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Re: Beware this scam
Send it direct to your local trading standards office complete with the envelope. They are actively working to close these down.
If you wish or feel the need to register you can do that direct for approximately £34.
Re: Electrue/NESN
Some exciting news regards the present NESN contract.
It has been perused by a very good legal mind. It seems that it is too restrictive and therefore can be easily challenged. In view of the present climate where NESN have failed to provide or will fail to provide there is plenty of room to take issue.
Therefore anyone who feels they are held back from maintaining their business due to this can dispute it. All it takes is a bit of nerve and spending a few bob on a decent Lawyer or Barrister.
I know a solicitor has advised this can easily be, “blown out of the water”.
He who dares wins.
Rudi.
Re: The Whirlpool Thing
Whirlpool it seems are recruiting new agents north of Watford Gap.
Are they phasing out existing by doing deals in smoke filled rooms, or are they anticipating a backlash & agents terminating?
The money on offer is rubbish.
Rudi.
Re: Electrue/NESN
bonzaco wrote:. When you get the overview, it looks like this event has been a major boost to Service-Force.
Not exactly a boost for Service Force in itself. It seems that on an individual basis some S.F. centres have been approached by CDSL & taken it on in their own right. Bear in mind these centres are individual companies and unlike those that are part of NESN are allowed to take on any work. Such a contrast really when you consider this was turned down by S.F. and now some centres are happy at what appears to be an even lower rate?
Don’t ask why! They made a commercial decision and it must appear viable. Snag is they will never get it back via the S.F. route as long as they help the situation. There again, they have staff & may have gaps in their work schedules that need filling.
It doesn’t bode too well when the likes of R.F. are happy to ride over the existing network but of course he has been pinned down by NESN like the rest.
Rudi.
Re: Electrue/NESN
bonzaco wrote:Rudi – I was at the meeting too (actually sat next but one to you) and what I saw was a group of service companies trying to come to a compromise in the midst of two waring companies.
Bonz me old Cobber.
Strewth Mate, you need to be careful regards seating plans. Someone may work out who you are. That meeting, what we saw was not only a group of service companies trying to come to a compromise, but trying to come to terms with what has been done, and where things will inevitably end. It wasn’t the Nuremberg Rally that J.T. subsequently said it was, far from it in fact.
I am only too aware of the ramifications of the loss of this work, and the fact we are denied being able to continue, thanks to the bloody-mindedness of NESN with their threats to sue. This was stated quite categorically at the meeting, yet not tabulated in writing in the follow up e-mails. As you say there could be 50 to 60 service companies that could fail over this. We must not allow these shenanigans to put talented staff and companies on the scrap heap. This is why I am so passionate on this, and why I keep fighting the cause. I’m not fighting my own corner particularly as I am a born survivor, but I abhor the manner in which this lot has been undertaken.
You said about the chance being taken away when the System 200 was cut off. I think we can say there never was going to be the option of that chance or opportunity. I can see your point in saying up yours to NESN and collectively we have the power to overcome silly threats; regretfully we need strength in numbers and not all of our colleagues would go for it. I sincerely hope it is clear where the blame lies, and we must endeavour to prevent history repeating itself. The likes of whatever work provider it may be in the future, must never be allowed to treat members or this trade in the manner that has unfolded here in the last 12 months.
The victims out there have been us service agencies, particularly where we employ staff to cover this contract. It means making good engineers redundant, (who will blame you, not the system and then probably go out in competition against you). The alternative would be to carry these guys, and hope you can absorb them and keep them gainfully employed. That can be done for a few months, and you have to push for every call you can get. It will strengthen your business though and improve the quality of life no end. It can be done.
I don’t think we have been wilfully stuffed by CDSL, they are in a difficult position now, and have to avoid Judiciary action themselves. In setting up a new network, the last thing they want is to fight this battle to the death. I’m sure they would seriously wish to consider most of the present agents, to ensure a seamless transition. Of course that was nipped in the bud thanks to the restrictions of the contract. One option we could look for would be for CDSL to take legal action against NESN. Where they the service provider failed to meet the terms & conditions of the contract. However, I can see the blame being put at the feet of people like us.
There is another way, set up another company to undertake that work, it will mean a bit of legwork, but can be done. If for example you are a partnership/sole trader, now is the time to become an incorporated limited company. The tax savings will justify the cause alone and it can all be done in 3 weeks. If possible get in by April 1st. Then the limited company can undertake whatever work they want, and still survive. Speak to your accountant and he/she will set the wheels in motion.
There are ways around it; you just have to be as canny as they are and keep one step ahead.
All is not lost, unless you are prepared to lose it.
Rudi.
Re: Electrue/NESN
I suppose really this will make more sense to those in the know as it were. I’m referring to the meeting on weds 28th and the subsequent e-mails. I cannot work out where we are supposed to be heading? On one hand we are being told we can: “Work with CDSL but only on the CDSL job management system for the notice period up to 19th Aprilâ€. No mention there of any specific work, so it looks like we can entertain whatever is passed.
In another directive we are then told: “We agreed that all work for the duration of the notice period would be completed on the CDSL 600 system. However, it must be noted that this is only applicable for current NESN work passed by connect. Any attempt made by Connect, to pass other work, must be reported to us immediately etc.â€
What are we supposed to make out of that?
One e-mail mentions, “clarification of salient points and agreed outcomeâ€. More or less as below.
1) They have agreed to complete the “3 month notice period. This was to support Bernard Harrison, to secure the relationship with DSG and the possibility of future work direct from themâ€. Oh Yeah, as if that will ever come about? DSG must be in total turmoil over this and I would be amazed if they can maintain any working relationship at all.
2) Then there is a clear indication regards “Bullying tactics from representatives of Connectâ€. I’ve not come across this, but if this has happened I’m sure solicitors’ letters and veiled threats haven’t been part of those discussions.
3) “We have been given assurances that all completed work will be paid in full on both systemsâ€. Can anyone give an assurance that agents will see all that money and on time, as well as outstanding on the system to date?
4) “Anyone found to be working direct after this date will be removed from the NESN network, as this would be in breach of contract with us.†There is no mention of whether such action would incur a solicitor’s letter followed by legal action. That seems to have been the case to date. If things have changed on that front, then I can assume agents will be terminated without penalty.What happened to all the spin? “Exciting times, Challenge, Window of opportunity†etc. Must have evaporated! We have put up with this for over a year now, and what is there to offer at the end of it all? It has become a shambles and everybody in one way or another has been tainted by it. I cannot see NESN gaining any more work from DSG nor can I see agents wanting to maintain a healthy relationship. Has NESN got any more serious work in the pipeline to replace this large contract? If so they need to demonstrate to the agents there is a future with them, and to reinstate confidence. It is coming to an end and there will be casualties.
Rudi.
Re: Electrue/NESN
I don’t know if this one has escaped everybody’s attention.
Over the last week we have been debating the closure of the relationship between NESN & CDSL. As you all are aware, there is a 90-day notice period, which has now come into effect since the termination by CDSL.
So, what does that entail? In 90 days, the link between the 2 will be severed. That means in late March CDSL have to go it alone. They cannot call on NESN agents due to the restrictions in the contract, where said agents are prohibited from taking on any work for 6 Months. This 6 months won’t even kick in until the link has been severed between these 2 companies. That in effect takes it to September 04.
The above has been reinforced by a letter sent by the director of NESN to CDSL Dated 22nd January 04. This letter goes on to insist in paragraph 2.4 that, “No contact will be made by CDSL with NESN’s service providers, with reference to the subject matter of the contract or the provision of any similar services to any other personsâ€. The point is, due to the restrictions of the contract; the existing agents will be stuffed. If they keep to the contract, and act as professionals, this work will cease in 3 months, but of course they cannot take on the same work for a further 6 months. That means CDSL will have to make other arrangements, and you’ve guessed it, that will mean recruiting new agents. I really feel for the existing agents at present.
As existing agents cannot undertake this work, they will find their workload will seriously diminish after the 90 days. This is a case of, “It is my ball, & I’m going home.†These 90 days will be used in order to strengthen or create the CDSL network. If that doesn’t happen then NESN has won the day. We must not give them the satisfaction.
Now I feel is the time for NESN to bow out with some honour and make way for a suitable transition procedure. This whole affair has caused severe grief to all parties that have been involved in this, and now there is an opportunity for a solution.
To take this further, I realise what Bonzaco is driving at. Some of us remember the dealings that took place and the way the work was passed to from Nottingham to GDA from under our noses. Some of us will never forgive, and indeed put the blame on a certain individual. We have memories, yet why should we not give it another chance? That decision taken 3 years ago was a corporate one made in Hemel Hempstead no doubt, and one person took the blame. I say we shouldn’t shoot the messenger, and see if we can work with him again. Bear in mind he now has new employers, as well as the fact he has seen the underhand dealings that have been taking place recently. I’m sure he is well aware that we will be on his case, we can always start another battle in the future if we need to and the work providers must not be allowed to get away with running roughshod over us on this one. DSG if they read this should “Bowl Out†NESN, they have the power.
As long as the contract is workable, profitable and not so restrictive we may as well consider it. Added to that is the fact that one way or another CDSL still has to service this contract.
We need to move forward on this, and as far as I can see, this is the only opening going at the moment. There may be better options out there, but they are not up for grabs at the moment I’m afraid.
Rudi.
Re: Electrue/NESN
ajp wrote:that seems intresting does anyone know when this meeting will be taking place and where.
cos we would like to go. well we would like to go to the second one for the no people.
that is if they are inviting the agents or is it just for there partners??? 😕The above I think tells us something. Preaching to the converted or holding this for the no dissenters perhaps.
The meeting is on Weds 28th Jan at:-
The Quaility Hotel, Birmingham road (A34) Great Barr Walsall.
There will be 2 sessions, 1st is from 9 to 1 & the 2nd from 1.30 to 5.pm
This is open to ALL members according to M. Wheelan’s e-mail. I can only assume you are not one of the “chosen few”. Some people were conspicous by their absence last time.
Can I thank DAF for seeing through all this, he is dead right but I think the percentage balance may be worse than suggested. Whatever it is, the big consideration has to be that the GUARANTEED option is the obvious route.
Re: Electrue/NESN
kwatt wrote:There is to be a national meeting of NESN members on Wednesday 28th January held by NESN specifically regarding Connect.
Take note: re. the above meeting Weds 28th Jan for all NESN C/Plan agents.Are they out to tell us things or ask us to help?
I remember the last meeting at Walsall in early December. One point stuck in my mind and it seems that it has been conveniently forgotten. There was assurance that certain points in the terms & conditions of the contract would not be rigidly enforced against NESN members. The proviso was that agents were not to take on work for less money than NESN were paying per call.
I know I didn’t dream that one, as there were at least 15 agents in that room who heard the same. So, the quick fix is to convince C.D.S.L. to pay MORE money than the current N.E.S.N. rate. I suspect they are well placed to do that as they have in effect “cut out the middle manâ€. Therefore agents need to seek the rate from C.D.S.L. and if greater than the rate they are enjoying at present, go for it. There will be nothing to lose as in the short term the above rash promises made by J.T. in Walsall is applicable, and you will be paid more by the new work provider.
It seems the Grand Leader of them all has failed to comprehend what a 90 day termination clause really means. It means in 3 months this workload will be no more, having expired and run out of life. (No I’m not quoting the dead parrot sketch).
Please remember one thing if you feel an allegiance to N.E.S.N. they won’t be there forever, and whatever problems you envisage by terminating or walking away early, will still apply at a later date. You will only put off the inevitable. I know any decision will have to be carefully considered, but now there is a loophole to break away from an oppressive regime.
Rudi.
Re: An Idea For NESN Agents…
United we stand, divided we fall etc. etc. I’m all for it.
One thing though, we need to get this across to those poor souls who aren’t party to this forum. We can say on here, “Brothers Unite” but somehow we need to get the message across. I’m at a loss to know the best way of doing this.
We need a cunning plan.
Re: Contract Law
The other bad news is, some poor unsuspecting agents of a certain company signed their contract, but were never given a copy themselves.
When it is too late, and any issues come to light that invoke the clauses there-in, they (the agents) are stuffed.
This will be brought painfully to their attention by the parties concerned.
There is going to be fall out from all this, and this industry must NEVER allow it to happen again.
I always suggest that if there is a contract, get your solicitor to read it 1st, and ensure you get copies signed by the other pary before you add your signature. That way it is in your hand.
Anyone who reads the new CDSL contract will see the words “gentlemans agreement”. What a pleasant change to see that!
Rudi
kwatt wrote:
All I would say is that if you are in the position of being torn between the two, please, please speak to Electrue as they are being decent and realistic over this.Whatever you do, DON’T PANIC! This will get sorted even if it takes a few days to settle down.
K.
It had to happen, now we are looking at a better future.
Yesterday, Electrue terminated with N.E.S.N. No doubt they (Electrue) had enough of Customers, D.S.G. and Engineers moaning. I can’t say I blame them, this has been coming for a little while.
Active readers and contributors to this site start to consider that we as a group have achieved something, I would suspect that is not the case. We do not deserve any responsibility for the events of the last 24 hours, or even the last 12 months, it is down to the irresponsibility of N.E.S.N. We haven’t won anything, N.E.S.N. have lost a lot.
Just look at the postings regards the horror stories, not even where you would expect conflict when we are dealing with angry stressed customers, we are talking about our colleagues. N.E.S.N. appeared to go out of their way to give a hard time to most of their agents, now they have to reap what they have sown. They have even tried to beat people with a legal stick as well as financial penalties. This had to end, and it has.
There is an e-mail out today from the leader, calling for subversive action, i.e. to employ guerrilla tactics and make life difficult for the new fledgling operation. Who do they think they are kidding? After treating us like dirt the last 12 months, they are begging our support. They have a 90-day termination period; they ought to come out of it with a little dignity, not acting like a petulant child.
If anyone out there may be considering this line of action, think carefully; what you opt for would be short term; you would make no friends and be perceived to be as bad as that lot. That will gain nothing as at the end of the day, the work is bound to go elsewhere. Of course this is down to the individual, and there is the risk that the funds may dry up. Consider this, if everyone united behind N.E.S.N. to undermine the change, there is the risk that payments due to N.E.S.N. will be suspended: that will cause a large ripple effect, with no money in the kitty, then no one would be paid.
Electrue/Connections have in my estimation done this properly. I have a copy of their amended heads of agreement, and it is so much better, there is no comparison with the one that was produced a couple of months ago. The conditions are realistic, there are procedures in place to escalate grievances and they are even looking at product training. Moreover, you can see from the document, they are going to work with their agents, and not against them. They may have learnt from the mistakes of the last 12 months. Perhaps D.S.G. may have been made painfully aware that the terms and conditions were unrealistic. Whatever the reasoning, the outcome is far better.
Now everybody must move on, not try and run with the past. Electrue will have to strengthen their network, and sell the service to new and old service agencies alike. They will have an uphill battle, and there is the draconian contract that N.E.S.N. will no doubt use to hold members to ransom.
This has caused a little excitement on my part, and I think we are at the dawn of a new beginning.
Enjoy the week, it can only get better.
Rudi.
Re: Account Identities
kwatt wrote:
I refer in particular to Rudolph since everyone and their dog, as well as certain WP or two plus a few others, are desperate to know who he is. Sorry Rudi, you’re a popular guy, what can I say. You’re acidic comment must have ruffled a few feathers and I bet that raises a chuckle or two from you.So basically, if you want to know who Rudolph or anyone else is on the site don’t bother to ask because we won’t tell you as much for your own peace of mind and protection as everyone else’s.
K.
Thanks for that. I must admit I am a bit flattered that my input is looked upon with such mixed emotions and from both sides of the fence.
As you rightly say, there’s only the chosen few that know who is who, and if it wasn’t for that, then myself as well as a few others would be more contained. I’m not party to know as to who goes under what name, this is borne out by me assuming someone was not who I thought it was. (Bernstein in the rumour mill). That was my fault for jumping to conclusions and poor research. The point is; I don’t want to know goes under what banner either, it would ruin the ethos of this whole thing.
It has been suggested that some of us should come clean and perhaps put our money where our mouths are. Not so easy I’m afraid.
I admit, when someone writes to the press under a pseudonym; I tend not to read it too seriously; as I feel they are hiding an identity and cannot be taken serious. As much as I’d like to, I cannot divulge who I am. Believe you me, I’d love to, but it would cause a lot of dilution in my postings. I don’t put myself as being significant, but I’m am well known in the industry and the ripples would cause problems to more people than you could imagine, and the effects would be outside of the White-goods site.
I used to have my e-mail address in profiles, but recently I had to remove it as there were threats coming my way. Some organisations are keen to “Make his or her solicitors richer†by slapping an injunction upon me. That would actually have an adverse effect that they are blissfully unaware of, I won’t go into the reasons etc.
If you look at my postings, all I’m doing is laying out what is really happening to our industry, and most of my venom is against one particular offender. What I’m doing is simply drawing everyone’s attention to things that are going on, and most of you already are aware of these injustices anyway.
As long as I remain anonymous, then I can keep on plugging and keep the issues in high profile. If I do get rumbled, I’ll only come back under another name.
Rudi.
kwatt wrote:No Rudi I got it, but I know that “Trubbish” is not who you think it is, I cannot offer any further information without breaching my ethics on privacy. The only reason I’ve said this is that I refuse to see a personal slagging match here as I think we’re above that and I hope that this comment is enough to kill it.
K.
Oops sorry.
Just when you get a name that sounds so familiar as well as the picture of Comical Ali, it was too easy to draw the wrong conclusion
Rare for me but I shot from the Hip. Aplogies due here.
Rudi.
Re: Bernstein!
Rudolph_Hucker wrote:
trubbish wrote:
makes my weekend to see you all getting shaftedCheeky Git!
Anyway there is a distinct difference. We are talking of a company here that has, or is in the process of going down. Not in the process of purposely undermining other business and whom are supposed to be working partners and colleagues…………..
………We will just dust ourselves off, stand up proudly & bloody well get on with it. At least we know where we stand.However, there are some people who daily live in fear of the way they are being treated by one work provider in particular.
Remember, “those that victimise, may well become victims themselves.”
I don’t know if Ken & Ted missed the point, or maybe I wasn’t assertive enough with regard to my intent on my last posting in here. I agree with the above sentiments and we should not allow ourselves to be brought down due to bad management or poor accounting. It has happened too many times in the last 2 years or so, and cost us a fortune. Some of us were smart enough to see the writing on the wall and take action, but in some cases we never saw it coming. I put companies on stop on a regular basis when they dither with payments. As soon as I get the money, we are away again and in those cases I make the decision whether we continue the work. Therefore if I foresee a problem and fail to act upon it, then I have to blame myself.
What I was getting at is the total bare a**ed cheek of a previous poster in this thread. Goes under the name of Trubbish I don’t like to get personal or name fellow posters in a derogatory manner, but it has to be said. He seems to be gloating at any likely misfortunes that may come our way. Maybe I’ve read it wrong between the lines.
What he wrote was an absolute effrontery, how dare he say that, when you look at some of the underhand things has been done in order to “shaft†colleagues. One company in particular is perhaps the worst offender in the business for getting people shafted. Their leader who goes under a similar name appears to be the perpetrator in many of the cases. I am aware that he is being beaten by a great big stick from the major contract he is driving, but there is absolutely no need to undermine the integrity of the people that are supposed to be service partners.
His one line fully demonstrates perhaps a degree of arrogance, and couldn’t give a toss attitude. The leader of the Work provider to whom I refer seems to take pleasure in seeing the demise of people like us. Well, that is his slant on life, all I know is we are a proud bunch, have a degree of honour and do our best for customers, work providers and the industry as a whole. We do not need prats like him trying to be supercilious and clever. . I’m glad it made his weekend, it has made mine, as it has reinforced my thoughts as to the type of person he really is.
Rudi
