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Re: lg hall sensor
This device is actually an integrated circuit comprising the hall sensor, ampifier, power supply/temperature compensator and schmitt trigger.
The schmitt trigger causes the amplifed hall signal to swing between the voltage rail limits in effect giving a digital output. As drinkywinky writes the best way to test it is to measure its output in situ.
Andy 😀
Lucky GoldstarRe: Unusual request
“Keep your integrity, tell him you’re not prepared to do it because ‘as he knows’ you’re honest with your customers!”
It is possible that this chappie is testing you to see how honest you are. Best to deal honestly with people, you will always benefit in the long term.
Andy 😀
Re: Not all manufacturers are bad
Ken I am not doing a comparison with ISE, that was not my intention, so no need to be on the defensive. Just trying to pass on my experience so that it might be of benefit to others as i thought that was the intention of this excellent web site. But as i wrote earlier , i know you guys are involved with ISE and i don’t want to upset anybody.
If Gorenje do start selling through ‘the sheds’ then i am certain that they will live to regret it as it would almost certainly alienate all the indies who retail their machines. Their present stategy of putting out warranty work to the independant sector through an agency, coupled with the incentive to retail machines has got to be sucessful (as i know you will agree 😉 ).
The rumours that Gorenje want to deal with the sheds were rampant when i began to retail their machines two years ago, so i don’t take them too seriously.
When you say that Gorenje machines are not underwritten like ISE was i find it difficult to understand your point Ken. As a sucessful business, Gorenje have been around for about 55 years and they are the 4th largest supplier of white goods in Europe, producing around 3.5 million appliances annually, which they sell into 60 different countries. This cannot be compared to a brand new company, with no financial resources, relying on an amount that is placed aside from each sale to cover the warranty liability on a machine with no track record.
When i approached you at the time the warranty issue was resolved with regard to selling ISE’s i was told that to deliver to my area would cost too much unless i could come to some arrangement with another retailer in my area. This thread is probably still on the ISE forum if you have a look. It was when John anounced that the liabilty was covered by an insurance company. I replied ‘What a good idea! (or words to that effect)
kwatt wrote:But Gorenje is well known and some of the guys here have tried it. Nuff said.
Could you be more specific?
Andy 😀
Re: Not all manufacturers are bad
OK, the firm is Gorenje. Around two years ago i did sign up to sell the ISE machine as you know, but then had an issue with the financing of the warranty liability (which was later resolved).
As this had implanted the idea of retailing into my head i decided to look around and see what else was on offer. After considering all the options i decided that Gorenje seemed a good bet considering their prices and the standard two or five year warranty.
Gorenje also allow the retailer to do the warranty work on their own sales through ISDAL. The payment per job is currently £40 + VAT with spares at cost (bought from ISDAL) good prices.
The washing machine range starts at less than £140 + VAT from D.A.D. for a basic 1400 RPM spin (WA50140) with a TWO year guarantee.
In the last two years i have sold almost 120 Gorenje machines mostly the same model (which makes spares stocking easy) to existing customers. Every one has worked perfectly from installation and as you can imagine at these prices and with a two year warranty they are easy to sell even with a hefty markup. To be honest i have not made much from warranty work as they are very reliable, but i do have a lot of happy customers.
As spares are very reasonably priced the machines should generate lots of post warranty work and they are easy to work on. the only downside being the non removable front cover, but it is reasonably easy to lift tub out of top. Not that i anticipate doing this too often as they have chunky bearings fitted 6206ZZ & 6205ZZ. There is a single control module fitted behind the facia which is a complete solution – so no seperate slave timers, input modules or board comunications errors. There is a full set of error codes and test routine and access to Gorenje tech web site. Large removable rear panel. Module, pump, interlock, motor and door seal very easy to fit.
As you know Ken i did want to sell ISE’s too when the warranty issue was resolved but it was not viable to deliver to my neck of the woods at the time due to delivery costs. If anybody wanted to sell both they would complement each other being in different price ranges.
Andy 😀
Forgot to mention Gorenje only deal with independant retailers so no competition from the sheds on price.
Re: Not all manufacturers are bad
I did explain Ken, that this manufacturer runs a scheme similar to ISE and i don’t want to tread on anyone’s toes.
If it’s OK with you then i will explain who it is and what they do. I don’t want to stir up any excretia but i do know that many of those who are struggling with the current declining repair situation would be benefited by this knowledge.
Andy 😀
Re: Not all manufacturers are bad
Can’t say anymore without permission but this manufacturer has turned my business around.
😀
Re: Not all manufacturers are bad
I was not refering to ISE but can’t divulge the name of this manufacturer and the setup they offer without permission from the owners of UK whitegoods as it would create a conflict of interests with regard to ISE.
Andy 😀
Re: Any G.I.A.S. engineers out there ?
This part does not pertain to any particular machine Martin. It is a programming unit for their modules.
Re: Any G.I.A.S. engineers out there ?
Yep – thats the part number and it is available – checked with GIAS. It can program most of the core modules for most appliances (if loaded with the relevant data).
Andy 😀
Re: Any G.I.A.S. engineers out there ?
The strange thing is that you can buy these new programmers that will allow you to program most GIAS modules (£413 + VAT – OUCH!) but without the data off the website they are useless. Unlike the earlier ones that sat between a laptop and the module, these are a stand alone unit which is capable of storing internally the data for most of their modules.
This allows you to reprogram a module (even a second hand one) that will fit in loads of different models with the relevant data for a particular model.
Pity really. Anyway thanks for your input.
Andy 😀
Gorenje Test program for WM with timers PG1 and PG2
Gorenje Test program for WM with timers PG1 and PG2
eg WA61111, WA61121, WA62121Use in conjunction with fault codes in the other thread
MAKE SURE MACHINE IS UNLOADED !!
Press and hold buttons START/PAUSE and RINSE HOLD and turn round the program knob for 1 step in left (anti-clock side) ~10″
Self test of micro is executed and test program begins:
All LED goes ON for 5 sec.
• If self test O.K, than all LED OFF
• If self test is not O.K., than all LED are flashing. The rhythm of flashing is same that when some fault happen ( ¼ sec. ON and ¼ sec. OFF ).
~10″Door lock control(activated door lock and wait, that contact is close – max.10 sec)
• If it is O.K. than all LED ON
• If is not O.K. the fault F2 display 2″NTC control
(check resistance of NTC between 10 to 40°C , min. 2 sec.)
• If it is O.K. than all LED OFF
• If it is not O.K. the fault F1 display
~60″+20”Water filling
Open the valves Hot Water, Man Wash and Pre Wash. Water goes in 3 different space in dispenser.
– HW : 5 ’’ (space 2), if it is connected to hot/cold water
– PW : 10’’ (space 1)
– MW : 10’’ (space 2)
– PW + MW : to reach level 1 (space 1,2 and 3)
max. time for all is 60’’
• If it is O.K. (before 60’’ reach level 1) than all LED ON
• If it is not O.K. the fault F3 display
~75″Washing and heating
Washing: 15’’ON / 5’’OFF / 15’’ON/5’’OFF
– 3 times repeats washing
– last wash is in spin direction and without pause
– Heater ON all time of washing (75”)
All together is 75”. After this time switch OFF heater, washing goes to spinning.
• If it is O.K. (motor rotate in both direction) than all LED OFF
• If it is motor not O.K. the fault F4 or F5 display
~30″Spinning with water
30’’ spin on max.500 rpm
(or speed define with Pad’s, if it is lower than 500 rpm)
– wait to drum stop
~40″Draining– switch pump ON for 40 ‘’
Check if water level fall under level 1
• If it is O.K. ( in 40‘’ level under level 1) than all LED ON
• If it is not O.K. the fault F7 display
~60″End spinning
pump stay ON
– 10’’ spin from 0 rpm to max. rpm
(if necessary switch ON tape field)
– 50’’ on max. spin speed
– wait to drum stop
– switch OFF all component
• If it is O.K. (motor reach max. spin speed) than all LED OFF
• If it is not O.K. the fault F8 displayTurn the program knob on 0 (OFF) position
End the test programHoover Fridge / Freezer Mod HFA290
Hoover Fridge / Freezer Mod HFA290 but probably works with most similar
Fit a multimeter on min 20A range in series with N or L of supply (I use a 6ft adapted 13A adapter (GIAS patch cord)). Check stated current at each test phase.
1) HavingTHE REFRIGERATOR UNPLUGGED, TURN THE TEMPERATURE KNOB RIGHTWISE, UP TO THE “SUPER” SETTING (END OF RUN CLOCKWISE).
2) PLUG-IN THE REFRIGERATOR (OR, BETTER, FEED IT THROUGH THE MAINS SWITCH OF GIAS’ PATCH CORD).
3) THE GREEN LED LIGHTS-UP. WITHIN 7 SECONDS FROM IT’S LIGHTING, ROTATE LEFTWISE THE KNOB, UP TO REACH THE “0” (END OF RUN). IF THE ACTIVATION IS OK, THE YELLOW LED LIGHTS FIXED.MISSING ACTIVATION IS CONFIRMED BY THE ONLY GREEN LED LIGHTED. UNPLUG THE FRIDGE AND WAIT 6′ BEFORE RETRYING.
CARRYING OUT OF AUTOTEST
•1st PHASE – DURATION ABOUT 7 SECONDS: IT’S BEING TESTED
• THE REFRIGERATOR’S NTC PROBE
• CURRENT TO THE FREEZER’S FAN MIN 1A
• CURRENT TO COMPRESSOR MAX 7A
• CURRENT TO THE REFRIGERATOR’S FAN (WHEN PRESENT)•2nd PHASE – DURATION ABOUT 7 SECONDS: IT’S ON THE FRIDGE’S LAMP MAX 15W MIN 80 mA MAX 120 mA
•3rd PHASE – DURATION ABOUT 7 SECONDS: CURRENT TO THE DEFROSTING HEATER MIN 900 mA MAX 1A 233W
400 Litres – Top Mount – 700 mA 800 mA 165W
Combi – 300/350 Litres – 700 mA 800 mA 190W
Combi – 390 Litres – 900ma 1 amp 233W•4th PHASE – DURATION ABOUT 7 SECONDS: Electric “OFF”
In this phase, it’s being fed the only microprocessor section of the electronic control board. MIN 60 mA MAX 80 mA•END OF THE AUTOTEST ROUTINE:
ONCE THE AUTOTEST CHECKING ROUTINE IS ENDED, THE MICROPROCESSOR BRINGS THE APPLIANCE BACK TO NORMAL CYCLING, AFTER A 6 MINUTES DELAY TO BALANCE PRESSURES.
1st PHASE – DURATION ABOUT 7 SECONDS:
CHECKING THE CONDITIONS OF REFRIGERATOR’S PROBE
IN THIS PHASE, THE SOFTWARE TESTS THE CONDITION OF THE REFRIGERATOR’S NTC TEMPERATURE’S SENSING PROBE. IF THE PROBE SHOULD BE FOUND SOMEHOW FAULTY, THEN BOTH THE GREEN AND YELLOW LEDS FLASH TOGETHER FOR 7 SECONDS.
NEXT, THE ONLY YELLOW LED FLASHES, FOR 7 SECONDS. ONCE THE YELLOW LED STOPS FLASHING, THE AUTOTEST IS HALTED AND THE OTHER PHASES TO COME ARE JUMPED OVER. THE SOFTWARE STARTS IMMEDIATELY THE SPECIAL ALARM CONDITION (AS IT’S DESCRIBED NEXT), BY MAKING THE MOTOR RUN CONTINUOUSLY, IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE FROZEN FOOD. IF THE CHECK OF THE PROBE IS OK, THAN THE AUTOTEST GOES ON TO PHASE 2, 3 AND 4. HERE IT’S IMPORTANT THE READING OF CURRENT VALUES TO BE SURE TESTED COMPONENTS ARE OK.ALARM CONDITION:
During the normal cycling of the appliance, the software performs checks of the condition of the probe at regular intervals of time. If a fault of the probe is confirmed after two checks in sequence, then:The Yellow (SUPER) Pilot LED Is Lighted Flashing: The Compressor is Made Run Continuously (100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d})
Probable Reasons of the issuing of Alarm Condition:
A) Refrigerator’s NTC Temperature’s Sensing Probe being found SHORT or OPEN CIRCUITED.
B) The Refrigerator performed the last 3 Freezer’s Defrostings up to the designed limit time of one hour. This means that each one of the 3 defrostings lasted up to one hour. Reasons of this may be:1) OPEN CIRCUIT DEFROSTING HEATER.
2) DEFECTIVE DEFROSTING THERMOSTAT AND THERMAL FUSE ASSEMBLY (SEE PREVIOUS).
3) FAULTY ELECTRONIC BOARD.ALARM CONDITION:
HERE FOLLOWS A SUGGESTION ABOUT AN EASY TEST, HELPFUL TO IDENTIFY WHICH OF THE TWO REASONS (A AND B) IS THE ACTUAL CAUSE OF THE ALARM CONDITION, THAT’S TO SAY THE “SUPER” LED FLASHING:
1) ROTATE THE THERMOSTAT KNOB BACK TO “0” SETTING AND LEAVE IT ON “0” FOR 30 SECONDS.
2) RESET THE KNOB TO ANY SETTING, EXCEPT “0”.
IS THE YELLOW LED STILL FLASHING?(A) YES – DEFECTIVE PROBE.
(B) NO – VERY LONG DEFROSTINGS.
WHAT MAY HAPPEN IN CASE OF OPEN CIRCUIT THERMAL FUSE?CHECK CONTINUITY WITH METER ON CONTACTS 1 – 2 OF THE CONNECTOR. (Thermal fuse)
•EFFECTS ON THE BEHAVIOUR OF THE REFRIGERATOR:
DEFROSTING HEATER IS NOT WORKING. – THE DEFROST THERMOSTAT DOESN’T READ +10°C, SO IT STAYS CONTACTS CLOSED.
CONSEQUENCES:
TROUBLES RELATED TO THE BIMETAL & THERMAL FUSE ASSY:
Since the bimetal defrost thermosatat remains closed, the defrosting will reach the designed limit time of one hour. On ce this time is ended, the board halts the defrosting. Once defrosting is halted,the refrigerator goes back to the normal functioning, but this anomaly is kept in memory. If the anomaly (1 hour defrosting) is then repeated for three times in sequence, the Alarm Condition will be activated and the yellow led will be made flashing, for the User to ask for a Service’s intervention.
THE YELLOW “SUPER” LED IS FLASHING !!
Please note that extended time freezer’s defrosting can be due also to external causes, i.e. door was forgotten opened. If so, the next freezer defrosting to came (or at least the 3rd one) should set the situation. Trouble exists only if yellow led is still flashing after 24 hours.
WHEN IN DOUBT, CARRY OUT THE AUTOTEST.
WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES OF SHORT CIRCUITED DEFROST THERMOSTAT?PROBABLE CONSEQUENCES ON THE PERFORMANCES:
Since the defrost thermostat is short circuited, it remains with contacts closed, even after the temperature of + 10°C is reached
on the evaporator, so continuing to feed the heater. The heater goes on producing heat, until it’s reached the opening temperature of the safety thermal fuse (+ 75° C). This may happen during the 1st “faulty” defrosting (if the evaporator is poorly frosted) or for sure it will happen during the next defrosting to come. After the opening of the fuse, next defrostings will be performed without the heater. Their excessive duration will activate the Alarm Condition, confirmed by the yellow led flashing. Open fuse is mostly due to shorted bi-metal.YELLOW “SUPER” LED IS FLASHING !!!
WHEN IN DOUBT, CARRY OUT THE AUTOTEST.
Re: Cannon 20155E Cooker
Yep, i found that out on the second attempt. I had a wedge of jobs on that day and this was my first one so it was eating into my time. In the end i just got frustrated with it and left it. the next day i was not under pressure and it took me about 2 minutes to sus after engaging brain. It is the MO stat – no output to fan motor.
Thanks very much anyway, for your help
Andy 😀 😀
