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Hi,
I had almost bought a Miele W3922 washing machine when I found posts mentioning the ISE10. I have taken a look at it and it does look a good machine.
Now, the question. Which is the better?
ThanksRe: W3922 vs ISE10
There are only two absolutely top quality manufacturers left supplying the European market – Miele and Asko in Sweden. The ISE10 is a bespoke manufactured machine from Asko, for ISE.
Both machines are superbly built and will last for many years. As an independent repairer, Miele does present some problems. We have zero technical support. The price of components can most kindly be described as larcenous. The real kicker, which as independents, we can do nothing about, is that current production Mieles are fully digital and, if they bring up an error code, this can only be cleared by a Miele Company engineer plugging in his laptop and talking to the computer. You will pay for this priviledge…… Basically, you are tied to company service, for the life of the appliance.
The ISE10 has none of these restrictions. We chose at the outset not to use spares as a profit centre, so in years to come, they will be affordable. If service is required, you call your local engineer directly and receive personal service – it’s a whole life package at a personal level.
Oh, it does a damn fine job of cleaning your clothes as well…….. Most people consider this to be important 😀 . The ones I have sold to date seem to be adored by their owners……
I don’t know about better, they’re both fine appliances. ISE is just coming at it from a rather different angle.
Penguin45.
Re: W3922 vs ISE10
Wow, a pretty comprehensive reply. Where was you when I was choosing a girlfriend! Could have saved me some bad choices 😉
I’ve ordered the Miele – got it from Dixons for £848 with delivery and installation included. I work in IT for an electrical retailer and our staff price never even came close!
Have I made the right choice?? This is gonna trouble me for a while 😕 That said, it has a 10year warranty so i’ll try and forget about it until that has expired.
Thanks
Matt.Re: W3922 vs ISE10
IncredibleMrT wrote:Wow, a pretty comprehensive reply. Where was you when I was choosing a girlfriend! Could have saved me some bad choices 😉
I’ve ordered the Miele – got it from Dixons for £848 with delivery and installation included. I work in IT for an electrical retailer and our staff price never even came close!
Have I made the right choice?? This is gonna trouble me for a while 😕 That said, it has a 10year warranty so i’ll try and forget about it until that has expired.
Thanks
Matt.Indeed, you certainly wont regret the choice. I remember, reading that Miele invented the first fully automatic back in 1956, so you’re definitely in safe hands. Miele are also twice award winners for best domestic appliance brand and since they aren’t designed to break down in the first place, it will serve you very well. 😉
The Miele Troll.
Re: W3922 vs ISE10
As usual Adam, you’re wrong and do nothing but quote the Miele propaganda. Sure, they’d like to have you and everyone else believe that but I’m afraid it simply isn’t true.
Th first automatic washer is accredited to Seeburg, an American company long since gone. And the Thor was the first electric washing machine circa 1908, just bit ahead of your precious Miele. Maytag came up with the wooden tub washer in 1907, again a bit in front of Miele. Whirlpool started in 1911 making electric wringers, again in front of Miele. Card operated autos started production in 1947, again in front of Miele. And the first auto produced in Europe rolled out in 1951, not Miele but I can’t remember who’s it was but, yet again, ahead of Miele.
The actual process dates back long, long before that to the days of sailing ships and long before Miele even came into being.
So, do you still think Miele somehow came up with the idea?
Miele like to have people believe they invented every appliance under the sun but it just simply is not in the least bit true. They have developed many ideas, I’ll give them that and they make some decent kit but please get your facts right before you try to become authoritative on any given subject.
K.
Re: W3922 vs ISE10
When people ask me why the Asko/ISE 10 is better than the Miele I always ask them to look within the folds of the door seal of their exisiting washing machine….. grunge, mould, grease…..then take a look at the Asko….
Re: W3922 vs ISE10
Yeah, I know Mark. I just point out that a Miele pump costs over £100 for the part alone and another £100 or so to have it fitted as you are held to ransom by Miele’s extortionate prices. Then that a Miele will take over two hours to do a cotton 40 wash whereas the ISE will do it just as well (if not better) in a shade over half that time.
Horses for courses though, people have a choice of what to buy and quite rightly so, I just wish that the facts were presented and not just a load of bull you would read in a corporate brochure.
K.
Re: W3922 vs ISE10
I bought the Miele based on reviews and recommendations from my colleagues who in some cases have had Miele for over 30 years with little or no problems.
However, I am wondering if I have made the right decision.
Is there anyway to actually get to look at one of these machines before buying? Apparently they aren’t available in shops only via this site and service engineers. I also haven’t been able to find many pictures of the unit so far other than pictures taken from their site – nor many totally impartial end-user reviews.Also, when it comes to spares being far cheaper than Miele – is there anywhere online that I can see a list of spares and their prices for the ISE10?
Sorry to seem like I don’t know whether i’m coming or going – it’s just a lot of money for me to be spending on a washing machine. I just want to sure i’m doing the right thing for when the warranty has expired. Miele (from what i’ve heard and read) usually do last well beyond the 10year warranty i’ve got, but as ISE are relatively new then how do we know that they will last? I’m not trying to provoke extreme ISE or Miele supporters, just trying to establish the facts.
Thanks again for your help.Re: W3922 vs ISE10
Hiya,
I’ll try to be as impartial as possible.
The Miele is a good machine, it’s well built and robust. As Chris pointed out there’s really only the two shows in town when it comes to a good solid washing machine these days and perhaps we could include some of the top end Siemens (Bosch) machines, a few of which are still German made. Beyond that you’re into the realms of a compromise on price/quality/features as you don’t get a Rolls Royce for Mini money, it really is that simple.
That said many in the trade are telling me that, in their opinion, many of the lower range Miele machines are and, I quote, “not what they were”. Whether this is due cost cutting or whatever I’ve no idea as I’m not familiar enough with the current range to comment with any certainty. That said, they’re likely still ahead of most in terms of build quality in fact, a lot of what’s out there now, especially at the lower end of the market, is just absolute rubbish.
What you hear from some retailers especially is that Miele never break, well I can assure you that they do, just like every single machine will break at some point, it is an absolute certainty as things wear out etc. And, as I have said many, many times, the fact that they will break is not in question, the only two questions that need asking about aftersales service on ISE or Miele are, how much will it cost to put right and can I have it done easily?
With Miele you have no option in most cases with their current crop of machines. The machine must be reset by a Miele technician using a laptop and so, they can charge you what they like as you either do that or chuck it out and buy another. As Miele refuse point blank to let anyone outside of Miele have this information and software etc. it means that in effect, you are held to ransom. You have to pay what Miele want to charge you and, that starts with about £100 to walk through your door. To put that into perspective, most of the independents are half that, to do the job, not just to turn up!
Conversely with ISE there is an open system for service which means that we can supply any repairer with detailed technical information as well as providing a lot of support directly to owners (with the confines of the law, we don’t agree but have to adhere) and that you will not get from Miele, ever.
If you are asking my opinion on the actual performance of the machine, I’d have to say that the ISE10 is faster than a Miele, more stable, performs just as well or better and is a lot, lot easier to use.
In terms of how long each one would last, well, there’s no way to be absolutely sure but I’d expect that, in normal domestic use, each one would easily last 15 years and most probably over 20 years or more, a lot of that depends on the use they are given. History shows that most of the Asko built washers will easily go on for over 20 years and we regularly supply parts for machines well beyond two decades old.
Speaking to the people that own them, they wouldn’t part with them and as soon as they find out that the ISE10 comes out the same factory, with the same environmental ethics, ease of use and performance then almost without exception everyone says that they will buy an ISE when theirs finally gives up.
But I think more telling is the fact that a lot of engineers out there either own an old Asko machine or have bought one from ISE. That says a lot. 😉
Spares prices have not been published as yet since there won’t be a single machine out of warranty until late 2010.
I hear the question you ask on ISE lasting a fair bit but, when companies like Hotpoint can be bought on a whim by Indesit and wrecked, how do we know Miele won’t be bought by Whirlpool in a year and wrecked? The answer is that nobody really knows what the future holds but ISE does a lot of commercial contract work that ensures stability. Plus, all the warranties are underwritten by AXA, if they go bust we’ve got bigger problems than a duff washer I should think. The Miele warranty is self funded, if they are taken over then it may well not be honoured by the new owner. The point is, nothing is certain.
Don’t get me wrong the Miele is a good machine as I said, much better than most of the rubbish out there, it’s just that I don’t agree with a lot of how they operate. I think it’s closed, monopolistic and unfair to their customers that they do not allow anyone to service their own machine or indeed have anyone other than Miele service it.
HTH
K.
Re: W3922 vs ISE10
I’ve just checked Asko’s site and there are a good few machines that look almost identical to the ISE.
Now, don’t shoot me down here, but i’ve also been through a couple of dozen reviews on Asko machines and they seem very hit and miss. Now, I know that people usually only speak when something goes wrong but I just want to see some positive customer reviews of this ISE machine. I really want to have something concrete so I can say ‘Yes! I really do want that one!!’ Really struggling to find anything on the ISE model.
The Miele machine I have ordered and that I am in two minds whether to cancel is one of their higher end units (I think). Does anyone have any opinions on this exact model – W3922WPS? reevoo and other independent reviews seem to suggest it’s a very good model.
This would all be made easier if I had similar reviews for the ISE machine.Can you tell i’m wanting an excuse to buy it??? 😉
How quiet are they? Is the porthole door surround plastic? It looks it on the picture I have in front of me.
Does anyone know how ISE’s sales are going? And what their sales to fault ratio is? Miele have said they will dig that data out for me for the W3922. Should give me a clue how reliable each are.
Re: W3922 vs ISE10
Currently failures on ISE10 are running at less than 1{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}, a lot less. The expected failure rate is under 6{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} in five years but, to put that into perspective, most manufacturers anticipate 8{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} failure in the first year alone never mind five.
Unfortunately we can’t get (or force) people to write reviews. 😉
A few owners have commented on here though if you have a dig around and you have to remember that this particular model series under ISE was only introduced in October 2007.
I would point out though that what we see a lot is that people will slate a new machine because it works differently to their last one. But the car you drive today and TV you watch are different to the one you had ten or fifteen years ago and that’s accepted but, like them, the technologies used in appliances have moved on as well and there has been changes. The basic principals are the same sure, but the execution can differ quite dramatically with the biggest bugbear being the performance on time but, as I often say to people, you can’t have a car that returns 65mpg and goes from 0-60 in 4 seconds either, it’s often a compromise that we all just have to live with. On the ISE10 there is little compromise, you get as close to the best of both worlds as you can I think.
I don’t really keep up with the Miele internals, not many of us see them for a while and remember the restrictive service thing which lessens that still further. The only time I see them are when they’ve been clobbered in some pubs etc. where they carry little warranty.
There are a couple of Miele agents on here who may be able to give you more information on that specific model, if they’ve seen one, but at least two of them I know sell ISE10’s over Miele. 😉
K.
Re: W3922 vs ISE10
I’d certainly like to hear any comments from those Miele agents you aluded to.
I had a mail back from Miele’s customer support and it seems they are unable to lay their hands on the information they said they would get for me. So, in short, I can’t compare their failure rate with yours.
Would anybody be able to post any pictures (besides the ones in the brochures) of their ISE10 – with particular attention to the door/seal and the controls. Not being able to see the unit in the flesh makes buying an awkward proposition – I like to see them first, that way you get a better feel for the quality. Photos, if somebody can oblige, would be the next best thing.Also, the question I asked about it’s noise level – is it quiet?
I had a Whirlpool AWM8163 (well, still have but the motor cuts out at spin now – F11 error – told it needs replacing) and up until fairly recently it has always been very quiet indeed.Thanks all.
Re: W3922 vs ISE10
No pictures of the door seal, it doesn’t have one as such. The door is fixed directly to the outer drum, no door seal, nothing to leak, distort or go mouldy. 8)
As an aside the price of a rubber door seal for one model of Miele washer dryer was until recently around £245.00 😯
Here is a picture of matching ISE 10’s I installed about six months ago.
The customer bought the £650 dryer first, liked it so much that after a week she ordered the washer to match and gave her 2 year old Hotpoint to her daughter. She thinks the machines are brilliant.
Jim.
Re: W3922 vs ISE10
IncredibleMrT wrote:I’d certainly like to hear any comments from those Miele agents you aluded to.
I have been selling Miele appliances for the last 30 odd years and the Asko machines ( ISE 10 😉 )for about 20 odd years. I have also installed some ISE10 machines as well.
The Miele machines as we all know are well constructed and perform well. The Asko series are equally well made and have a similar warranty. I have customers who have Miele and Asko machines which are in excess of fifteen years old and still going strong.
The ISE10`s I have installed have been an absolute pleasure to install, I always do a rinse spin option to check for leaks etc while I demo the machine to the customer. When the machine ramps up to the maximum 1600 spin everyone has commented how quiet they are. I have even stood a 50p piece on its edge to demonstrate how stable they are.
HTHDon
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