afford to have it repaired because of the premium repair costs. I have started to realise that Miele washing machines can become uneconomical to repair simply because of the price of spares and the fact independent (cheaper) engineers can’t fix them. I now tend agree with Ken that this is almost a bit of a con. What’s the point of having a washer designed to last 20 years if once out of guarantee it can cost £400 – £500 to replace a motor or PCB? Many people would still scrap it if a new one is just a few hundred pounds more (even though I would argue it IS worth investing in the repair because of the sheer quality of the product)

To be fair to Miele the quality is such that most people may not have a problem and they could run for 10 years or more without failing. It’s a close call but Miele spoil themselves with their isolationist and monopoly practices. ISE are the best thing to happen for consumers and repairers in the white goods industry in decades, it’s just most don’t realise it yet.

[dantista]

Re: W3922 vs ISE10

I’m really glad I’ve found this thread as I’ve been seriously looking at buying an ISE10. I too was very fed up with the built-in relatively short life-spans of the ‘lower-budget’ machines. Although I would say that there shouldn’t be such a sniffing at £300 or so as if such an amount was peanuts. One of the reasons we’re going through a credit-crunch is precisely because too many people have such a disregard for money. After all it’s nothing to spend that amount on a small child for a games console! I digress …

The thread has been both instructive and entertaining. I believe that it has brought me considerably closer to reaching a decision to opt for the ISE10. £800 is a huge amount of money, for me at least, but when weighed against the longer term investment and the frustration of having to go through the same process every three or four years, with repair costs in the meantime, then such a decision becomes more clearly justified.

Of course there is always the danger of bias from the seller and the engineer, but throughout this thread, obvious pros and cons and the occasional consumer voice stood out.

Miele may well still lead the field for build and quality but the monopolistic spares and repairs philosophies are more than just a little off-putting. ISE on the other hand are not able to be fairly compared because the company has not been established sufficiently long to allow this or end-of-warranty-reports for even the ISE5!

Another aspect of ISE which attracts me, and I do hope that this isn’t just a sales pitch, is that it promotes ecological values (no throw away philosophies in particular) and it encourages the independent retailer/engineer.

I have posted a query to Which? asking why it has not yet tested ISE washing machines and am awaiting a reply. However I do see that Which? tends to test the more easily available products and household names. I have, though, desperately searched for independent consumer reviews and just a very few did appear in this thread.

What intrigues me most of all, though, is that this mainly serious discussion was conducted by some very testy men who, I’m sure, would have descended into fisticuffs had the thread been face-to-face! Where on earth are the women though?! In GENERAL (not exclusively) it is women who use domestic appliances and their voices were notable by their general absence – ‘though one or two did provide some very welcome experiences – which is all important in decision making.

All in all – thank you for providing this thread and once I have bought my machine I shall provide some future comments on its performance and general demeanour – and hopefully not misdemeanour! Appearance is less important than the above attributes because I just want something that will wash, spin and last! Not much to ask for is it – and for £800 not much to get!

Incidentally, I’m a woman. But I’m sure that was apparent.

[Penguin45]

Re: W3922 vs ISE10

Thanks for your comments. The nub of the thing was basically dealt with in the first reply, but it sort of spiralled away after that…… This is a Public Forum, so anyone is free to express an opinion and thankfully, they do. Very little is ever deleted, so it can be a bit “warts and all”. The contribution of Adam Hornsby to the thread was totally expected, of little value and amounted (as usual) to nothing more than quotations from Miele propoganda. Perhaps we should apologise for him as, regrettably, he makes himself and Miele look like prats. His inability to rationally discuss or argue a point is his downfall.

Anyway, I’ll admit now that I’m an ISE agent, I have sold a good number of the 10 machines and to date I have had no issues whatsoever. The review business is a headache – so many people have too much on their minds with current conditions, so after a week the machine becomes part of the furniture and will hopefully do so for the next 20 years.

WHICH? usually review machines based on an anonymous purchase. As ISE products are not available from the sheds, this is very difficult as each sale is a personal one. We know exactly and precisely where each machine has gone, so they may consider this a problem. That said, we still haven’t figured out where they got the 5 machine they reviewed from. 😆

You commented that ISE is a new business. The machines have been available from the launch of the “original” 5 machine for 2 1/2 years now. It grows on an exponential basis which, given that there is no high line advertising, is remarkable. I now have in excess of 220 machines in the field, which, given that I sold 2 in the first 2 months, is also remarkable. It’s also worth considering that the 10 machine will be out of stock for a few more days as ISE managed to do 4 months business on the machine in 6 weeks. Unexpected? Yes. Slightly problematical? Yes. Indication of the way things are going? Excellent.

If you’re in Leeds, you will be able to purchase a machine through my business and I will personally offer support and service if required. No faceless monoliths with ISE.

HTH, come and join a rather exclusive band who have seen the light.

Regards,
Penguin45.

[half-full]

Re: W3922 vs ISE10

First off, thank you for a first-class forum.

I have ordered an ISE10 through my local agent, hopefully it is being delivered next week. After spending £700 on two machines in six years the cost seems fine to me, particularly with the ten year warranty. We have a 9month-old baby, are moving house to a newbuild and have to leave our built-in machine here. We are taking the opportunity to buy something that does everything we need, should last long enough to still be doing our daugher’s laundry when she brings it home from college, and has a strong “green” ethic so that we won’t be binning a machine every few years. I really admire the thought that has gone into the whole life-cycle of ISE machines and am more than happy to make this purchase.

Just to add to a couple of Dantina’s points. I think we have been spoiled with the withspread availability of online reviews for pretty much anything. When a product comes along that isn’t a big player, and isn’t sold by mainstream distribution channels, it will take a while for reviews to build up. I figured I just had to use my own judgement and take whatever risk there is buying a product with a ten year warranty, but I suppose it depends on how much data you feel comfortable with before committing what is quite a significant amount of money. I came across ISE on a womens’ forum, it was just mentionned as a brand that someone would buy if they were getting a new machine, and I looked it up from there.

Secondly, I think this forum is set up for and by white-goods experts, and that doesn’t seem to be a sector that has many women working in it. Perhaps that will change in the future, who knows.

[cockney steve]

Re: W3922 vs ISE10

Hi, Half-, full,
I’m not a white-goods expert, but a semi-retired car-mechanic / engineer / fish-fryer /jack of all trades.

When I was young,with a baby (nappies!!! ) my “ex” came with an almost new Bendix Washer -dryer……I watched their engineer do simple jobs and charge a fortune.

Eventually, after venturing into DIY repairs (sucessfully 🙂 ) we scrapped the machine, as I’d met an independent engineer who flogged me a top-loader,which did 2 more sprogs’ nappies and a greasy mechanic’s washing.

My tame engineer retired,I was given a “scrap” machine which I repaired and used for some years.

Fast forward, we now have computers and the internet thingy….I now have considerable experience “tinkering” with all sorts of appliances, Hell, if I could repair a premature-baby incubator, I’m sure a demic toaster will be easy! 😆 ….I arrive at the situation where my machine has collapsed drum-bearings

I work out how it’s accessed (take the front off)…..but damned if I can see the screws……browse the internet……

UK WHITEGOODS!!!!!! 😀

Posted my query,someone told me waht I needed to know……and I’ve sort of hung around since.

I M O the site was set up by engineers ,especially to save the poor customers who were being hit with huge bills just to do a” simple ” repair.
No honest person(engineer) likes to spend a half-hour drive just to change a fuse and have to charge £45 (some charge over £90 callout, irrespective of what’s wrong

If you have a browse around the various sections, you’ll see everything from “how do I repair the faulty circuit-board on this American-style fridge-freezer” to “Haier washers/fridges are dirt-cheap, are they any good? “….no, they’re dirt 👿 So, this site was set up for people like you, who are fed-up with buying unreliable rubbish from commission-driven sharks.

Yes, they have a “find an engineer facility” and a (super fast) spares outlet

but I bet the revenue from those, doesn’t pay the site’s running-costs.

However,hopefuly, we use them and they get extra business and give a poke in the eye to the fast-buck merchants .

I’m sure you’ll look back in 20 years and say, “that ISE was the best investment I ever made in the house. 🙂

Sorry, Mod’s was only meant to be a quick post……but I got carried away, (again)

[richardc1983]

Re: W3922 vs ISE10

Penguin45 wrote:

If you’re in Leeds, you will be able to purchase a machine through my business and I will personally offer support and service if required. No faceless monoliths with ISE.

Regards,
Penguin45.

Hi Penguin

I am in Crossgates, Leeds.

Which is the best machine the ISE5 or the ISE10?

They both seem to have the same features but the ISE5 has a water plus option to increase water in each wash. Whereas the ISE10 only has an extra rinse option.

How much for each machine and delivery.

Kind regards
Richard.

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