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Re: D&G and Whirlpool
Don’t build up any hopes you guys.
D&G Inkfish at Nottingham are intercepting some chargeable calls already. There is a trial in 2 Whirlpool areas, and the calls are taken up by D&G.
They tell the prospective customer that they should be prepared for a service call costing between £80 & £120 before they start, and then offer a “repair plan” at £14.99 per month over 10 months.
All very dandy, provided the customer takes it up. But of course the chargeable call that should have been, is now an insurance job, and at the W/Pool D&G rate. Profit gone there then! The frightener is though, the punter is scared off by the thought of around £100 for a service visit, and puts the phone down. Then of course, the local service partner fails to see the call at all. No chance of winning the job, as it will be lost altogether, or come back through the D&G scheme at a derisory rate.
Think about it, the best part of being a service partner is the chargeable work, as all the rest goes back to Croydon, and they take a fair chunk. Now between them & D&G they will cream off all that is left.
Rumour has it that some Service Force centres have been drawn into this as well.
Sad state of affairs to say the least.
Rudi.
Re: The Whirlpool Thing
gegsy wrote:
cookermann wrote:
changes happening @ whirlpool call centre’sjust keep an eye n it
Its not going to India is it 😯Greg
Try Nottingham!
Rudi
Re: Expert / Glen Dimplex
This one interests me somewhat.
Lec as you know is under the auspices of Glen Dimplex Homecare.
To date they have carried out a pretty poor show of managing this. First thing they do is to drop the most experienced and dedicated member of staff they inherited from Bognor Regis. He would have been an asset in the training and technical support of all refrigeration. In addition he would have been able to allow a seamless transfer of the small but dedicated existing network of agents. I can only suppose money is the criterion that prevails over common sense.
So there they are, all set up and with a group of existing agents they gained with Lec, and land the Beko contract from the demise of Expert Appliance Care. So what do they do, experiment on the Beko refrigeration brand by handling the calls in-house with engineers who have had no or very little training. Where they cannot cope they have farmed it out to Ex EAC engineers, then bill Beko at a preset rate. A rate incidentally that was offered to them in the days they were looking at taking over EAC.
What it looks like they have managed to do is take on the easy side of the EAC contract, with no “American Cabinets” being Samsung, Daewoo etc. and in doing so have avoided the liabilities and TUPE rights that would have come with EAC. Clever move that one.
Where it falls apart is the money guys valued the work at EAC rates, which were far too small. Consequently they have to carry out the work as cheaply as possible. How long will it be I wonder before they go back to Beko and ask for a higher rate, and with them having the mind-set that Beko will kowtow to them in order to have the work done? I think Beko are too streetwise for that to happen.
To compound the above, in some cases they are passing Beko calls to the Lec infrastructure, and paying around £40 per call. They sure can’t be making money on that one.
There are agents who are not getting paid, and I hear they won’t set up an account with said Lec agents. All parts FOC on warranty calls. I wonder how they manage to get around insurance & chargeable jobs?
Are there any ex Lec agents still out there, and are they happy regards the way they are being treated?
Another good old name being sullied as well as abused following a takeover.
Rudi
Re: So who is up for all the Fridge Work then?
AMERICAN CABINET RERIGERATION
Some repairers are humble laundry engineers and have cut their teeth on refrigeration the hard way. Do they want this work? I doubt it. This is a specialist product, and do multi skilled engineers ever see these, of course not because up until now they have been looked after by E.A.C. So now we get one that is bigger than a bungalow, cost a bomb and the engineer has to convince the consumer he is ready & able to suss this thing in one.
SERVEVAST, Smeg repair network for the uninitiated.
Sent out a rates list to all their agents’ regards taking back the refrigeration since the demise of Expert Appliance Care. Some excellent points there, and to be fair a good structure on rates dependent on the product. Looks good on an American cabinet, until you remember the bit on page one regards Non-System work. Has any one noticed though for a Non-System repair on ALL products, to charge “Your Standard Rate”. May I ask what is that rate? Centres are paid between £34 & £44 per call. This is not thanks to geography but due to the temerity of the business owner picking up the phone and brokering a deal.
I.S.D.A.L.
They have also landed some premier refrigeration work, and are hiving it out. All very well, but back to the American Cabinets again. Then they have the cheek to levy a referral fee on successful repairs. The e-mail says……….
Building on our close links with Samsung, we have been asked to handle their ‘out of warranty’ customer referral service. Samsung treat out of warranty very seriously. They need a service that is professional and within the same expectations as in warranty.
O.K. So who is doing the warranty work, and why the financial penalty in call handling. I cannot fathom why the customer needs to be routed via ISDA and then they get a rake off. Who is to stop the repairer telling the user to phone them direct in future? The customer should be given the number of the repairer and that is it.
CDSL
Another lot who are trying to handle repairs on these, Samsung & Daewoo are coming to the fore. Seems hey are so desperate, that where there is no cover, or in a rural area, it is a case of “name your price”. All very well, but leaves little in the kitty for those that were not aware there might be a better option regards this work.
Where are the specialists I ask??
Sad old world.
Rudi
Re: Servicepower
Funny that, I log on for the 1st time in a while, and see scrolling at the top of the list, Service Power. I must be psychic.
Pop into the rumour mill via the following link.
http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/modules.p … pic&t=3686
Dodgy territory I fancy, but choice is yours.
Rudi
Re: CDSL
I know there is a Brandt thread somewhere. I suspect this posting could have been appropriately placed there, but this is such a close relative, and the link is so strong being that CDSL have the poisoned chalice of managing this one, it may as well stay here.
This is an e-mail that has gone out to all the CDSL agents.
We have received several complaints from DeDietrich that our Service Providers are refusing to repair products outside the manufacturers guarantee period, there may or may not be correct as I do not have any specifics.
Whilst we understand it is totally your choice to accept or decline a customer service request. I am sure that you will understand that it is quite embarrassing for repaircare to pass the customer your details only for the customer to be told that you do not carry out repairs on DeDietrich products out of guarantee or products not covered by an extended warranty.
Therefore could I ask you to confirm directly back to me if you do not wish repaircare to pass you any directly chargeable to the customer calls on DeDietrich or Fagor products.
Best regards and thank you for your assistance.Roy Fisher
Head of Repair Contracts
repaircare.net
Strangely there seems to be a case of; “I’m only doing the Brandt for you, because I have to”. We have long memories, and I hope the vibes get back to them as to why some of the repairers are saying no. Brandt may one day learn a lesson. They treated all their agents like dirt; they don’t deserve a repair network as good and strong as CDSL appear to be.I hope it comes back to haunt Manoj at Brandt, and perhaps he will see that the way he dumped all his agents has had a very long lasting effect.
Moreover, I hope Roy Fisher takes it on board that some of the old Brandt network still are not in a forgiving mood.
Happy & Prosperous New Year to all except the management at Brandt.
Rudi
Re: Anglo Iberian
As it is the time of good will and seasons greetings, a Christmas card would have been nice from AIS, but I suppose that might be for someone else to deal with for next year.
As mentioned earlier, a letter has gone out to all on the AIS address book, even to ex agents and suppliers. So one can assume no homework was done, just a copy & paste job by someone not in the know of who is who.
To the layman it looks like Anglo Iberian is in for a whole new restructure. Waterline happens to be sharing a neighbouring postcode; (other end of the block with the letter box around the corner). They even kindly lent AIS their franking machine, as well as that there is a relationship in trade. However, it doesn’t end there.
http://www.waterline.co.uk/cgi-bin/waterline.storefront
Reading between the lines of a letter that was penned in the absence of the author, we are either talking about asset stripping, or a factoring of the old company. The likelihood of a complete take over has to be considered, I bet it would be cheap as well. There isn’t a lot these days in the portfolio of AIS I’m sorry to say. As well as losing a shed load of agents, they have waved goodbye to a fair chunk of their agency work. These being the work providers who AIS kept saying that they are unable to get better rates out of in order to pay us, the repairers. Strange though that most of those companies have come back to us, and are happy to pay us considerably more.
They can’t say they were not warned, most of what has happened to date was on the cards, and we are not daft.
Take a look at the following link, may make a bit of sense to you.
http://www.growthcompany.co.uk/company/ … line.thtml
If there is a new beginning, then we need to be kept up to date in a better fashion than we have enjoyed thus far. Even the staff at AIS was unaware of this big move it seems. Not really commutable from the old site.
1. Are the agents going to be reassured that all will remain the same?
2. Can there be guarantees that outstanding accounts will be settled?
3. Will the same agent data base still be employed?
4. Are the rates likely to increase?
5. Is the present staff going to re-locate to keep this transition seamless?
6. Why was this kept under wraps until the last minute?
7. Why consider such an upheaval at the busiest time of the year? unless it was a case of having to!Bit historical I know, but nevertheless worth a read.
https://www.oft.gov.uk/News/Press+relea … 18a-00.htm
I for one am interested to know where Graham and the team are heading on this one. Is it a new beginning, a consultancy or into a brick wall and early retirement.
Happy new year to all by the way.
Rudi
Re: Electrue/NESN
Alex wrote:
• Has the contract has been re-structured, especially regards other work?
• What now prevails regards concerns over the money situation? There have been stories of extreme losses and reductions in payments by means of a subsidy
• Do you as an agent make money on the deal, or are you hanging in there to regain your status and recoup any losses rather than cut & run.
• Does NESN command the respect in the industry, are the existing members confident?
• How do they compare with others? (don’t name names).
• Would you recommend them to your colleagues that you associate with?
Just a few points that I feel are now prudent.
AlexSilence is deafening.
They need to re-invent the wheel.
We have long & bitter memories and regretfully there has been too much damage done and to many shenanigans in the past.
It is a matter of personal choice whether you go with them, but not recommended as you can see.
Rudi
Re: Electrue/NESN
What a cracking bit of news.
Can I just say how nice it is to see the above e-mail that was put out to the network being posted. A brave move indeed.
I have been trying to think of a way to make a veiled posting, not name names and yet put all of the populace in the picture. Didn’t think of telling it like it is, lacked my subtlety which was just as well, so problem solved.
I have been looking at the e-mail from Carol for a few days now, and of course watching events for over 2 years. I have been making efforts to highlight the past and to bring it to everyone’s attention. What I wanted to avoid though was the risk of jeopardising the whole situation, especially now as it was heading towards a conclusion. There are still issues that need to be put to bed, but the end is nigh in the case of one or two individuals.
I on behalf of a lot of people felt it prudent to bring into public awareness the events as they have unfolded, and in particular to keep those who were out of the loop informed. This for me has been difficult, as although I felt a duty of care, I was aware that I could actually undermine the integrity of the wrong people. So I had to keep it all in the form of code and conjecture. What a relief it is now that it is all in the open, and yes there were certainly some dodgy dealing. The perpetrators have not been NESN themselves, but the so called members who have ridden on the backs of a well established company, and tried their utmost to undermine the whole operation. These are people who have been responsible for wielding a large stick, and doing their damnedest to apportion the blame in a corporate manner.
They made themselves to look as though they were the ambassadors of NESN. Fortunately a lot of right minded people saw through the charade and soon realised that the venom and misdealing were only by a small minority of so called leaders and self important personage.
I am really pleased that at last we are heading towards closure, and importantly the villains of the piece have been exposed. Now we have been put in the picture, we must remember that there are still the risks that go with Service Power. So the second chapter is now opening. I can’t wait to get my teeth into that lot.
May I reiterate something that I have said several times; how I applaud Carol Madden for being so resolute in the way she has handled the whole situation. Fortitude may not be the best word here, but sheer determination and above all the courage of her convictions. Madam, I am impressed.
Have a good weekend, and 3 cheers to British Justice.
Rudi
Re: A sign of the times?
I suppose I ought to take the tale of That Lot, versus the Other Lot coupled with the Involvement of Another Lot to a new level.
Please forgive me for being remiss in not mentioning in my last post a proposed liaison between the Other Lot and Another Lot; I suppose the family name might be Yet a Different Lot.
The other Lot have just had their AGM, and you may recall from my last posting that at that small event a derisory comment was passed about UKW, being referred to as “That Lot”, yes us. The instigator of the aside is a big noise in the body of repairers known as Another Lot, and it seems his cohorts are rapidly gaining a high profile within the patronage of the Other Lot. This includes a member of the management team taking a position within the heart of the organisation of the Other Lot, that I’m sure will reduce the credibility of the Other Lot, as well as their supposed impartiality, and may well reduce their chances of gaining other independent members.
The upshot of this is that the Other Lot could eventually become the mouthpiece and flunky of the group of repairers commonly known as Another Lot, unless someone within the Other Lot wakes up. All they need to do is look around them and they will find a very high percentage of their body are repairers for Another Lot.
Yes you now have it; members and management of Another Lot are gradually interspersing with the Other Lot, and of course as the Other Lot are so thin on the ground that they may have unwittingly welcomed the beast into their homely abode.
By the way, No I’m not naming names. Even Clueseau should be able to work this lot out.
Rudi
Re: A sign of the times?
kwatt wrote:It also strikes me as somewhat odd that I recieve reports from the DASA AGM that a certain person (not DASA and not a repairer) made reference to UKW in a less than flattering light. I may not be there and I may not hear it first hand, but rest assured we hear and we take note. We also remember.
We also take note of other events when we get wind of them and I’m perfectly capable of joining the dots and seeing that some would like a fractured trade. It suits their purposes and if I can put an end to it, I shall, as I think we’ve all had enough of playing little political games to the benefit of others.
K.Yes this comment has found itself moving around various circles.
The reference was pointing towards UKW as “That Lot”
Fine by me, I’m happy to be part of That Lot. After all DASA is the Other Lot, and the person in particular represents Another Lot. A lot incidentally who like DASA never post in this medium. So what qualifications he holds to make such a flippant statement is beyond me.
So who are we? That Lot.
A lot that had twice the number of attendees at a 6 month meeting held at Sibson, compared to the amount DASA (the Other Lot) could muster. In fact even if the whole of the DASA membership showed up for their AGM, they would have still been hard pushed to have reached the numbers that attend the meeting of That Lot.
That Lot were the ones who generously covered the cost of the excellent food at the lunch time, not at the cost of £30 odd per delegate, as levied by the Other Lot. This was available to all Lots.
That Lot are the ones that have no problem in extending the hand of friendship to any Lot, including the Other Lot and Another Lot.
That Lot are the ones that keep the lines of communication open, and are not afraid to hold dialogue with no matter who or What Lot.
That Lot are the ones who in conjunction with a leading detergent manufacturer, are carrying out training and product research. Unlike Another Lot who feel it appropriate to try and stem the results. We know it is going on and letters are flying around like confetti.
That Lot happen to be the repair side of the industry, the bottom end of the trade and the ones who take all rubbish and excuses given by the customers and work providers alike, then expect to take the hit when the revenue stream has a hiccup.
That Lot happen to roll their bloody sleeves up, get on with it, keeping the customer paramount and taking ownership of the work.
The Other Lot only seem able to talk a little among their own little enclave, get nothing done, fail to communicate with others and think they are in ivory towers.
The body referred to as Another Lot are the ones that shafted a Lot of the repairers of That Lot, before That Lot got together and started talking. This was when this person represented a Different Lot.
The moral of this story is, someone felt fit to belittle us, and before doing so should have done a head count. We may appear to be That Lot, but there are an awful Lot of us.
As a postscript, the Other Lot still hasn’t felt it appropriate to divulge their cunning plan to boost their membership. It makes sense what they have proposed, then what do they do, keep it to themselves and not advertise the fact.
Maybe they are the Silly Lot, and the one who decided to castigate us represent the Wicked Lot.
Doesn’t make a Lot of sense to some perhaps, and more sense to others, but I enjoyed writing this.
Lots of regards
Rudi
Re: Profit & Loss
Maybe this should be in the CDSL thread in the rumour mill. If any moderators feel appropriate to move this, feel free.
So, am I going to be the one to “break the seal” regards CDSL? Meaning, does it need to be up to me to open up on this lot. Is the honeymoon over? I really hope not, but CDSL are getting intransigent in their old age.
They came into our businesses like a breath of fresh air after the shambles and vice like grip of NESN. Point is though, how much of it is window dressing? Call logging system is good, they listen, (at least they did), and they attend meetings to encourage our input. What they don’t do very well though is communicate. NESN (for their sins) do hold agents meetings, and they keep agents in the loop with e-mails. Of course as in any business, they only need to tell us on a need to know basis, all we hear from CDSL though is rumour, or news when it has happened, then it is usually bad news such as the acquisition of the LG or Brandt work.
This is not my findings, but comes from the vibes that have been reverberating of late. Members of this site only need plot their way around several topics, and all will be revealed. Some comments are veiled, and some are fervently to the point.
Rejections are becoming an issue it seems as there are some in the pipeline mainly relating to L.G. Some of course will be agents fault for not inputting all the information, but they (CDSL) should address the IT system to accommodate this. They shouldn’t allow repairers to download and complete a call if the facts are not provided on completion of the call. Therefore if their system does not hold the necessary parameters, then agents should not be historically penalised. Some L.G. rejects are over 12 months old. A lot of things have transpired since then, including customers moved or even passed away.
To compound things, CDSL do not have a good method of tracking history, therefore they give out a call, then when rejected months later by the maker as a recall, they issue a debit note. Sometimes the previous work was carried out by a different agent; and yet they are unaware of any earlier work carried out until it is brought to their attention.
Any decent business needs to operate on a budget, have a yearly strategy plan for the future and be aware of income and potential pitfalls; they do not expect to be faced with debits where there are rejections aged over a year old. To produce a large batch then set a financial penalty, and without notice, is reprehensible and can undermine any one of us. We still have to pay the staff, if we tried that approach with our workers, we would have a mutiny.
Regretfully this is historical with L.G. They hold fire with the paperwork, they reject on a whim, have been known to refuse to recognise customers whom they previously paid claims on, then when they refuse to pay the managing agent, that should not fall upon the repairer. The facts need to be ratified whether the work is covered and by whom prior to sending out the call. If CDSL fail to get this and send a call purporting to be either on warranty or insurance, why should we the repairer being the company that put in the work be penalised?
It has been said that birds of a feather etc. and it has been said more than once about which companies in this business need to be avoided at all costs. Brandt fall high in this category, LG don’t seem to be far behind. Then what happens, many of us won’t touch these outfits as they have always been bad news. Some repairers have been stung several times by both manufacturers. They have nowhere to run, so in desperation the likes of Brandt when they run out of friends go to CDSL. They are only too aware of the power that CDSL seem to hold over a lot of us. Power brought on by volume. The decent bodies we carry out work for know better than trade with such nefarious companies.
Some Brandt calls necessitate 2 engineers; there is nothing in place to cover this. Brandt doesn’t pay by the individual call on its own merits, they take each job as a part of a batch, and we have to live with it. Not too bad a thing when we are dealing with a half reasonable product. What do we have with Brandt though, built in, double calls, poor spares and technical back-up, in essence a rubbish product at a premium price and a customer that fits the bill perfectly.
There is an apparent North-South divide as well. The feelings regard the support and overall mannerisms of the 2 managers are literally poles apart. It cannot be disputed that the Southern manager is a listener and will help his agents, yet his associate in the North his less than accommodating when agents hit an issue, or needs support. In case anyone states that Northern agents have a different philosophy, this I would dispute. Issues are issues no matter the topography.
This is a 2 way street. We may worry about CDSL getting too powerful, but if they allowed some of us to become super agents, then said agents should have some power as well. Of course we all know they have already thought of that, and they like to think they are dealing the deck. Hence using several levels of cover.
Take away the LG and Brandt, and we would be dealing with a good company. This is not a rant at having to knuckle down and get on with it; we are used to that with volumes of work and the Zanussi bearing changes. Difference is though we are talking about a better machine and there are quality repairs on the brand that offsets the effects, as well as an extra payment for bearing changes.
All this is food for thought of course. Feel free to think of this what you wish.
Rudi
Re: Electrue/NESN
What you have been reading as above is nothing compared to the real story. The timetable of events that have taken place yesterday is mind boggling to say the least.
All I can say at this stage is that there is something very heavy going on, and one of the players it appears could be about to produce the trump card.
Events may be turning around completely, watch this space.
Rudi
Re: Electrue/NESN
Thanks for opening the door on this one. I was tempted to restart this thread myself, but appreciate the fact it has been done for me.
It is quite an interesting e-mail that Danny Strollo has put out, and so public as well. I won’t copy or paste any of the content, because if it was destined for these pages, then it should arrive via a more legitimate means.
Remember the £2 “Bail-Out fee, well it is now to stay until 2006 it seems. Was supposed to be short term; along with one or two other issues that still prevail.
Not a lot has changed. I thought with the passing of the previous director, things were on the up. However, nothing has ever been written to rescind any of the draconian rules that were pressed by J. Trubshaw. Another point, which is more than obvious, where is all the other work that was promised? A little bit has come along, but all the bigger stuff has been absorbed by the likes of CDSL. Carole has come across as charm personified, but hasn’t really bitten the bullet and given out any good news regards her policies and the future etc.
Any way, back to the e-mail. Mr Strollo made reference to 29 jobs where there has been a complaint from an NESN customer. Must assume from that this is not 29 individual complaints, but a collective one. He has not been furnished with the information to submit his defence. Nothing new there then! Yet NESN have it appears failed to clarify the nature, or indeed the gravity of the situation.
So he goes on to suggest there is a risk that NESN are still strapped for cash, well the £2 penalty is still there isn’t it. The salary package he says that is enjoyed by Carole seems rather high, and I suspect may not be accurate, but then nothing surprises me.
He also takes umbrage regards the alleged connection that seems to be in the forefront between his company, himself and Service Power. NESN keeps highlighting there may be a close link, and he is not happy.
Please bear in mind one very important thing. Danny Strollo was high on the NESN good guys list in the days of Mr Trubshaw, and seemed to endorse all their statutes and rules. So much so, that he never felt fit to dispute the edict regard other agency work, nor did he go out of his way to defend or offer support to those of his NESN colleagues that were being screwed down by said policies.
Perhaps we should say, “Poor old Danny”, the phrase here is *“Hoisted by his own petard” it seems. My line from the early days, “Those that victimise, may well become victims themselves” still apply. All that have changed are the players.
Have a good long weekend everyone.
Rudi
*A “petard” was an explosive device used in medieval warfare, usually fixed to castle doors, or weak points prior to an attack. To be hoisted, or lifted, by a petard literally means to be blown up by your own devices.
Re: Anglo Iberian
I bet some have read the posting above and thought What???
Allow me to elucidate.
Out goes an e-mail from ISDA to all their agents advising of a contract for AIS.
It more or less states that following successful negotiations with AIS, ISDA are pleased to announce a rate increase on that particular contract.
Goes on to give the basic rate as: £38 electric & £45 gas. Now this is in line with most in this business today with regards to work providers; and the rate that is felt near to an acceptable level. Take CDSL as a case in point. They recognise the need of the agents, with all the overheads & costs etc. So we see there is a bit of parity here.
Anyhow, looking at that, not bad. Well done those at ISDA in securing this deal. Then scepticism, or maybe even realism creeps in, hang on a minute what is the AIS rate to their direct agents? Well at the last count, £35. Where did the other £3 come from? Then think a little harder, if you happen to be an AIS agent as well, you won’t get the call from ISDA in any case, as they will get it done on the cheap for £35 on a direct deal to you being the AIS agent. Oh Yeah.
So, AIS agents should push for the extra £3 and may well get told, no deal. Therefore, AIS lose yet another agent, and the work comes back in the back door via ISDA @ £38 quid. Makes a bit of business sense to play games on this one. Now put your thinking heads on, ISDA brokered this deal, which we are advised is an agreement, (successful negotiations they called it) £3 more, then they, I would assume have to go to AIS for repayment, and of course add their little bit; it is stacking up as I write this. On top of that AIS get their mark up, when they submit an invoice which by now is third hand, the list goes on.
Next thing out goes another e-mail. Seems like AIS have thrown their teddy out the pram, said something like, “How dare you pay over and above what we pay, Deal is off”. It is patently obvious that AIS was happy to pay in excess of £35 per call, but naively thought that ISDA would screw their agents down to the same levels as they do themselves. At that point ISDA could have re-issued the Memo and amended the figure to £35 with a little apology that due to a typo etc. Not many people would have noticed or particularly cared I suspect. However, that did not happen, a little bit of integrity was used by ISDA which is rare in this trade, and ISDA spelled out what happened and that AIS thought it out of order that ISDA feel fit to may more money.
All I can say, this is wonderful, it is so refreshing to hear of people bickering because one doesn’t pay as much as they ought to where work providers are concerned.
My admiration towards ISDA has raised itself one more echelon, and AIS have dropped even lower into an abyss as far as I’m concerned. No wonder they have lost many agent as well as contracts.
Rudi
