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Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
lee8 wrote:
CHRISX wrote:
Phew! Or better still to really express our emotions I refer you to the famous quote by Charles M Duke Jr speaking from ‘Mission Control in Houston .’ during the Apollo 11 moon landing………. …..”you’ve got a bunch of guys here about to turn blue!”BUT, I have to tell you, I’m not holding my breath over this. I feel this ‘story’ will continue. We haven’t heard the last of this………… 😉
“Hello Martin”,I posted the `Final Result` / Update out of courtesy to Members – this was a very long thread and despite getting responses from some people who would NOT have said what they wrote to Me in person I wanted to act respectfully to the Forum because I received excellent Help and Information about a problem with my Washing Machine.
I wanted to leave this thread feeling like I did the right thing by `Ending it` with the details of what happened.
Please let Me know what You meant by this comment:
BUT, I have to tell you, I’m not holding my breath over this. I feel this ‘story’ will continue. We haven’t heard the last of this…………
IF You have doubts about the Control Module / PCB replacement having solved all of the problems that I previously described that would suggest to ME that You did have views on what was causing the `Strange Malfunctions` on my Fridge Freezer and that You now think that replacing the Control Module / PCB may NOT have dealt with ALL of the malfunctions ?
Leaving Me `Hanging on your words` without explaining what You mean would not be appropriate behaviour for a `Senior Member` of any Forum – causing Me to doubt the reliability of my Fridge Freezer AFTER a Repair without giving Me an explanation is not a `Gentlemanly` thing to do.Please do the `Decent Thing` and explain what You meant by your comment
Regards,Chris
I’d have said my comments in person. You wouldn’t have been the 1st. Been on many rodeo’s.
I was hoping that I could have left this thread without THIS happening:
lee8 – If You called Me an Idiot in person You would very quickly feel like you were in a Rodeo – in with the Bull !
People don`t have any reason to Insult Me as I go through life – but I would respond severely to anyone who did – chastising them for their impertinence.You had NO reason to Insult Me on this tread.
You can write what You like on here about what You would do – but You would not Insult Me if you were in front of Me – and I can assure You that I would NOT be Insulted by You or anyone else in Person and not respond physically.
ChrisRe: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
Martin wrote:Phew! Or better still to really express our emotions I refer you to the famous quote by Charles M Duke Jr speaking from ‘Mission Control in Houston .’ during the Apollo 11 moon landing………. …..”you’ve got a bunch of guys here about to turn blue!”
BUT, I have to tell you, I’m not holding my breath over this. I feel this ‘story’ will continue. We haven’t heard the last of this………… 😉
“Hello Martin”,I posted the `Final Result` / Update out of courtesy to Members – this was a very long thread and despite getting responses from some people who would NOT have said what they wrote to Me in person I wanted to act respectfully to the Forum because I received excellent Help and Information about a problem with my Washing Machine.
I wanted to leave this thread feeling like I did the right thing by `Ending it` with the details of what happened.
Please let Me know what You meant by this comment:
BUT, I have to tell you, I’m not holding my breath over this. I feel this ‘story’ will continue. We haven’t heard the last of this…………
IF You have doubts about the Control Module / PCB replacement having solved all of the problems that I previously described that would suggest to ME that You did have views on what was causing the `Strange Malfunctions` on my Fridge Freezer and that You now think that replacing the Control Module / PCB may NOT have dealt with ALL of the malfunctions ?
Leaving Me `Hanging on your words` without explaining what You mean would not be appropriate behaviour for a `Senior Member` of any Forum – causing Me to doubt the reliability of my Fridge Freezer AFTER a Repair without giving Me an explanation is not a `Gentlemanly` thing to do.Please do the `Decent Thing` and explain what You meant by your comment
Regards,Chris
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
“Hello All”,
Here is the outcome regarding the Repair to my Bosch Fridge Freezer:
As I stated in one of my previous messages I was concerned that I might get an Unbranded Compressor fitted [because of the first Engineers `diagnosis` that the Compressor was defective / Compressor ordered] – and I thought that this would possibly be an `Inferior Part` to the Danfoss Compressor – so I contacted the Breakdown Cover Company who were sending the Engineer [2nd Engineer] and I managed to get put through to the Engineers department Manager.
I explained my concern about the replacement Compressor and the Manager looked at the Parts Order and told Me that I would be getting the same model of Compressor that is fitted to my Bosch Appliance – as made by Danfoss.
He stated that this was because they did not want to cause any difficulties for the Engineers while fitting the Compressors – regarding the connections etc. and that a Bosch Refrigeration Appliance would always be getting Bosch approved parts when being repaired by them.I was very pleased with this I would be getting a New Compressor for my Fridge Freezer – IF the second Engineer just carried out the Repairs / Replaced BOTH the Compressor and the Control Module without questioning the original `Diagnosis`.
Yesterday the Engineer came [2nd Engineer] and as I thought might happen He asked Me to describe the Malfunctions that I had told `Engineer 1` about a Week earlier.
After hearing my descriptions [as at the beginning of this thread] He turned On the Fridge Freezer and lay down near the back of the Appliance – the Temperature settings lights went Off and On again with a loud `Click` and He identified this Click as coming from the Diverter Valve – NOT the Compressor as the first Engineer had stated [He did NOT get down to check this].
He pointed the Diverter Valve out to Me and I witnessed the loud Click was coming from it – He commented that IF that ever fails the Appliance becomes `un-repairable` because they cannot get a replacement that the existing pipes can be connected to – I did not ask for further details about this although I would have liked to know exactly what He meant.
The Engineer then stated that He would replace the Control Module as that this was causing the Diverter Valve problem and should solve also the various other problems / malfunctions – He replaced the Module / PCB section – turned the Appliance back On and the Fridge Freezer started up as Normal – made the right `noises` and began to Cool the Fridge and Freezer Compartments.I had Digital Thermometers that I put into the Compartments to be able to quickly see the Temperature drops – but the Engineer felt the back of the Fridge and stated that He could feel it Cooling.
We both looked at the original PCB and could NOT see any sections that looked faulty – no discolouration of the lines or `dry joints` etc. – He stated that this is often the case where nothing is evident when looking at the PCB – I asked about Capacitors or Resistors [?] etc. becoming defective but obviously He does not get involved in finding out WHY a PCB / Control Module has failed.
So – NO NEW DANFOSS COMPRESSOR ! – He did have the Danfoss Compressor with Him.
I had GUESSED last Week that the Compressor was NOT at Fault / Malfunctioning – despite the first Engineers `Diagnosis` – as I was able to get the Appliance working after the first `Strange Malfunctions` that I wrote about to start this thread – and again after His visit.
The irritating thing about this was that the first Engineer tried to stop Me from describing ALL of the Malfunctions that had previously occurred – only about a MINUTE after He turned On the Fridge Freezer because `He knew what is wrong – the Compressor has gone` [words to that effect] – `from the `Click On` of the Compressor`.IF I had not insisted on Him listening to the description of the previous malfunctions the second Engineer would NOT have had the Control Module to fit !
This would have meant ANOTHER WEEKS WAIT for a THIRD Engineers visit ! !
I did ask the Engineer some questions about the Strange Malfunctions that I previously described on here – He could only state that `a Faulty PCB can cause various strange things to happen`.I mentioned that I was particularly intrigued that wedging the Freezer Door open for a couple of Hours actually STOPPED the Temperature Settings Display lights from going Off and On with the loud `Click` and enabled Me to get the Appliance operating again but He could not speculate as to what might have happened regarding that.
I imagine from some previous remarks on this thread that some Members were bored by this thread / did not like some of my comments / attitude but I wanted to post this Update / Final Result out of courtesy to the Forum Members who might have read this thread with some interest.
Thanks again to Members who tried to be helpful.
Regards,Chris
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
lee8 wrote:An alternative is not inferior. By you asking the question in the manner you have indicated that you are expecting issues with both the components and the diagnosis. That is not an assumption on my part it’s pretty obvious.
Anyway let’s move on and await the next thrilling instalments of the very strange things Bosch fridge freezer do.
“Hello lee8”,Although Martin responded to my message about Me having found the Danfoss Compressor on the Partsmaster website for approx. £224.00 Delivered by informing Me that it can be purchased by the Trade for approx. £65.00 Plus VAT [£78.00] I would have been under the impression that this Danfoss Compressor would be of Better Quality Manufacture and therefore more `Reliable` than an Unbranded Compressor – is that NOT so ?
HERE ARE A FEW EXAMPLES OF THIS REGARDING HEATING PRODUCTS IN USE IN THE U.K:
In the Domestic / Commercial Heating Industry Honeywell Zone Valves and Electrical Controls and Danfoss Zone Valves and Electrical Controls are `Superior Quality` Products to ALL other Manufacturers Zone Valves and Electrical Controls – in terms of Manufacturing Quality and Reliability .
With very few exceptions apart from some individual Controls examples where there are slight variations in what can be Programmed into the Control – for example some Manufacturers Programmable Room Thermostats are `on a par` with Honeywell and Danfoss.
Grundfos Circulating Pumps for Heating Systems are of a `Superior Quality` and Reliability to ALL other Manufacturers Pumps except for Wilo Pumps which I would rate as a `close second`.
Honeywell and Danfoss Thermostatic Radiator Valves are `Superior Quality` in terms of Manufacturing Quality and Reliability to ALL other TRV`s available on the UK Market.
THESE ASSERTIONS COULD OBVIOUSLY BE STATED TO BE `JUST MY OPINIONS` – BUT AS YOU PUT IT THEY ARE `EDUCATED OPINIONS` AS I HAVE INSTALLED HUNDREDS OF CENTRAL HEATING SYSTEMS DURING THE LAST 40+ YEARS AND I SPECIFY AND SUPPLY THE PUMPS – ZONE VALVES AND ELECTRICAL CONTROLS AS WELL AS THE REST OF THE MATERIALS.
I realise that I have not given Parts for Boilers / Gas Appliances as examples but I would not have the necessary information about the various components Quality of Manufacture or `Reliability` [or otherwise] as I do not carry out Boiler / Gas Appliance Repairs.
Can similar assertions be made for Manufacturers of Refrigeration Products ?
I would appreciate Your and other Member opinions on this Please.Chris
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
Martin wrote:lee8 has never grasped the difference between the word THERE (adverb) and THEIR (determiner). A simple error but grammar is not a compulsory requirement in forum dialogue anyway. A relief for most that post on here. 😉
“Hello Martin”,I of all People using the Forum have NO right to even mention `Punctuation` because of the way that I use it [often incorrectly] and because of that I would NEVER try to be Pedantic to anyone about it.
My reference to Him `being clever about punctuation` was about His comment about the `Full Stop` – I then pointed out that He used the wrong WORD.As I mentioned He should have written `They are` ……… – in the context of what He was stating.
I probably would NOT have picked Him up on that but We were `Arguing` a point and I had already received an Insult from Him previously.
Regards,
Chris
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
lee8 wrote:Within my trade of course, like you, I’m more than qualified to differentiate between the two. The difference is when an unqualified person makes assumptions.
As for my punctuation, it’s something l do, it’s usually the first sign someone is losing the argument, l just find it funny when they do resort to it.
Hello lee8″,Another misunderstanding !
I was NOT criticising Your punctuation – I use punctuation which sometimes looks so strange that I get comments about it – even though I do know how to punctuate correctly I use my own [incorrect] method.
You used the wrong WORD – `THERE` does NOT mean `They are`.
YOU were the one who mentioned `the full stop` [my punctuation reference].
ChrisRe: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
lee8 wrote:I’m an honest person. I call it as l see it, I’m not always correct, but I’m fairly sure I’m not the only person that would perceive your comments in a negative manor.
Us experts sometimes don’t fit inferior components, even if the client insists what they read on the net as being inferior is in their uneducated opinion, us experts within our fields are the best judges and not always out to con a person. I would also not question your expertise in your field, l fear you would also take a negative opinion if l did.
“Hello lee8”,Where are You getting the idea that I am Decrying the Experts on here – Yourself – Martin or any other Member ?
IF We leave aside the Personal Insult issue and in light of your comments quoted above deal with My comments about NOT wanting to have what I perceive to possibly be Inferior Compressor fitted to my Fridge Freezer:
My comments are NOT suggesting that You – Martin or any other Member / Independent Refrigeration Engineer would deliberately fit an `Inferior Quality Compressor` to my Appliance !
I am dealing with a Breakdown Cover Insurer – because of the VAST amount of `Claims` / Repairs that they have to deal with I feel that it is entirely likely that they WILL be wanting to fit the CHEAPEST Compressor that they can obtain which is `suitable` for my Bosch Fridge Freezer – ?It is the COMPANY / Company`s Policy regarding the quality of Parts that they supply for Repairs that I was questioning – NOT the Engineers.
I hope that this goes some way to salving your obvious annoyance at what You thought I meant.Chris
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
lee8 wrote:My full stop ends the sentence and bears no relationship to the following sentence. The term “there” refers to the person in charge, the decision maker.
“Hello again lee8”,As You are trying to be `clever` regarding your punctuation – stating that the full stop ends the sentence – the Error in your message is this:
You should have written `They are` – NOT `There`.
Chris
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
lee8 wrote:I’m an honest person. I call it as l see it, I’m not always correct, but I’m fairly sure I’m not the only person that would perceive your comments in a negative manor.
As a Self Employed Heating, Plumbing & Gas Contractor for over 30 Years I have acquired the `Get Things Done` attitude – I do NOT try to `Over-ride` People or Companies with Unrealistic requests or `Demands` for things to be done the way that I would like them to be carried out.I would never ask that any `Technical Task` be changed from the `Standard procedure` used by a Company or Individual UNLESS I KNEW that something was going wrong / could go wrong causing damage or a problem.
I sometimes engage other Sub Contractors and WE agree that they will carry out their Works to suit what I require of them – by mutual agreement.
As I have been in Business for 30+ Years I have NOT always found Sub Contractors who operated / carried out their Trades / Professions in an acceptable manner – like some People in ALL Trades / Professions – these People would never be working for Me again.
I would advise You to NOT simply accept that People / Companies will do things ONLY `Their Way` if it does not suit your requirements – Negotiate to have it done in a way that will suit your requirements – You may have to Pay extra but you would be satisfied with the end result.
Chris
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
lee8 wrote:If you re read my post l did not state you’d give it to the engineer, when l stated “there unlikely to fit a compressor you supply” l was referring to customer service.
They would be in breach of there own terms and conditions. It would also cause issue with a few acts of law.
As for vastly inferior components that is subjective, price and opinions often don’t reflect reality. I once attended a call to a person you remind me of, he would only buy German products. His Bosch tumble dryer had failed, the stat had gone open circuit it’s a common fault found on White Knight dryers, it happened to his Bosch because and his comments concerning White Knights inferior products made it all the more satisfying because he had indeed purchased a White Knight dryer, it just happened he bought the Bosch made by them, although it did cost a lot more, but contained the same specs and inferior components. I was tempted to point out his washer came from the Spanish Balay factory and is sold in Spain under that brand for around €200 less or that his fridge also came from Balay in Spain or his Neff ovens and hob also came from Spain. In fact the only relationships his products had to Germany was the word Bosch written on them.
I’ve also replaced many faulty Danfross compressor’s.
“Hello lee8”,You did NOT write or infer that You meant the Customer Services – this is what You wrote:
`There unlikely to fit a compressor you supply. Your more likely irritating them, the Eng will arrive, decide the repair is not viable and you’ll both part company`.
You suggested I would be giving the Compressor to the Engineer when He arrived by writing this:
`the Eng will arrive, decide the repair is not viable and you’ll both part company`.IF I had already dealt with the Engineers Department / Customer services I would KNOW whether they had AGREED to fit the Compressor supplied by Me before the Engineer arrived.
Chris
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
lee8 wrote:It makes a boring day much brighter, god must love armchair experts, there are so many clever idiots.
“Hello lee8”,I have NOT tried to put myself over as any kind of Fridge Freezer Expert – BUT I am an Expert in dealing with People like YOU when I am Face to Face with them – People don`t Insult Me in Person.
The fact that You would INSULT Me for stating that `I don`t take NO for an answer if there is a viable alternative` – words to that effect and You have also ignored the fact that I described being very polite to People when I am trying to negotiate to have something that `We don`t usually do` done shows either that You don`t assimilate what I have written OR You are just `Being Nasty` – ?I have looked at some of your other replies to Members – the majority that I read contained sarcastic comments / veiled insults.
What is it about the VERY DETAILED EXPLANATION of my attitude to `Getting things done the way that I would like` – that You don`t understand – OR that is Incorrect – ?Chris
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
Martin wrote:
CHRISX wrote:
You may not have met a person like Me before Martin …..Oh, believe you me CHRISX, I have been in the trade best part of 50 years and I have, on many many occasions, oh yes sir!
“Hello Martin”,You have obviously misunderstood what I wrote [again] – I would NOT be taking that attitude with You / an Engineer immediately / just for the sake of it – WE would be discussing what was possible – ONLY If I thought that You / the Engineer was `Flannelling` Me and that what I wanted WAS achievable would I take the stance that I described.
If the Engineer worked for a Company I would want to speak to His Supervisor / Manager to discuss further possibilities – NOT Argue with the Engineer who would just be adhering to His Company`s Instructions.
If [as I am guessing You may be] the Engineer was Self Employed I feel sure that I could negotiate to have whatever I wanted done regarding Repairing my Appliance – obviously this could be prohibitive Cost wise / `Beyond Economical / Sensible Repair`.
I hope that this explains what You obviously missed when I wrote:
`I am always very polite when I am requesting something is done which is different to the `Usual Way` that Companies do things – I am not stating that I deal with People / Companies in an Abrupt / Rude manner or try to Order them to do something`.
Regards,
Chris
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
lee8 wrote:There unlikely to fit a compressor you supply. Your more likely irritating them, the Eng will arrive, decide the repair is not viable and you’ll both part company. I fear one more relieved than the other.
“Hello lee8”,I know better than to wait for the Refrigeration Engineer to arrive at my Home and then try to convince Him to fit a Compressor that I give to Him:
If You re-read my previous message I stated that I would ASK the Engineers Department IF they would agree to fit a Compressor supplied by Me to the Engineer.
The EXACT MODEL of Compressor that is in the Bosch Fridge Freezer.
IF I can contact the Engineers Department directly [this may NOT be possible] why would they refuse my `Offer` – it would save them the Cost of whatever Compressor they would have been supplying.I am not worried about the Compressor that I supply NOT being covered by their `Parts and Labour Guarantee` [possibly 6 Months] because I will not be using them again.
I know that this will seem strange to You and other Members but I have this imagined situation where I would have the 2 Main Components in the Bosch Fridge Freezer replaced with vastly inferior products – turning the Appliance into nothing better than the CHEAPEST / MOST UNRELIABLE APPLIANCE available on the Market !
I thought that IF I could supply the Danfoss Compressor and they AGREED that the Engineer would fit it I would in some respect be preserving the `Quality` / `Reliability` of my Bosch Fridge Freezer – ?
I am fairly sure that IF the Control Module failed again in the future I could replace that myself – available on the sales section of this website for approx. £68.00 Delivered.Regards,
Chris
Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN
Martin wrote:
CHRISX wrote:
It would be very useful to know a few Brand Names before I try to speak to the Engineers Office [IF this will be possible ?].Err?….. Danfoss, Necchi, Aspera are the only popular branded ones I can think of. Some South Korean ones are OK but usually unbranded anyway. TBH the choice would not be yours to make anyway so the relevance is negative. The important factor surely is that it is fixed.
You could use the same scenario on getting getting your car headlights working again under guarantee. The choice of lightbulb manufacturer your car dealer chooses to fit cannot be yours to make!
“Hello Martin”,
Thanks for the additional Brand Names.
Regarding whether I have any choice in what Compressor is fitted – that MAY be the case but:
I am going to try Today online to find somewhere that I can purchase the Danfoss Compressor at a `Good Price` – although obviously NOT at the Trade Price that You very kindly informed Me about.IF I can find it at a `reasonable price` I will be trying to contact the Engineers department – Ask what Compressor they are going to supply & fit – if I don`t like the response I would ask them if they will be prepared to fit the EXACT MODEL OF COMPRESSOR THAT IS IN THE FRIDGE FREEZER – If I supply it to the Engineer at NO COST to them.
Of course I MAY NOT be able to find the Danfoss Compressor at a `reasonable price` using a Non Trade Supplier – or I might not be able to GUARANTEE having it at my Home by Thursday – in which case this would NOT be a possibility.
THIS IS PROBABLY GOING TO MAKE YOU DISLIKE ME:Regarding your scenario about getting my Car Headlight fixed under Warranty [not sure if the Bulbs are covered ?] – IF I thought that my Main Dealer Service Centre were likely to be fitting Bulbs [`Lamps`] that were inferior to an available alternative they WOULD be fitting the Bulbs that I specified because I would insist upon that and be fully prepared to Pay the additional Cost.
OR I would be prepared to actually Supply the Bulbs that I wanted fitted to them to fit.
I have already done a similar thing at my Car`s Main Dealer Service Centre when I was having a Service carried out – I did not want the Engine Oil that they use put into my Car`s Engine as I found out on a Forum associated with my Car that there was a Better Grade of Engine Oil for our vehicles – I arranged to supply my own Oil for the Service.
You may not have met a person like Me before Martin – I don`t take NO for an answer if I want something done and IF there is an alternative way to deal with ANY situation.I take the attitude that IF what I ask for is not completely unworkable and I am prepared to Pay any additional Costs it should be available to Me.
`We don`t usually do that` – is a term that does not dissuade Me from pursuing what I want done.
I am always very polite when I am requesting something is done which is different to the `Usual Way` that Companies do things – I am not stating that I deal with People / Companies in an Abrupt / Rude manner or try to Order them to do something.
Thanks again.Regards,
Chris
