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Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
Yes you do lose the brushless motor. I think this goes back to my original question about the motor. But it seems the motor is a good one nevertheless and it also appears the original ISE10 was the Maytag. If that was good enough back then then why not now?
Paying it for it upfront means it’s cost you no matter what. Buying a machine and letting it runs it’s course means it may cost you or may not.
If you’re buying a good quality washer anyway, for which all intensive purposes the Maytag looks like, hopefully that increases your chances anyway.
The 10year warranty argument that you guys are applying on this one can actually extend to any machine, including budget machines. I could go out an buy any old rubbish and say thank you very much at least I’m covered for the next 10 years !
I think you are actually arguing the merits of the 10 year warrranty but discounting the fact that we are comparing in essence two very similar ASKO machines.
Actually having a think about it, why don’t you guys just do the ISE10 and sell it with a range of packages instead ? 2 year warranty, 5 year warranty and 10 year warranty ?
That way you would capture all the market you are trying to get to (ISE5) and make a seriously good brand name for yourselves whilst at it. In actual fact that would go much, much further towards your mission statement than what you currently have lined up ? ISE = Quality.
I think the bulk of the market is probably at around £300-£500 waiting for a seriously good reliable machine. I don’t think the Beko ISE5 is it or the way to go. I think Maytag have the machine at the right price, but it doesn’t fit their UK business model. You guys can fit that model, yours for the taking and you’ve already done the hard work with ASKO.
I for one would be happy to buy your ISE10 with a 2 or 5 year package. I would love the ISE10 but I cannot afford/ wish to pay for the 10 year one. There will also be lots out there that will say no to £800 washers, no matter what.
Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
kwatt wrote:But the badge on the front doesn’t tell you that, it’s what’s inside that counts and the support behind it.
I understand all that you say and fully appreciate all your comments.
However the machines are the same in this case apart from the badge. They come out the same factory and same original spec. On the inside the Maytag is the original ISE10.
As a customer and not an engineer, it says to me I can have exactly the same machine for £300 less. For £300 more I get the same machine but with the guarantee of support.
If in both cases the machine is designed to last upto 20 years then I hope not to be calling on repairs all too often in the next 10 years. Hopefully not at all. The Maytag is guaranteed for 2years and if I buy on my CC I get it topped upto 3years. So I’m covered for 3 years, in which case I would not expect a washer of this quality to go wrong all too often.
I think the fact if I was ‘extremely’ unfortunate and that I had to buy the Maytag twice in the next 10 years it would cost me £1k. Only £200 more than the ISE but then I would double my chances of getting a 10-20 year lasting machine.
There’s a compelling economic argument.
Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
So now we have two ASKO machines and one is better than the other. You are also saying that Bosch is what you guys have yourselves.
It sounds like what you are actually saying is “as long as it’s your money go and buy an ISE10, the Maytag is an ASKO machine but stay clear, but we’re actually happy with a Bosch ourselves”
All of this makes for a pretty weird argument really. I doubt it would twist anyone’s arm in any direction other than the madhouse !
helo_75 wrote:theres no financial crisis in the world, the media are scaremongering
Guys, you must be living in another world ???
Unfortunately we are not all engineers who think just get the very best engineered product out there and forget about the cost.
As I say, if I had £800 to spend on a washer I would do. But I don’t and have to buy the next best sensible thing.
What is now confusing me is that in one minute you guys says that ASKO make some of the best machines and then you say if it’s not an ISE it’s not as good. Maytag also say that the machine is designed to go 15-20 years and as a company they’ve got a pretty good reputation for quality & reliability.
The Maytag model I’m looking at seems the same as a batch of the original ISE10’s was it not ? The difference to the current model seems to be the motor and spin speed/programmes. Have those machines ever given any trouble ???
Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
Whether it’s an ISE10 or a Maytag it’s an ASKO machine. I would hope that if one is reliable and designed to last 20 years then the brand name slapped on it would do little to change that in either case.
I do like the ISE10 but as I said £800 is not on the radar at the moment. There’s a finacial crisis going on in the world and money is not growing on trees !!! It’s approaching twice the price of the Maytag for not twice the machine.
Even if I had to buy twice in the next 10 years I would hope an ASKO machine serves me well. Of course I don’t plan to buy twice…..
Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
Yes, I do value those qualities but £800 for a washing machine in today’s world is an awful lot of money.
I’d love to go for the ISE10 but it’s out of my budget. The Maytag is about the most I really wish to pay for a quality washer.
Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
OK, I’m tempted now to go for the Maytag MAF9501AEW in that case.
It’s generally available at around £500. Is this a good buy ?
Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
I guess that there brush motors are still very good quality though ?
Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
Had a look on the JL website and they have a Maytag which looks exactly like the ISE 10 (in SS) but the spec is 1400AAB.
http://www.johnlewis.com/230402225/Product.aspx
Does that indicate that their machine is similar to the 1st batch of ISE10’s then ?
Apart from quietness is an induction motor more reliable than a brush one ?
Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
Was there a difference in reliability between the two motors ?
The maytags still currently do the 1400 variant which I take it is the old ISE10 ?
Re: Is the ISE 2 any good ?
I think I’ve already said that washing machines are basically simplistic mechanical things. They always will be and the constituents of a washing machine are by and large the same as they always were. Motor, pump, drum and module.
It’s not difficult for manufacturers to find out over time what goes wrong with those major parts and where. It’s then not difficult to improve on those faults. In fact they know all of this already.
I’m also willing to accept the compromise on offer nowadays as long as I know what the product is that I am buying. That is surprisingly quite a challenge…..
Miele/ASKO have stayed on one path. The others have gone down another. Each of them then prices their product accordingly to monopolise segments of the market.
The point I’m making is every other manufactured product has progressed, either by improving production techniques, quality, spec and features. It doesn’t make a difference if 15years ago the production line was employees/people fitting the parts and today there are robots doing it. It’s not the fitting, it’s the component itself.
Washing machines manufacturers in the main have chosen to regress in order to sustain the industry. It is apples with apples, unfortunately they’re the ones trying to throw oranges and pears in. It’s quite obvious that they realised that they were building far too good machines 10 years ago that would end up shooting themselves in the foot.
Re: AEG Lavamat 6100 fault
Well I don’t think it’s fair to name the firm but it is one off here “find an engineer”, no not London.
If that’s the going rate I certainly don’t resent paying the money. After all I’ve never had an engineer out on this machine since I bought it so not sure of what the rates were. However, at £80 just to come out ( and he’s local) I simply don’t think it’s economical to do so on this machine. He didn’t twig or anything like that, it was actually quite a civil conversation, that’s his rate.
However I did find it quite ironic that the same engineer recommended an ISE machine because it was economical to repair in the long run. That is a complete joke of an argument if these are the call-out and labour rates involved. 2 years down the line they’ll be higher as well.
Anyhow the AEG is destined to go now, but I’m quite happy to have some fun on it as a pet project before it goes. I don’t resent anything or anyone or if the fault is 15p capacitor or resistor. Of course skilled engineers are paid for their knowledge and I would be happy to do so if economical.
Anyhow, I’ll take out the module again and take it to the TV repair guy to have a look at the board at some point.
Re: Is the ISE 2 any good ?
No, I think my points are quite sound and quite valid.
ISE don’t make the machine, they simply specify it from a manufacturer. Just like all the others do right now. Nothing wrong with that by me as long as the product is good and reliable. I’m trying to work out what is right for me in today’s minefield of a market place that’s all.
ISE10 = ASKO machine. I like it but it’s a bit dear, that’s all.
I realise the ISE2 is not built as well, just wanted to know if it’s a decent enough machine to see out 3-5 years. In my mind an appliance like a washing machine of today should at least see out that time frame in trouble free fashion.
It is however probably no different to going out and buying a Bosch machine and insuring it for 5 years. An insurance company will pretty much insure anything at the right price, even a Beko or Haier. AXA are not exclusive in that regard. Point is it’s not the warrantythat makes the machine what it is. The machine is the machine. Once it leaves ASKO it’s yours, your engineer and AXA’s problem after that.
Both local engineers have turned round and said go for an ISE10 although Tim Downing is the one listed as the official ISE representative on the website for my area. He was by far the better in his explanation compared to the other guy and quite probably the guy I will go with. I thought he was quite sensible to talk to.
Re: AEG Lavamat 6100 fault
Yes, the find an engineer was charging £78 just for the call out and minimum £100 for any of those parts !
Took me two days to get through to him and they didn’t even bother to return my messages either.
Complete waste of money going down that route for that price, I’m not stupid paying rip off prices for that kind of service…..
I personally think it’s the module and the motor controller on it that’s gone. 12 years old could be some leaky capacitors that have had it ? All looked ok though but I reckon that’s where the fault is somewhere….
Re: Is the ISE 2 any good ?
The point is if you strip out the 10year AXA warranty how much would the ISE10 be ? There’d be uproar in the market if they started selling a machine that other manufacturers know can last 10-15 year for £400.
The machine is the machine. In actual fact it probably costs far less to make now than it would have done 15 years ago.
The same applies to all machines as you go down the scale. They are cheaper to make now than they have ever been. But and here’s the big but, the manufacturers do not want the mass of machines to be reliable. It puts the whole industry out of business.
When I bought my AEG it said ‘Made in Germany’ it was and is probably the reason why it lasted so long. They knew how to build a machine and build it right. 10 years later they would know how to build it even better.
However 10 years later and manufacturers try to convince us that motors have now become more unreliable, pumps are more prone to failure, a drum is now more dodgy than it’s ever been and a pcb is an incredibly complex bit of kit to put right when everything in mass produced elctronics is becoming two a penny. I’ll leave that for the more gullible….everything else has gone the other way.
They more likely realised, oh oh we’re making far too good machines and we won’t be seeing these customers again until at least 7-10 years. Bad business model let’s change it. So, the reaction to that has been to help keep the industry in business, make it cheaper quality so that it breaks down more often.
If ASKO can design a machine to last for 20 years, then all the other manufacturers gain the same experience over time with their own machines. It’s called progression and technology.
It’s all a con to get the same amount of money out of the customer. They all know exactly what they are doing.
ISE don’t charge mark up on the parts. The engineer still charges call out and he’ll still charge for his labour. So, it’s a nice sentiment but the end result will still have you thinking about a new machine. If an ISE2 needed a new motor after 2 years, the call out would be £100 by then, the labour probably £50-75 and the motor £80…..the machine only costs £270 brand new !
Don’t get me wrong I like ISE and it’s the brand I’m being forced to buy. What I am being told is to actually buy an ‘ASKO’ machine dressed up as something else. So, you see ISE are no different to the rest….it’s a nice philosophy but it’s flawed.
