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Re: Bernstein!
trubbish wrote:makes my weekend to see you all getting shafted
Cheeky Git!
Anyway there is a distinct difference. We are talking of a company here that has, or is in the process of going down. Not in the process of purposely undermining other business and whom are supposed to be working partners and colleagues. In the case of any company failure, there are casualties and that is a part of the nature of what we do, this year we have seen more than the norm, but we can take it.
Not many companies on here are being taken by the demise of Bernstein, and some of the figures are relatively small. We will just dust ourselves off, stand up proudly & bloody well get on with it. At least we know where we stand.
However, there are some people who daily live in fear of the way they are being treated by one work provider in particular.
By the way, your name is appropriate.
Remember, “those that victimise, may well become victims themselves.”
Re: GB DAR
Martin wrote:GREAT BRITAIN DOMESTIC APPLIANCE REPAIRS LIMITED
What a super grand title for an outfit that couldn’t organise a ‘P up in a B’ yet is still held in high regard by Servis U.K. Ltd.
Martin
Still held in high regard by Servis? not really the case. It is just there are too many connections between the 2.
I will mention the fact there is a common denomiator which can be traced through the directors list at companies house.
We all know who it is.
Re: Electrue/NESN
Here lies a Victim of NESN.
——————————————————————————–
“having just been financially shafted by a company that a lot of you appear to have also had problems with we are now in danger of going out of business, we operate in the bn,rh,tn areas. We are nice people to work with but need help.
If anyone knows of companies requiring engineers please let us know, we do not want to start the new year on the scrap heapâ€.————————————————————————————
The above quote can be found in the Work & Vacancies string.
It appears an agent that rather relies on the contract has been terminated, or absorbed by having work taken away from them. I was anticipating this, but I was hoping it would not happen. Are they, N.E.S.N. (aka Smelly old Town Politburo) on a crusade I wonder.
This may be a repeat of what some other work providers and manufacturers have done in the past, pull the rug out and leave you high & dry. Two large Italian manufacturers with U.K. interests have done just that. They used agents where it was cost effective to them, paid the bare minimum and when they took over a British platform, gave their agents notice. We all know who they are; the one good thing was they did settle their accounts.
No doubt this ex N.E.S.N. agent has been careful and kept a clean nose, but that holds little water these days. I suspect there was a staffing level that reflected the volume of work, and now the payroll charges are seemingly too high. This is the only thing that keeps some of these poor agents remaining faithful. Yes I mean too busy running around in circles, keeping up with the demands and failing to see the big picture. One quality call can replace 2 rubbish calls easily, and earn the same money. In addition one can pick & choose without the high demands of the DSG contract, i.e. no compressors, Zanussi D/Washers and W/Mach. configuration codes.
This will give the agent time to re-assess the business and put things into place in order to run it properly and come out of it with honours. To anybody who is considering moving away from such a work provider or has been forced out, have a word with an accountant, who will advise accordingly or even refer you to a business adviser; you will be pleasantly surprised at what you will learn. Yes the shock is there, and no doubt you will be owed money. However, hang on in there and give it a little time, you may be surprised at the outcome. The main downside will be the monies owed, and there will be serious delays on that. Expect rejections to increase as well as “inspections†and various reasons to delay payment. They will try and extract the last drop of blood.
It is very difficult to terminate with this particular work provider. Unless you have the guts to make that decision, if they terminate you, then they have saved you the trouble. Had you finished with them: you would have been in a very poor situation as they would throw their terms and conditions at you; supported by a solicitors letter, reminding you that you are not allowed to seek other work. In other words, they will watch you starve.
What has happened to you is likely to kick in one day for some other companies of a similar integrity as yourself. I’ve said this many times, some of these work providers are driven by high demands, in this case the DSG criteria. Regretfully as long as they are dealing with this contract, they are being dragged down to the same level. They, the work providers have become very aggressive of late and this has been allowed to filter down to ground level. They are making more enemies than friends. Something else, despite us as a group suggesting they submit a defence and stand up for themselves, they have never taken that option. In other words, they either don’t have a case, or think they are too powerful and have their heads in the sand.
Once upon a time, N.E.S.N. were respected in their field especially in the brown goods sector, where they started. Regretfully they have stooped to a new low in the last 12 months. This has come about due to staff changes near the top and the nature of the beast that feeds them. Until there is a change of leadership, throw out this major contract as unworkable and they start showing some respect, then the situation will deteriorate even lower.
The rest of this industry has been looking at this with some interest of late, and agree that there has been serious injustices going on. Other work providers and insurers have become increasing aware what this company is doing to the industry, and they don’t like it either. There is concern that service agencies will be pulled down, and there will be fewer repairers with the expertise and skills to service the needs.
Happy & Prosperous New Year to one and all.
Rudi
Re: Electrue/NESN
kwatt wrote:
It became a culture of volume, volume, volume instead of quality work within a reasonable framework of rules……………………………….. The same sort of thing happened with Brandt, I worked with them for years and overnight after a staff change at the top they manage to get the hackles of the entire trade up.It’s sad, really sad, to see a network that’s almost at war with its agents and over what, I personally, consider to be no more than poor management of the network but more importantly of the people that have made up a network of loyal agents for many years.
K.
I think what Ken is trying to say is; as well as us becoming pawns at the rough end of the business this has spilt over to the work providers. It is clear that since these providers have taken on this volume work with such a high criteria, the ethos has been pushed down the line to us.
What NESN and or Electrue need to do is stop and take account of what has been happening. It appears thay have failed to see the big picture and are sucked into this morass.
There was a good relationship a few years ago and that has been taken away by the cut throat nature of the work suppliers, in this case DSG.
The best thing they (NESN et-al) could do is the same as GDA, GET RID OF IT. Yes I mean throw out the DSG C/Plan before is absorbs you completely. IT WILL HAPPEN. Throw it back at DSG and tell them it is unworkable. Just get them to look on this site, or even speak to people and perhaps they will regonise the damage that is being caused and the errosion of this trade as a whole. Look at what has happened in the last 12 months, youv’e lost agents, money, credibility and you will lose a lot more if you don’t stop the rot. Do DSG care, of course not, this is down to money & nothing else. “Those that victimise, may well become victims themselves”.
The 1st move should be NESN & Electrue setting up a dialogue with agents to find out what is really happening out there and to work on a structure to rekindle the old relationship. There also needs to be a staff change at the top of NESN. No I’m not naming names but they would save £50k + £10k expenses plus the car.
So come on NESN, how about talking to us instead of at us, perhaps we can work toether, we are willing to give it a shot. If a senior representaive from Electrue is aware of this, then I think he needs to do the same. Don’t let it ruin your businesses like it has ruined others and nearly ruined your agents.
The ball is in your court.
Rudi.
Re: Hubs and Spokes
Looks like they may have been watching all these make over and DIY programmes on Discovery Home and Liesure.
They may be using their resources on a loft conversion instead.
Watch this space.
Whoever said about Mystic Meg in another thread, thankyou I’m flattered.
Re: Electrue/NESN
There is a lot going on at the moment. So much I have to provide the goodies in episodes, or instalments.
The biggest bone of contention at present, and affects agents of Smelly old Town, is this inspection malarkey they have come up with.
For the fortunate and uninitiated among you, this is what they are up to. They arrange an inspection of some your previous work and then bill you for the privilege. When I say bill, what I mean is they hold back some of your money.
Now get this, they charge £40. That is more than they pay you. Therefore you are deemed to be worth less than whosever they are using to monitor you.
This begs a few of questions.
1) Who are they using to carry out these inspections?
2) Where is the documentary evidence that this has been done?
3) Where are the findings?
4) Have they got C.O.R.G.I. involved where this relates to gas,if so where are their results, and why no contact from C.O.R.G.I.?5) Why does it cost agents more to have this inspection than we are worth to carry out the work in the 1st instance? And we actually got our hands dirty.
6) What are they on? Do they think we are stupid enough to allow this to go on?
7) Why haven’t we had any phone calls from customers querying these events, or any feedback from engineers, colleagues or retailers? Word does get around.
8 ) Are we to anticipate retribution beyond this financial penalty if they deem something is not to their standards?
9) Are we to expect praise or reward if we have performed better than our work providers anticipated or expected?
10) Do we have any means of dispute on individual cases or even appeal?I’m sure there will be very little in the way of a positive response to any of that.
We are being tried and sentenced without a jury, no means of submitting a defence or anything. This is a kangaroo court.
Here is another interesting thing. I’m sorry if this sounds a bit cryptic, but those in the know will work this one out.
There is relocation on the cards. Shall I say that when someone is ostracised they are sent to Coventry. More on this little beauty to follow.
Rudi
Re: Electrue/NESN
Oh there is more, I’m sitting on a beauty right now, but waiting till the time is right.
Christmas is coming.
Re: Electrue/NESN
All the above sentiments I am in total agreement with.
I’m sure my fellow colleagues in this industry would know better than take this on.
What concerns me are the poor souls out there who are not aware of this forum and may get sucked into this tangled web.
We need to get the message across, or the trade as a whole will die on the vine. It is our industry, without us these clowns will never make it. Please don’t let it happen.
Re: Electrue/NESN
kwatt wrote:If some kind soul would care to forward a copy of this document I’ll cast my beady eye over it, but from what I’ve been told/heard on the grapevine of some of the terms I wouldn’t touch it at £60 a call let alone £35! 🙄
K.Keep your eye open I will forward a copy by Fax.
Re: NESN & Rejections
For now, pop into Rumour Mill Electrue/NESN page 7 right down at the bottom.
That sums up things a lot
Re: Electrue/NESN
kwatt wrote:
I have got the bones of a discussion running in the NESN web forum which, to me, sounds like pure propoganda. The gist of it is (my interpretation of it at least) that NESN or some members/directors or whomever seem to think that they are the saviour of this industry! 😆
If NESN members think they are safe, think again and remember you’re in a contract that, should NESN decide to enforce the clause, you cannot work for a “competing” network or an ex-client for some time. Think about that. 😕Apart from that open warfare between the two companies in the heading of this thread seems inevitable. K
The above I assume relates to a hint I dropped the other day, where I was aware of an issue but thought it prudent to keep a lid on it for now. It is becoming public knowledge now that the main service providers in Birmingham are to go their own way in some chosen geographical areas, leaving the dedicated work providers in Stoke out of the picture. Naturally those in Stoke are doing their best to keep some control, but are losing the plot. I did say, “Those that victimise, may become victims themselves”.
I’ve been looking in a lot recently, mainly see if there has been any developments regard an acrimonious split between the spare parts provider and work provider in the Midlands. The split is there and is widening by the day.
Last week it came to my attention that there is a contract on offer to service providers who would rather work direct and cut out the middleman from the Potteries. I have read this contract and it is an insult to the trade. It is draconian to say the least, full of terms and conditions that would finish a lot of companies and will raise stress levels beyond belief. It must be said though that this was no doubt drafted by DSG themselves; the work providers have the unenviable task of operating it within the DSG terms. I won’t dwell on the contract for now, but the money on offer is an insult being £6 less than Mastercare paid in 1998 for what was an easier product to repair. (Mainly Philco). It is now down to those who are thinking about taking on or continuing the work and it is they who have to consider it.
The root cause of this, as I’ve mentioned above is the picture as a whole. The unrealistic ideology that is expected of us was bred in Hemel Hempstead. There are penalties to be imposed if we fail to keep up, added to that the risk of losing postcodes, or even gaining more postcodes that may be non-viable. You the service company will have no say in this. Some companies in the past thought they could take it on and have been stung. In a way I feel sorry for those who has been landed with managing this operation, pity they didn’t look into history. I needn’t remind them about G.D.A. etc.
I would have thought alarm bells would have sounded when the last time it was up for tender, Service Force pulled out of the talks. It wasn’t only the sums that put them off the terms and conditions had an influence. Now if you think about it, who is better placed than to repair the product, but the manufacturer’s agent? They have grown up with the appliance, seen all changes and bulletins in year 1. On top of that they would have had the training, carry relevant stock and have full access to all technical information. In order to keep costs down, they manufacture or market all the spares and can supply to their engineer cheaper than anyone else if they so desire. Despite all that, they (Service Force) chose not to be in the market for DSG Coverplan work. It appears they made a very wise decision indeed.
If Service Force can see it is untenable, how does anyone else expect it to work?
If anyone of you feel you must take on this contract, I would urge you to consider it very carefully indeed. I appreciate you may have to accept it in order to keep your staff levels, but what would happen if they the work provider, move the boundaries? This is compounded by the fact that you cannot work under a new contract if you are an agent for the company in Stoke. Therefore if you are already in this position, consider the possibility that Birmingham may well use another agent to cover your whole area in any case, then what do you do. Or they may use companies from neighbouring areas and your patch becomes absorbed.
Alternatively you may not fall in the jurisdiction of the company from Stoke and qualify to become an agent for the Birmingham operation. All very well, but you are controlled by penalties which will include removal of postcodes if you don’t keep your nose clean. There is no security in that at all.
What I’m trying to say is, despite your best efforts there is a risk you may lose the work anyway, and then the staffing levels are of concern again. Then of course this is on a contract from DSG which will inevitably expire in any case.
I’m sorry if I’m trying to tell you what you already know, but of course you have to be aware and make your own commercial decisions. If you go for it, I will wish you all the best.
Re: NESN & Rejections
kwatt wrote:
6) Empty promises from someone who previously wouldn’t give you the time of day,
who has now become your “best friend”.Now I wonder to whom you are reffering there? 😉
[[Never a truer statement made and it looks set to get worse in the short term until the dust settles on certain events.
[
since you obviously know of events taking place quote=”(
Sorry if the above looks fragmented. Was in a hurry.
There is a common denominator beteween the last 2 satements. All I will say for now is, there was a meeting in the Midlands last week. The effect of that meeting was scheduled to kick in today, 1st December.
No doubt someone out there will elucidate soon. If not, you can rest assured I will follow this up in the fullness of time
Rudi
Re: NESN & Rejections
This is interesting reading. It looks like you and several others may become the victims of a hidden agenda.
You may be right regards “payment stalling tactics”. A common little ploy where cash-flow is lacking.
Meaning:-
1) Dither about on payments, rejections for the silliest little reason.
2) Put the blame on whom the work is contacted from.
3) Make a payment but not quite up to the end of the month, to appear there is money in the kitty.
4) Request information/updates on jobs that as far as you are concerned have been cleared, and you were expecting settlement.
5) Produce spurious “cut-off “dates.
6) Empty promises from someone who previously wouldn’t give you the time of day,
who has now become your “best friend”.There are doubtless more I could add, but I’m sure you can think of them yourselves.
This topic goes nicely with the string we have been reading in the Work & Vacancies section, regards Profit & Loss. A lot has been written on that subject, and it is plain the see the relationship that exists between these two. One hit calls go a long way as well as the technical information and spares back up. If you are being held up on payments and have to dedicate staff to chase invoices, that is another added cost to an already stretched operation. Worse case scenario, calling in the debt collectors, or raising a summons, all this uses valuable time and resources on a contract that is already trimmed to the bone.
This industry seems to be in turmoil at present.
Service Force may be losing Beko, there is another rumour on the same lines with White Knight. On top of that I’ve heard of a possible estrangement between a parts supplier and work provider regards a large contract. (More on that to follow I think). Then of course the one we keep going on about, where the products are getting cheaper by the day, this gives a knock on effect and we the poor service provider seem to be at the end of the chain. Consider Beko, lower end of the market product, considering going to a cheaper work provider. You get what you pay for and if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
This doesn’t even consider employment laws, care and handling legislation on Refrigeration, C.O.R.G.I. Health and Safety, trade waste……….. the list is endless. Who is the poor sod that has to deal with these matters, yes us, not those in their ivory towers who are too busy pontificating and waving excuses at us for them not settling their debts to us. These people need to get back to the floor and see what we have to put up with on a day to day basis. Work providers may well say; they are only as good as their worst agents. However we could say we are only as good as our best payers or worst work providers. No doubt some of us give a service that’s commensurate with the money & support we get. Of course there are others among us who do our best regardless of the way we are treated, mainly because that is the way we have always operated and it goes against the grain to be any different. We cannot differentiate between customers, nor categorise where an unsuspecting customer has been sold what they think is an insurance that guarantees top class service. How many of us have been told, “It says here you will call today”. A second class work provider doesn’t give us just cause to treat their customers the same, even if we would like to. Some of us are too professional to go down that route. Maybe that may change in the future, as a new generation may have to become more aggressive in this field in order to survive.
There will be some casualties I fear regards all this, regretfully it could well be good service agents, unless we stand up get recognition and perhaps a little respect.
Where will it all end? In tears I suspect.
There is a lot more to be said on this whole affair, and I leave the floor open.
Rudi
Re: Profit & Loss
I’ve been banging on re this one for years.
Before anyone starts thinking “swings & roundabouts”, and then think “things are not that gloomy are they”? Well they are likely to be. If you are being fed via a Work provider, are you going to see ALL the customer contacts and potential jobs, or are they going to be cherry picked? A prime example is Coverplan, this insurance is all embracing including accidental damage and plastic parts. Therefore, if we have a cutlery basket, D/W basket wheels or a fridge flap that you could just deliver, you still get a job out of it. It helps a lot and dilutes the major work such as compressors, D/W recalls and bearing changes.
What I’m driving at is plain & simple: As long as there is someone else in the chain prior to you, who may be in control of filtering, pre-booking or pre-diagnosing calls, there is a risk you won’t get to see that part of the business. We all know we need that side of it to offset any potential losses.
All this is just the start, the likelihood of things getting worse is very high indeed unless we can contain it. What we will need are Work Providers that work with us, listen and comprehend our needs, not demands, that will get us nowhere. A like to think my staff work with me and not for me, I hope they think the same. We can all work together for ourselves and the future of the industry, and ultimately our business. If we can have happy customers, staff, work providers and make a living as well out of all this, then we have achieved something monumental.
Food for thought. I have a feeling there will be a lot more said on this soon.
I’m a bit behind with my mail at present but something is going on out there and I will try and elucidate further as soon as possible.
Keep up to date everybody, and please tell All your colleagues regards this medium, get them to register. They will be the ones to gain from it as well. The people who have a lot to say on here do it not for their own benefit but for the common future, and because we bloody well care. Be part of it.
Rudi
Re: Electrue/NESN
kwatt wrote:Let’s look at a hypothetical set of rates:
Call fee: £35
Spares: No mark up
1st Time Hit Rate: 65{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}
Taking it on say, 20 calls a week just for an example:
Food for thought.
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
K.I’ve seen something regards rates in relation to a proposed “new” work provider. £35 isn’t hypothetical in that particular case.
Ken has done his homework it seems. However, to achieve a 1st time fix rate of over 75{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} takes some doing. Don’t forget the demands of the customers when at busy times you have to do “fire calls”. This will throw the lot out. Added to that in some areas some of us will be be new service fixers, then you would have to consider the legacy of incompleted, misdiagnosed or recalls. The above will not be a problem if you were the guy doing the work before, as the transition will be seamless. The compounding issue with that would be due to the restraints of the existing contract; if you are at present doing this work you may not be allowed to continue. Hence the high possibility there will be new agents on board to undertake this lot.
An amnesty will need to be set up to allow for the crossover regards recalls etc. This probably would not happen and even if it did, how long would it need to be in place for? If you are a new agent, you would be totally unaware of repair history. Is it ever worth it? I suspect not.
To make matters worse, clearly there is a lack of support from the present work provider relating to technical information. That is reinforced by the recent debate that has been going on in these pages.
We need to know where it is all going and what is the agenda on this? Some of the existing agents may start to get nervous soon.
Rudi.
