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Re: fitted new door seal to beko washing machine
Go check. Wouldn’t be the 1st customer to notice the door seals drain hole and assume it’s the cause, then get overdramatic in the hope your insurance will pay for a nice new floor.
Re: True or false?
You do seem to have history and that does come across as your main motivation to dismiss what l’m advocating whilst missing the fact that l support improving the industry. It’s a fact of life that evolution does not favour all involved.
If l had written 12 months ago that Corbyn would be labour leader and Volkswagen would be in there current situation many would have laughed.
Sometimes shit happens.
Re: True or false?
kwatt wrote:See, here’s the thing lee8, you don’t know everything and history can teach much.
It can indeed, sometimes. The trick is to not allow history to influence how you react.
When I started in this trade or, not long after, Hotpoint and Hoover started to have machines selling through retailers for less than £300 retail. The old boys, well, they said that was it, they trade was done for and nothing could save it.
Then there was the whole buying up thing in the nineties. Same deal, it’s all done for, the apocalypse has arrived.
Then much the same now.
The difference now is that I actually think that, unless there’s a significant change, it’s not just the small retailers or repairers that may well become extinct but large retailers as well as some if not most large service operations.
The industry is not dieing, it’s evolving. Part of that evolution is the reduction in small repair businesses.
In my opinion not having our profession recognised, promoted, regulated whatever you want to call it, but being the one job everybody’s neighbour could do has helped to contribute.
The UK was and to some extent still is unique in this, other countries retained employed technicians. That prevented insurance companies flooding the market.
People retained there machines, had reliable repairs. There was no appetite for extended warranties. No access to spare as there sold by the brands. Prices remain higher. The independent’s work closely with the brands, but not in the numbers we see here in the UK.
That still to this day prevents cheap Chinese appliances taking hold.
All that said, there’s this thing called evolution, you might have come across the term. Small business is so, so much better at that than large ones ever have been and, ever will be.
This is the problem l see you as missing, completely. You believe in evolution yet you dismiss it happening in our industry. I don’t share your view point. Large businesses can react to market forces far quicker than you state. What influences that reaction is no different to any business, no matter what it’s size. It’s people, power and money.
People change, thinking evolves.
My money’s still on the little guys. History teaches me that’s a good bet.
Again we will disagree, since history has never stood still.
I don’t have Wash Vac calling in to the shop every Monday. Electrue on a Wednesday, Pik a pac on a Friday. No Tandy conference in September. The 3 trade counters are gone, the 5 other businesses in my area gone.
A representative of the company that you work for or, on behalf of, sat in my office some years back and told me that after I did something that they didn’t like that I’d never work in this industry again, they’d see to it.
Your Barking up the wrong tree. I mention Knowhow as there one of the companies l work with, not for or on behalf of.
I don’t respond to threats well, or idiots. Well over a decade later, still here. Still a pain the a$$ to them whenever the opportunity arises because some scorched bridges aren’t so easy to mend.
Well no your Scottish. The opinion l support is not coming from the place you think it does.
They got it the wrong way round though, I’ve never worked for them again, through choice. Don’t need them, don’t want to work for a company or people that operate that way. I have standards and I can’t be doing with selling my soul to a bunch of ratbags in suits.
Don’t blame you. I don’t work for DSG
Not long before that a whole bunch of agents for a couple of large manufacturers got royally shafted. Guess what, many of them are still about, still trading and many are even still bitter.
Not long after I had the chat above, your employer in another guise shafted a whole rake of repairers. They’re still bitter over that and haven’t forgiven.
I don’t know of course as I’m not qualified to answer such things. All the spods or ratbags in suits with their business degrees and all that, well of course they know better because they’re “qualified” to know better.
So you personally have issues. A good lesson to learn from history is never bring passed pain into the present day. You’ll never successfully move forward otherwise.
Re: True or false?
I’m here because it’s UK whitegoods, is it exclusively for the small business.
I’m not against “small business” in the context of all small business, just you guys. I’m not alone in voicing it’s dieing. Sorry Andy, but since we are debating the white goods industry that should have been obvious.
Some thinkers may find more comments helpful, plan for the future, think about the possibility that change could be coming.
I don’t view you as lesser mortals, it’s the way l write. It’s not intended, I’m generalising a lot.
Andy, Ken l have no problem insulting you directly if that was my point, but it is not.
I’m not trying to Troll and a ban wouldn’t bother me. I’m not here for anything else other than to read how the industry is doing, get some insight and debate issues, that’s it. Don’t care if you believe me, don’t care if l bother you.
Can we now return to the debate, bite your tongue Andy or whatever relaxes you.
I’m also self employed.
Re: True or false?
kwatt wrote:
However, if you can prove that the person carried out this work without the relevant qualification to prove competence if that’s required. Or, if you can prove that the person tasked was not competent. Or, that they carried out work that they were knowing not competent to carry out. Then, you may have a case to make.
You got my point. About time. I have stated, but somehow it got missed that appliance repairers should be as qualified as sparks.
You cannot enter that industry with the “my grandfather taught me all l know” method of competence.
Maybe it’s me.
But l find it truely astonishing that a group of people on here demonstrate professionalism, proud that they do a good job, never leave a machine unsafe etc etc yet dismiss having a qualification.
Maybe their happy in there world, maybe they don’t need training, maybe their in that group of middle aged men that turn up at courses moaning, trying to teach the teacher, just to prove what they perseve as knowledge, but actually becomes a demonstration of their ignorance.
Or maybe it’s an agenda shared on here by the few. Maybe there is nothing wrong with phone a friend for help or write on a forum and it’s just me viewing the questions too harshly.
I have no friends, so l’ve never asked for help.
Only joking l struggle with most repairs.
If you can’t, well there’s not hellish much you can do beyond bump your gums about it being terrible.
Then, we’ve not a single shred of evidence to support your assertions so, insofar as I’m concerned, no proof, no case.
I’m pretty good at it. Made a career of it 😉
I’m pretty sure that most people, including those of the legal profession would likely agree with that conclusion. It’s hard to convict people on some moron wagging the finger making accusations with nothing to back it up.
Of course if you can rally enough villagers with pitchforks we can step back a few centuries.
But in this, you’ve got squat.
That’s true, they rely on the evidence of the qualified as opposed to morons.
Even if you did prove the case and you took action, what would be gained?
Depends on the incident and it’s merits.
I have to say that unless you’ve proof and want to actually grow a set and do something about it other than mouth off anonymously about how terrible it is that some people don’t have qualifications that *YOU* recognise then or *YOU* think they should have, sorry, you’re outta luck. Nobody will care and probably just dismiss you as an agitant, an agent provocateur, maybe just a troll but that’s about the best I can offer.
K.
Why do you keep banging on about me doing it. I’m hardly going to announce it here.
Or is it easy pickings, discredit the poster not the contents.
That tends to be a poor choice of action in a debate, added to a complete lack of actual evidence beyond opinion as to why it does not work, but it does encourage the weaker thinking individuals to post insults, causes the debate to meander off course.
I fully understand that some small businesses would view the approach l support as a negative one.
I’m not really interested in the small businesses, l don’t support them as l see no future in them. The days of your local repairer are dying. Nobody in the industry really wants them. Customers either want technology or cheap. The days of some 50 something guy in a white van moaning about how crap the Chinese make cheap washing machines are not long lasting.
Ducks for cover.
The costs to small businesses would be large. But so does having engineers incapable of the most basic knowledge, guessing there way through faults. I actually fully believe the idea that had the industry stood up for itself, implemented proper training, qualification then smaller businesses would have expanded and have a louder voice.
Just bear in mind that you may believe I’m wrong that does not mean your right, for all your opinions l read not evidence.
Also bear in mind what l support is not my idea or concept. 🙂
Re: True or false?
The point being, for those that missed it, those drivers are not sparks, have no qualification, yet are fitting cookers. Are they responsible for the integrity of the installation, not beyond their competence, no more than a repairer or anybody else connecting a cooker without any qualification.
I have experience of there inability, such as connecting a range cooker to a coiled extension with a 10 amp rating, plugged into a wall socket.
Now had a qualified spark done that the goal posts would have moved, as someone who has a proven level of competence done that there would have been consequences.
The regulations are no different to the law, it’s a set of general guidelines that as it is impossible to cover every circumstance. In court previous cases of similar circumstances are used as a guide to reach a conclusion of liability.
As it stands it’s easier to prove liability on a qualified person missing a danger than an unqualified person who demonstrated a lesser competence, but even now it’s a generalisation.
It’s all about the interpretation.
Re: True or false?
Oh dear someone missed the point.
A qualification is a measure of one’s knowledge, a way to demonstrate that one has been instructed on how something works and has passed a test to provide evidence they understand it.
That goes for employers etc etc.
I met a blonde once who was a slut, does that make all blondes sluts.
I think not.
Re: True or false?
Mounting mole hill, overthinking simplicity a few comments come to mind.
I mean all those 7.5 ton delivery drivers installing all these cookers everyday, it’s a disaster waiting to happen.
Re: True or false?
My answer was simple, as a repairer you are not responsible for the installation as you are not a qualified spark (unless you are a qualified spark) domestic appliance repairers have no qualification.
One simple has to be competent in the task you are carrying out, the repair.
Re: Advice needed
It was back in the days when people understood that your hand will burn when you stick it in a fire. 😉
It was also on a Hotpoint that was notoriously difficult to get the clamp to stay on and didn’t need it due to the depth of the seal and lip.
Good Health & Safety management is understanding what length you measure risk/ hazard and stop before it reaches the ridiculous. 🙂
Re: Advice needed
I did a door seal on a Hotpoint, the outer wire clamp was missing at the time, tenanted property but landlord was present. I replaced seal instructed landlord if issue we’d supply replacement but since its been used without it shouldn’t be an issue, landlord didn’t care paid, all good.
Got called back as now it’s an issue, called with replacement, no landlord present etc etc but since it was only £15.00 charge, fitted it.
2 weeks passed landlord refusing to pay as” it should have been supplied with seal” excuse.
Sent 7 day notice of court action, ignored.
Issued papers to recover £15.00, ignored.
Went to court, told judge the whole sorry saga. The landlord was an arsehole to the judge and l. Luckily I’m familiar both with arseholes & the courts. I wasn’t too surprised he lost, thanks mainly to his arrogance, he actually paid a cheque there and then, crumpled it up and threw it at me. That was funny, particularly the response he drew from the judge.
Didn’t take much time, was worth it.
Don’t hesitate with people who take the piss. It’s better not to put your business into that position in the first place.
Re: True or false?
The NICEIC inspector is talking out of his arse.
Simple really.
The rules/regs concerning legal responsibility for the integrity of the cooker or hob wiring back to the consumer unit/ installation differs for a repairer/electrician/installer.
Again it goes back to qualifications.
Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
philfish wrote:Got to say it, with the handy work of seen of knowhow engineers and delivery drivers if that’s the industry standard and qualification level they are after, then count me in! I’m up for that!! I like a good laugh. I should be able to sit that exam while I boil the kettle for my coffee! Beats doing the crossword I suppose.
I’m not using Knowhow as an example of how it should be. Completely the opposite and I’ve been openly critical of them and the “engineers”.
I actually believe in having a trade qualification to show at least a bit of knowledge, for safety if nothing else, what good it will do at this stage I don’t know because I do believe it’s the low cost of the appliances which is strangling the industry, and customers attitude which seems to be a never ending battle.
I’ve just posted on a new thread concerning the testing of hard wired cookers etc. Sarcasticly mentioned qualifications and education.
For all the examples of how bad the people at Knowhow etc are, there are just as many examples of poor standards, quality etc etc.
Afterall since there is no standard of training within the industry, independents are no different and not all are competent. The level of competence varies hugely.
