[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

“Hello All”,

As I cannot get any answers to my questions about the strange malfunctions on my Bosch Fridge Freezer after a `Full Defrost` I have to conclude that No-one knows how any of the malfunctions could have been caused.


I am disappointed – You would never get this / `NO response` to Technical questions on a Heating & Plumbing Forum – or on a Electrical Forum – or on a Forum for Registered Gas Engineers [ONLY Gas Safe Registered Gas Engineers participating].

On those types of Forums You would definitely get some Heating Engineers / Electricians / Plumbers or Gas Engineers [Professional / Registered ONLY participating] responding.

Although as on here some `Remote Diagnosis` is often difficult if not impossible without being able to carry out Electrical Testing of components – there would be Heating Engineers – Electricians & Plumbers replying usually with knowledgeable suggestions of what could be causing the malfunctions on whatever was being asked about – especially if the Questioner / OP seemed to be likely to understand the answers / suggestions.

Perhaps there are some Refrigeration Engineers on here who DO know what could have caused the various malfunctions that I described but they will NOT reply to Me for some reason – perhaps they don`t want to speculate because of possible disagreements with their fellow Members ?

As I am a Heating Engineer, Registered Gas Engineer and Plumber with many qualifications and over 40 Years of experience in my Trades I do NOT agree with the premise that `It would do me no good to know what could have caused these malfunctions` – as a Refrigeration Engineer would be required to rectify further problems.

I would be able to understand anything that could be explained to Me about my Fridge Freezer malfunctions.

Regards,

Chris

N.B: In case someone misunderstands:

When I mention Gas Engineers on a Forum – They would NOT be advising the Public or other Trades – they are usually on a Plumbing & Heating Forum BUT within a section which can only be accessed by Gas Safe [UK Gas Safety Registration Organisation] Registered Gas Engineers / Gas Installers – the Forum requires proof of an Engineer`s Registration with Gas Safe.

The Registered Gas Engineers section hosts Forum questions and discussions between ONLY those Gas Engineers – NOT from the Public or from Plumbers or other Trades.

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

“Good Evening Martin”.

Chris

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

“Hello All”,

I am surprised and a bit disappointed that I have not received some more replies.

I thought that the causes of the malfunctions that I described in my message above would be identifiable ?

THESE MALFUNCTIONS HAPPENED AFTER DOING A FULL DEFROST [24 HOURS] WHEN TURNING THE APPLIANCE BACK ON:

What could cause the Temperature display lights to go Off and On again [with a loud Click from behind the Appliance] every 2 Minutes for over 80 Minutes ?

How could Opening / wedging Open the Freezer Door cause the Freezer / Appliance to Operate – BUT Closing it cause the Freezer / Appliance to NOT Operate and the Temperature display lights to flash ?

I am hoping that some Refrigeration Engineers will be able to identify these malfunctions from knowing the `Operating Sequence` and the Control components of the Fridge Freezer – ?

Regards,

Chris

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

“Hello Garywasher”,

Thanks for your message.

There definitely was not any overflow / excessive Water from the Water container – there is a very slight slope on my Kitchen Floor away from the Wall at the rear of the Fridge Freezer and any water would definitely have run out from below the front of the Appliance.

Also when I pulled the Appliance away from the wall about 300mm to try and see into the container after these strange events there was no Water in it – obviously a large amount of water could not have evaporated from the container in just a few Hours.

Also I would guess that IF Water had gone onto the `Electrics` that would have immediately Tripped the Kitchen MCB within my Electrical Consumer Unit and there would not have been ANY further `Off / On` of the Temperature display lights – these MCB`s are so sensitive that they Trip when a Light Bulb [`Lamp`] Blows.

The Fridge Freezer seems to have been working O.K. for 4 Days so I don`t think that the `Electrics` have been compromised.

I am still interested in some information about what could have caused these malfunctions.

For example – How could Opening / wedging open the Freezer Door cause the Freezer to operate – while Closing it caused the Freezer to NOT work because this `enabled` the Temperature display lights to Flash and that indicates that there is a `Fault` and the Appliance is NOT Operating – ?

Thanks for your reply I appreciate it.

Regards,

Chris

[CHRISX]

Re: BOSCH CLASSIXX FRIDGE FREEZER – TEMPERATURE LIGHTS FLASH

“Hello Martin”,

I would like to see if I can get some answers / comments from other Members about what could have caused these strange malfunctions to my Fridge Freezer when I turned it On after trying the Full Defrost.

I am going to Post the descriptions of these malfunctions in a separate thread.

As I suspect that there is a `Forum Etiquette` on here where other Members will NOT reply to threads where a Senior Member or Moderator is replying could You please NOT reply to Me on the other thread.

It is obvious to Me that You simply will not reply to questions that You feel for some reason that I do not need to know details about so please let Me see if other Members will comment on what I will be asking.

Thank You for your help and advice on this thread.

Regards,

Chris

[CHRISX]

Re: BOSCH CLASSIXX FRIDGE FREEZER – TEMPERATURE LIGHTS FLASH

Hello Martin,

You can see from my VERY detailed messages that I did NOT even know to access the rear of the Fridge Freezer – my first reply to You Today indicated that I thought You were Joking about the Water / Water Container / Pouring Water over the Compressor.

I did not see any Water at all as I did not know to look at the rear of the Appliance – certainly no Water ran onto the Floor as it would have run out across the tiles and been visible.

Not expecting any large amounts of Ice to be melting as there was none in the Freezer it would not occur to Me or anyone else that there could be enough Water to overflow onto the Floor.

After seeing your message I emptied the Fridge Freezer again and managed to pull it out a bit from the Wall to look down behind it with a torch – but I could not get it out enough to see the whole Compressor and Water container assembly [because of my Back problem] – I could just about see about 50mm of what looks like a poly water container – I could not see any Water in the part of that that I could see – the Floor is not wet under where that container would be located.

What does this indicate – that the Evaporator was not clogged full of Ice ? – I cannot imagine that anything `went wrong` during the Defrost – except for what You stated – 24 Hours was not long enough.

I explained at the time of our previous messages / a few weeks ago why I could not immediately carry out the Full Defrost – because of not having anywhere to Store the Freezer contents.

Also – I am a Heating Engineer – with the `Enquiring Mind` that I believe you commented on previously – How many Engineers have you dealt with who don`t ask any questions about what you are talking or corresponding about ?

The situations that I asked about earlier Today were very strange to Me:

How could opening the Freezer Door cause the Temperature Display lights to Stop Flashing and the Freezer to operate ?

Why would the Temperature Display lights have been turned Off and back On again about every 2 Minutes for about 2 Hours.

Anyone experiencing this would want to ask about it.

Regards,

Chris

[CHRISX]

Re: BOSCH CLASSIXX FRIDGE FREEZER – TEMPERATURE LIGHTS FLASH

“Hello again Martin”,

I did not answer your second question because I thought that You were Joking about the Water / Water Container and Pouring Water over the Compressor.

I did not empty any Water over the Compressor.

If that is something that should be done why would no-one have mentioned it on here during our various messages ?

I had stated at the time of my enquiry that I would be taking your advice and be carrying out a Full Defrost at some time.

That is not something that is mentioned in the User Manual – a `Trick of the Trade` perhaps ?

It would not have ever occurred to Me that this is something that needs to be done – so I am assuming that it would not be known by most of the general public.

Also if this needs the Appliance to be moved out to access the Compressor it would not be particularly convenient for Me at present as I am suffering from a severe Back problem and my Fridge Freezer is sited between Kitchen Units which would mean bringing it right out into the middle of the Kitchen – not possible for Me without help.

Could You please explain this `Water over Compressor` process a bit further – I take it that it speeds up the Defrosting process – ?

I was assuming – probably incorrectly it seems – that while carrying out a Full Defrost the most important thing was that I was Defrosting the Freezer Cabinet / Compartment `Walls` [and Temperature Sensor] where I thought the Freezer Temperature Sensor was located – although I know that there will be very good insulation in these `Walls` / around the Sensor I thought that approximately 30 degrees Room Temperature for 24 Hours+ would have `Thawed` the Freezer Cabinet `Walls` and the Sensor.

Is there any chance of You helping Me with some possibilities as to what caused the situations that I previously described happening earlier Today – I would really appreciate it – even if it is just speculation.

Thanks again.

Regards,

Chris

[CHRISX]

Re: BOSCH CLASSIXX FRIDGE FREEZER – TEMPERATURE LIGHTS FLASH

“Hello again Martin”,

Thanks for reading my messages.

I know that You were joking about the Water – but just in case: –

As I expected from a Frost Free Fridge Freezer there was hardly any water as there was only a very thin layer of Ice at the Top of the [inside] Freezer compartment – I wiped this away as it was melting on Saturday Night – it hardly wet the Cloth – it was the same with the Fridge compartment it was just a bit `Damp` on the back panel.

Just as a matter of interest and in case I have missed something – the `Water Container` – is there one within the Freezer compartment ?

I saw what I assumed to be the Access panel for a Fan at the rear of the Freezer compartment – but I am not aware of any Water container – ?

I thought that because of the current Temperatures that 24 Hours would be long enough.

It was almost 30 degrees in my Kitchen on Saturday Night [Windows closed]- as I was out all night on Saturday Night and all Day Sunday until 02:00 Hrs this Morning when it was 29 degrees – the Temperature would not have gone down much at any time because the Windows were closed for the entire 24 Hours +.

I would have thought that there could not be a better Temperature for doing a Full Defrost ?

I am VERY intrigued about this:

What do You make of what I described about the Temperature display lights and that the Freezer Door being Open seems to cause the Fridge Freezer to work – closing the Freezer Door causes the Temperature display light to Flash continuously again – ?

What could have caused the Temperature display lights [plus Power ?] to keep `Clicking Off` every couple of Minutes for nearly 2 Hours as I previously described ?

The latest situation is that after I wedged the Freezer Door Open for about 2 Hours I closed it – the Temperature Display Lights stayed On and the Fridge Freezer then seemed to just carry on running / cooling – I can hear the Compressor – the Red Alarm light is still illuminated.

Please give Me some idea of what You think has caused the above `Anomalies` regarding the Temperature Display Lights and the Freezer Door seeming to `Operate` the Appliance as if on a Door switch ?

Obviously I know that after all of the VERY strange [to Me] Temperature Display Light `Errors` that the Appliance is NOT operating correctly and the Temperature Lights could start Flashing again at any time.

If it were not the case that I still have a Freezer full of Food with a Supermarket Delivery coming the Morning I would turn the Fridge Freezer Off again and try 48 Hours Full Defrost – BUT I am now stuck with nowhere to store the Frozen Food and the new items being delivered Today.

Thanks again for your help Martin – I really appreciate it.

Regards,

Chris

[CHRISX]

Re: BOSCH CLASSIXX FRIDGE FREEZER – TEMPERATURE LIGHTS FLASH

PLEASE READ MY PREVIOUS MESSAGE OF TODAY ABOVE THIS FIRST – THIS IS A `FOLLOW UP`- 90 MINUTES LATER.

“Hello again”,

As I cannot Sleep because of this `Freezer Full of Food Ruined` problem I looked again at about 05:00 Hrs – 2.5 Hours after turning On the Appliance – the Fridge Freezer Display lights were Flashing again as I described in my original thread opening message.

I am guessing that now the advice will be that the Sensor that I was trying to `rid of Ice` has malfunctioned.

HOWEVER HERE IS SOMETHING THAT I FIND VERY STRANGE:

I found out accidentally that if I open the Freezer Door the Temperature Display lights STOP Flashing and the Appliance makes the usual noise that You would hear when the Compressor is operating – How is that happening ?

Basically the Fridge Freezer seems to be operating `correctly` with the Freezer Door OPEN – but when it is closed the Temperature Display Lights Flash and the Appliance does NOT work !


I have wedged the Freezer Door open about 50mm to see if after a couple of Hours I can close the Door and perhaps the Temperature Display lights will stay illuminated – even to just keep the Food frozen until I can act on whatever Advice I get on here – ?

Obviously I know that this cannot continue as it would be detrimental to the Freezer – I was just `clutching at straws` because of not wanting to have the Freezer Food ruined.

Could You please include some advice on whether this `Freezer Door slightly Open` process CAN be done for a few Hours at a time throughout the Day / Evening to TRY and keep the Freezer Food frozen for a few Days – OR would it cause Damage to the Freezer / Compressor etc. ?

Please help Me with some suggestions – even If I will need an Engineer I would like some idea of what could be causing this VERY strange [to Me] problem – ?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Regards,

Chris

[CHRISX]

Re: BOSCH CLASSIXX FRIDGE FREEZER – TEMPERATURE LIGHTS FLASH

:boops: “Hello again Martin, Bob and other Members”,

Further to My enquiries on here a few Weeks ago – taking your advice on carrying out a `Full Defrost` of my Fridge Freezer – I did this over the Weekend.

I turned off the power – completely emptied the Fridge and Freezer and left the Doors open for 24 Hours.

Because I had to take back my Freezer Food late tonight [People going on holiday early Today] I ended up turning the Fridge Freezer back on at 02:30 this morning – I think that I now have another / worse problem:

Obviously the Red Warning light is On and the Fridge Freezer needs to `Start Up` / Circulate the Gas etc. – BUT – about every 2 Minutes there is a loud `Click` and the Display lights go Off and then back On again within a couple of seconds.

This has happened every couple of Minutes for over 80 Minutes – and is on-going as I post this message at 03:55.

As I am writing this I know that this did NOT happen when the Appliance was first `Commissioned` after purchase – or when it has been Turned Off / Defrosted previously and then turned On again – I would have remembered this if it had happened.

I cannot imagine that there will be any `Good News` waiting for Me when I wake up to probably a Freezer full of Defrosting Food – or when I am able look on here later Today – But – `Here’s Hoping`.

Could You please advise Me what could have caused this – after just a `Full Defrost` ?

IF as I have to suspect the Fridge Freezer has a malfunction I am going to have to dispose of a lot of Freezer Food – and I have a Supermarket Shopping Delivery coming to My Home later this Morning !

Thanks in advance for your help.

Regards,

Chris

[CHRISX]

Re: BOSCH CLASSIXX FRIDGE FREEZER – TEMPERATURE LIGHTS FLASH

SAMURI wrote:You have airflow inside the freezer blown around by a fan.

The air over the evaporator is most likely restricted by ice giving incorrect readings for the sensors.

When you reset the PCB by turning it off it will also go into an auto defrost.

If too much ice is present then it will not fully defrost, then ice builds up slowly and sets of a warning on the display to say it is not cold enough.

When it has been fully defrosted then the defrost system should return to normal.

Bob

“Hello SAMURI / Bob”,

Thanks very much for your reply and for the information that I asked about.

I have never looked into the Freezer compartment with the Drawers removed so I had not known about the Freezer Fan / Freezer Air Circulation – I had only seen the Fridge Fan.

Having read your explanations I now completely understand the advice from Martin about carrying out a `Full Defrost` – which is why I had asked Him for more details about what the Defrost would achieve.

Martin felt that I should NOT ask these questions but just do what He advised without question.

Thanks very much to You and Martin for your help.

Regards,

Chris

[CHRISX]

Re: BOSCH CLASSIXX FRIDGE FREEZER – TEMPERATURE LIGHTS FLASH

SAMURI wrote:The sensors are not visible without dismantling the appliance as they are attached to the evaporator.

It if most likely a build up of ice so it restricts the airflow so the only option is to defrost or dismantle and defrost.

As the most likely problem is an air flow problem you would get an intermitant reading on the sensors.

Bob

“Hello SAMURI / Bob”,

Thanks very much for the explanation about the Sensors.

Although Martin will be irritated about Me asking more questions I must still ask You for your opinion on this point:

When the Temperature settings lights flash – both the Freezer and Fridge temperature lights – I have to turn off the Power to the Appliance – wait a few minutes and then turn the Power back On to stop the lights flashing.

If the Lights are Flashing because of a slight build up of Ice on a Sensor [on the Freezer ?] how could the Ice have gone only Minutes later with the Power Off – I cannot imagine that it melted away in that short time each time – ?

I would have thought that when I reinstated the Power the Ice would still be on the Sensor and that this would produce the Flashing Lights again ?

Also when You mention Airflow do you mean within the Fridge or behind the Appliance ? – am I correct to think that there is no Airflow within the Freezer ?

Thanks very much for your help with this.

As I wrote to Martin – I will be carrying out a `Full Defrost` in the future when I can get the Freezer Food eaten and an empty Fridge.

Regards,

Chris

[CHRISX]

Re: BOSCH CLASSIXX FRIDGE FREEZER – TEMPERATURE LIGHTS FLASH

Martin wrote:

CHRISX wrote:
“Hello Martin”,

Thanks for your reply.

I must explain this to You – Please don`t take offence:

Chris, you don’t need to waffle on at length explaining your ‘engineering enquiring mind’ nor worry at my taking offence at your comments. My colleague and I have advised you simply empty the contents, leave the doors open to allow a full defrost then try it again. More often than not IT WORKS!

No need to know which thermistor does what, why or where? Or which lights flash or what other setting to try? Just switch it off for 24 hrs then try it again……what have you got to lose by doing that? You don’t gave to do it now as it still is usable. But choose a time when your food stock is low, that any remaining could be put in a neighbours fridge overnight whilst you do it.

Go on, try it……:wink:

“Hello Martin”,

You don`t try not to offend do You – comments like this are not appropriate – I have been very polite in my messages to You:

QUOTE:

`Chris, you don’t need to waffle on at length explaining your ‘engineering enquiring mind’ nor worry at my taking offence at your comments`.

END QUOTE

I was `Waffling On` BECAUSE of your comments about `You know little about this` – `Just follow the advice without question` [words to that effect] etc. and explaining that I am the kind of person who would understand the details that I asked about.

What about if I answered a question about a Washing Machine or Fridge Freezer and gave advice about something that `I know nothing about` – should the OP / Readers simply follow MY advice without question – Ridiculous !

I know that You and other Members / Moderators can be seen as very prolific `Posters` [compared to someone like Me] – so that would suggest to New Members that You are VERY experienced `Engineers` and can be taken seriously regarding your advice – but Engineers involved in many Professions OFTEN disagree on matters.

I completely understand what SAMURI / Bob has explained in His message above – this is ALL I was asking You to give Me.

Personally I DO care NOT to cause any offence to people that I correspond with.

I will be carrying out a `Full Defrost` when I get the opportunity to get to an empty Freezer and Fridge – probably not this Summer unless the Appliance malfunctions during that period.

Unfortunately my Neighbours have all changed recently and as I have spent quite a few Years working away from Home for most of the Year I do not know them well enough to even ask about storing my Freezer Food.

Thanks again for your help.

Regards,

Chris

[CHRISX]

Re: BOSCH CLASSIXX FRIDGE FREEZER – TEMPERATURE LIGHTS FLASH

CHRISX wrote:

SAMURI wrote:
As Martin said it is best to fully defrost it as it may be ice on one of the sensors the defrost system cannot clear.

By turning it off you just reset the PCB and if it is ice on the evaporator or sensor it will not be working correctly and show as an intermittent fault.

Bob

“Hello Bob”,

Thanks very much for your reply and for the explanation about the possibility of a Sensor being affected by a build up of Ice.

As I have no way to store the Food in my Freezer at the moment I cannot carry out the `Full Defrost` process, I don`t have any Family or Friends living near Me who would have enough room in their Freezers to store my Frozen Food.

Could You let Me know where the Sensors are located within the Freezer – are they likely to be visible if looked for ?

Also could You let Me know what would happen if the `Temperature settings lights flashing` scenario happened when I was out all Day or away from Home – is it the case that the Freezer and Fridge would not be working from the moment that these lights started Flashing ?

Or is it possible that if the problem is being caused by a slight build up of Ice on a Sensor – if the Ice did clear that the Fridge Freezer would Reset itself because the Sensor could then operate – ?

I noted what You wrote about `Resetting the PCB` when powering off the Appliance and that an Intermittent Fault would not have been rectified but I cannot understand why for example any accumulated Ice on a Sensor would have dissipated when I turned the power back On a short time later ?

If any Ice was still on the Sensor just a short time after the Power Off would it not cause the Lights to still be Flashing when Power was restored ?

Also the Flashing Lights / whatever `Fault` is causing this are so intermittent that they have occurred more than 6 Months apart for the 3 times that this has happened.

I hope that Martin was not offended by Me asking for an explanation of what a `Full Defrost` would achieve – I was NOT questioning His knowledge and expertise – I just wanted to understand what His suggestion would do.

Thanks very much for your help with this.

Regards,

Chris

“Hello All”,

If I have not alienated Myself on the Forum with My reply to Martin [message above this] – I would still like the details that I asked Member SAMURI / Bob about Please

Please see the Quote above in this message.

Regards,

Chris

[CHRISX]

Re: BOSCH CLASSIXX FRIDGE FREEZER – TEMPERATURE LIGHTS FLASH

Martin wrote:

CHRISX wrote:
I hope that Martin was not offended by Me asking for an explanation of what a `Full Defrost` would achieve – I was NOT questioning His knowledge and expertise – I just wanted to understand what His suggestion would do.

Thanks very much for your help with this

I love your posting style, totally unique in the use of emboldened type and colour highlights. Specific in your questioning yet ignoring advice given in the same way as you did with your earlier washing machine problem. Yet in the end you went with it. Déjà vue!

I will offer a final bit of advice on the subject of your errant refrigerator : Don’t try and figure too much about something you have little knowledge of but seek advice and ACT on that advice. Don’t question it, do it…..you will save yourself a lot of time and unnecessary anxiety. 😉

“Hello Martin”,

Thanks for your reply.

I must explain this to You – Please don`t take offence:

I am Heating Engineer – Gas Engineer and Plumber / Heating, Plumbing & Gas Contractor – fully qualified to the highest UK level in each of these Trades and with 40 Years of experience in them.

Like MOST Engineers I have a `Enquiring Mind` for matters of a Technical nature whether during my Work or at Home and I feel that ALL technical advice should be explained to Me without any `Elitist / You know nothing Attitude` if I ask for further details.

I am not someone who is unfamiliar with working on `Appliances` / Electrical Safe Working etc. – although most are Gas Appliances.

Although I am mainly a Central Heating, Gas & Plumbing Installer I do Repair Gas Appliances for Friends and Family – when I have to replace a Part / Control I explain to the owner of the Appliance WHY it has to be done – going into technical details if necessary / requested – most of these people are not `Technically Minded` in any way – they just like to know what has happened to their Appliance.

As I have already mentioned in my messages that I am a Heating Engineer I am surprised with your comments about Me `not trying to figure out details about something that I have little knowledge about` – I find this an unusual attitude from one Engineer to another.

I hope that this experience with `Electronic Engineers` / `White Goods Engineers` on the Forum will not result in Me finding that SOME have the attitude `Don`t question what I advise` – `You know nothing` – Just do what I suggest without question` – !

What IF You / another Member had given Me incorrect advice – I ask for details BOTH to clarify in my mind the reasoning behind the suggestion and to see if other Members agree with the advice – I would suggest that this method is the best way to try and obtain Technical advice on ANY Forum.

Thank You very much for your advice to carry out a `Full Defrost` – this was subsequently explained to Me by Member SAMURI / Bob after I replied to You asking for some more details.

Regarding your other comments – I have not looked back at my thread and my replies on my Washing Machine problem but I don`t recall `ignoring advice and then going with it in the end` [words to that effect].

From the beginning I was trying to ensure that the `Main PCB` was definitely the cause of the Flashing Lights Fault and find out about obtaining either a New Programmed PCB or a Reconditioned Programmed PCB that I could fit – I accomplished this thanks to the very good advice and communication with Moderator iadom and another Member who mentioned EMW Electronics.

Regards,

Chris

[Author]

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