[jjames]

Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?

Is it not just the case though that with cheap items, it’s a lottery what you get rather than the cheapo products being crap per se?

Toasters being a case in point: At exactly the same time (10 years ago almost to the day) I bought two Micromark 4-slice stainless steel toasters, for about £9 each. One for me, one for my bro who had just moved into a flat.

My brother’s died after about 18 months. Not great. Mine on the other hand is still going strong, does a good job of toasting bread, and only now might be being replaced due to some rust inexplicably appearing on the outside casing (rust on stainless? hmmm). What worries me is the possibility of rust landing on the bread, so it’ll probably be on it’s way to the recyclers at some stage.

Micromark are junk, right?

[jjames]

Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?

Exactly, at 3000 washes that’s over 16 years for us! The AEG Lavamat 6100 lasted 10+ on the first bearings (5 years ago).

The more I read up on this subject, and see the problems people have had, the more I realise that that LG machine wasn’t such a bad old stick after all.

It *did* last the equivalent of 10 years of “typical” use, without so much as a peep of trouble coming from it, and then some. You really can’t complain at that. Not at £470 for a washer-dryer.

Especially, as seems to be the case, if some machines aren’t even making it to two years of relatively light use.

We aren’t using the machine nearly so much now, so it remains to be seen whether the shiny new Miele sitting in the kitchen makes it to ten years without issue 🙂 Seeing as that is the benchmark the “inferior” machine managed.

Some of these horror stories though really are pathetic. It reminds me of the guy at work who bought a brand-new Renault Laguna a few years back, only to have to take it back to the dealer on over 20 occasions over the three years he had it with some pretty major faults (EGR valves, gearbox synchro failure, juddering clutch, electrical failures and finally a diesel turbo failure on the motorway at which point he got totally sick of the car and sold it). Amazing just how bad some products can be — that car was a running joke in the office.

I’d have been looking to get shot after the second failure quite honestly. Ironically the back-breaking straw (that turbo) I don’t think was the fault of the car — he always filled it up with crappy Tesco fuel and would sit in 5th gear at 30mph. Always fatal 👿

[jjames]

Re: Zanussi ZWF1431W bearing replacement?

What gets me is, how does a bearing fail in the first place?

I had an LG machine which, despite failing prematurely, managed an estimated 3000+ wash cycles before the motor gave out (since advised this is just a sensor that fails, but that the motor stator needs replacing as a result — another piece of built-in obsolescence unfortunately — interesting that that was my initial inexpert diagnosis!!!).

Point being that this machine’s bearings lasted 3000 cycles without fault. Surely if they are encased within the drum, they should in theory last if anything longer?

Even if the whole drum does need to come out, this should surely only happen once or twice in a machine’s lifetime? Since the gods of quality Miele only specify the entire machine to 5000 wash cycles, this bears out these back-of-a-fag-packet calculations.

It is disgraceful that such a simple thing as a bearing should fail in a year. If car manufacturers can make a wheel bearing (a fundamentally similar device, and one that gets a heck of a sight more of a pounding than a mere appliance!) last 100,000 miles and only charge £40 for a replacement, there is something seriously lacking here. It can’t just be the cost of the bearing — this is either designer incompetence or deliberate manipulation of the specs to make a part fail prematurely. The parts are just not that expensive to make.

[jjames]

Re: Old Creda needs replacing

May be worth having a look at this one: 220214553080

Stranger things have happened than this £400 AEG machine going for £250. Bargain city.

Also have a look here:

http://www.which.co.uk/files/applicatio … 127898.pdf

Although Beko’s dishwashers and washing machines/dryers are not listed, have a look at the fridges and cookers — this gives an idea of Beko’s general engineering competence.

And they are right up there at the top of the tree. This lends weight to my opinion that the anti-Beko sentiment expressed by many is based on pure prejudice. That, coupled with the cheap parts and cheap selling prices … seems to me they are the Hyundai of the appliance world.

[jjames]

Re: Old Creda needs replacing

Hi, if you have access to a van, there is a place in Halifax who sells a lot of washers with dents on the side etc, on ebay.

I haven’t used this company, however the units are advertised as still coming with full manufacturer’s warranty (and I have no reason to doubt this — I’ve bought a “damaged” item in the past and the manufacturer didn’t seem to mind when I queried the situation on the phone).

So a £350-400 Bosch etc will be available for the price you are talking about — if you are prepared to do a little legwork.

These units are rejected by customers on delivery — this is what happened with the fridge I bought. It was a £170 unit in 1996, it had quite a big dent on the right hand side, the installer asked if I wanted to reject or have money off. They offered 20 quid, I said 50, finally settled on £30. I didn’t care, you can’t see the dent when it’s installed. Fridge still with us 12 years later.

As for Beko, I’d go with your instinct quite honestly. Like you I’ve never had a peep of trouble out of their products when I’ve had them, the parts are cheap and from what I can make out the designs are quite old so a lot of what had been mentioned about certain Eurocrap brands doesn’t apply here.

If I was buying sub-£200 I’d buy Beko every time quite honestly. Only the mugs pay £190 for a £160 Indes*it with a different badge on it.

That ISE is based on a Beko unit. ISE clearly don’t have a problem with them!

[jjames]

Re: Gorenje again…..

Thankyou very much.

I will have a word with Mr Whitehead today. Northallerton is a bit distant, but not massively so.

Thanks for your help 🙂

[jjames]

Re: Gorenje again…..

iadom wrote:Sorry, it does not work like that. To comply with our gaurantee and our insurers AXA, all ISE machines have to be ‘correctly’ installed by one of our agents.

Only mentioned it to keep the price down.

The budget was £200 — I can probably squeeze £250 but no more out of my bro.

[jjames]

Re: Gorenje again…..

Failing that I’ve just had a “bwah-hah-hah-hah” moment: Beko £160 special plus 5-year warranty from these chaps:

http://www.warrantyex.co.uk/domestic-ap … rance.html

(Underwritten by Domestic & General).

Let them deal with the fallout when the unit explodes in a fireball lol.

Total cost £255, and a back-up plan in case the ISE2 is a no-go.

[jjames]

Re: Gorenje again…..

Really? Hmmm, interesting, very interesting.

The Postcode is DL5 7LQ.

If you can point me in the direction of an ISE2 for £250 (I’ll stick it in the back of the car and fit it myself if needs be), I’ll most probably take one!

[jjames]

Re: Gorenje again…..

Hold on a sec — isn’t the ISE2 £300?

And the ISE10 some astronomical figure like £800 or something?

£300 for the cheaper unit ain’t gonna happen — neither is £800 for mine frankly — and the ISE5 is made in Turkey and for reasons I’ve already mentioned I’m not willing to take a punt with 500 quid — I don’t trust Turkish appliances with good money no matter how well recommended they are. The ‘2 yes, since it’s £300 (and I’d consider the ’10 were it in my price range) — but I’m sure that the Miele is a better unit than the ISE2 anyway.

This all said — I was doing some fag-packet calculations re the LG — and it turns out that if I had had a Miele during the time I had the LG, I’d have needed around 4500 wash cycles — pretty much the length of time these units are specified to run for. So the LG did not do badly to be 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} reliable through that timescale.

Would I have another LG? Not sure. The service I’ve had from this one is borderline good IMO.

I do not have an ISE sales agent within 100 miles of my home — and in any case the 5 is the only machine that falls into the price ranges I have specified, and yet this is the only one you guys haven’t mentioned 😆

Bear in mind that I am a tight Northern git who won’t spend more than he has to on anything!!

Can someone at least punch a hole in my “Beko vs the world” scenario — experience suggests that Beko machines are no better or worse than any other budget make, and the spares are reasonable. I’ve done a couple of silly fixes on them as well (spring, carbons) and wasn’t swearing and shearing my knuckles, so they seem OK to work on from my POV as well!

[jjames]

Re: Have I been taken for a ride here?

Hmmm, yes I’d forgotten about that.

What is the chance that a failed bearing would trigger an overload message?

As for ISE, I dunno, I’m just not sure. They just haven’t been around long enough for someone other than this site to be able to recommend them. They might be the best units on the market, but since the nearest authorised dealer to me is over 100 miles away in Scunthorpe, I can’t even go have a look at one. In the meantime the origin of some of the machines doesn’t fill me with confidence, for the simple reason that there don’t seem to be any other manufacturers making their higher-end product in the Turkish factory, so there is no way to be sure that the stuff represents value for money.

So, I am left in the position of spending a quantity of cash with no independent voice of approval and no local service agent.

As for the Koreans — I’ve been deeply impressed with the basic engineering of a number of CE products I’ve bought from Korean companies. I’ve worked with Samsung microwave engineers (I designed a test-rig for magnetrons several years ago) who flew over from Korea, and they came across to me as very knowledgable and skilled personnel (similarly the Sanyo engineers were also very good). I’ve also owned a couple of Korean cars and never had cause for complaint — very strong engines, even if they were superficially tinny and plasticky.

[jjames]

Re: Have I been taken for a ride here?

Hmmm.

Y’see, if Bosch/Siemens are deteriorating (as they seem to be from what people are saying, what with stuff being farmed out to Spanish subsidiaries etc); the Koreans (who should know better) are spoiling basically good product with poor support; the Turks and Italians keep producing carp; and even Miele are falling back, where does this leave us?

Seems as if the only options really are:

1) Spend north of £500, and preferably a lot more.

2) Spend £180 on a Tricity-Bendix and keep fingers crossed….

Suddenly that £200 to get the LG fixed doesn’t seem so bad any more.

[jjames]

Re: Have I been taken for a ride here?

If I were to spend £400, I’d go the extra £50 and get a Miele in any case; they come with 5-year warranties from a lot of places and from the sterling service we’ve had out of a couple of other Miele devices I’d agree with the consensus that they seem to be the best around.

Given that you can get Zanussis for around the £200 mark online, I’d suggest that they’re marking up the cost of the unit and underselling the warranty TBH.

I don’t mind spending £200 to get something repaired, but not from someone who engages in such questionable practices. I’m going to see what LG themselves have to say on Monday — do you know if their fees are flat at all?

£100+ for a motor in itself doesn’t seem excessive to me given the complexity of the direct drive system against the belt machines, but if the PCBs are weak as well I’m not so sure I want to go down that road.

Serves me right for assuming that, because their CE and cars are so good, so would Korean appliances be I guess 😆

The whole thing is an irritating experience — we went into the shop 5 years ago with the idea of buying German, and came out with the Blackpool Illuminations model. Dipstick 😳

[jjames]

Re: ISE / Beko — what makes one better than the other?

kwatt wrote:And you are an expert in all of this how?

I never said I was an expert. I was querying what made the (base-spec) ISE any better than any other cheap unit on the market. From what I can gather ISE’s strategy seems to be one of good after-sales rather than anything else.

If this LG unit I have is toast, I had been considering buying the ISE, and this post was intended to test the water. Your defensive tone has caused me to rethink that position. All I was after was something along the lines of “our engineers have spent some time carefully selecting the most compatible and highest quality components available, have identified the weak areas in the existing design, and have worked with Beko to resolve these issues before marketing the final product”. Your comments have disappointed me.

Washing machines are primarily mechanical devices with moving mechanical parts, most unlike the field in which you are involved, and fitting inferior components or using inferior, cut down or poorly designed materials will lead to an early demise through wear and tear, fact and end of story.

So with that being the case, any monkey can piece together the best parts and therefore produce the best product, right? No way. Yes, pricing down component quality has a negative effect, but that does not necessarily mean that pricing up will have a similarly positive effect. There always comes a point where specification gives way to design. These are basic engineering principles, and I refuse to believe that mechanical devices are any different in principle. You don’t need to be in the field to realise that.

Most electronic devices have little or no moving parts. A totally different methodology applies.

Depends on the product. We would not compromise on component quality, but most of the issues I encountered with our designs (including the failure of mechanical parts under the control of electronics) ended up being caused by poor electronic design rather than component failure — in fact it’s often the software that is at fault. If we’d upgraded the mechanical components, they would often still have failed in the same way.

As for your speculation about Japanese washing machines, just go and use one, I have and they ain’t as good as you would like to think that they are I can assure you.

I lived in Japan for six months, and used a Mitsubishi in that time. Technologically light-years ahead of the stuff we get here — quiet, fast, huge loads and expensive (about £1200 I believe). I can’t say how well designed they are internally, but suffice to say that when I mentioned
the European CE/whitegood makes in general I got a few raised eyebrows — they treat most of them with suspicion and consider them unreliable.

[jjames]

Re: LG WD12336AD fault

Ouch!

Thanks for the replies.

Let’s hope it isn’t as drastic as this — sounds like a very bad design r600a if that turns out to be the case, someone at LG trying to be a little too clever for their own good when calculating tolerances.

Here’s hoping that the sensor was able to flag the problem before the motor assembly ate itself! 😆

[Author]

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