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Re: Performing Rights Society
Now while I realise that some little clubs and sunday leagues may find this unworkable ( Quote )
Come on, get real. This is Oldham Athletic we are talking about. Not a ‘little or Sunday League’ club either.Sorry Jim but I did mention such instances did I not ?
Currently losing several thousand pounds a week, half the first team players are loan signings or free transfers, recognised as having one of the lowest wage structures in the division.
For many going to such events may be sport but its no different to any other business and if the club is loosing such large amounts weekly then the directors need to address the losses and increase revenue by fund raising and ticket prices, raffles, club dances ( yep that’ll need a licence )
They have used the same song for many years, it is only played as the teams run out on the pitch at home games, TBH £700 is a rip off for playing this song around 25 times a year.
To try and charge them £3,900 for playing Mouldy Old Dough, one of the biggest heaps of carp ever recorded is just plain stupid and greedy, thats over £150 for each time this awful song is playedJim.
Mouldy old dough might fall into such a catogory but its a ex-No 1 and the licence is blanket cover and unfortuneatly does not take into account use over a few weeks of the year. £ 3,900 per annum to play one song 25 times is indeed unworkable and like lots of legislation there are always extremites and this is one such case.
Other than refraining from playing that song or commsioning your own club song I cannot see any way around that. Lifes a bitch mate !
Re: Performing Rights Society
Ah Football ! Lets look at the huge fee’s that are paid to players and the ticket prices and huge profits the big clubs make, this pales what we are talking about somewhat.
Now while I realise that some little clubs and sunday leagues may find this unworkable they need to consider if by playing music it enhances their buisness to their customers. Nothing is for nothing, if you find something for nothing then its probably not a lot of good.
I bet that when various football teams have recorded songs over the years that they never once minded the finanancial rewards of their efforts !
Re: Performing Rights Society
Its interesting looking at all the points of view on this subject, yes we all have our own views and many see this as another cash making item of legislation. But I think that when you look further into this its not exactly as it appears.
The minute you start talking about charging for music to be played in public places or where the public or others can hear its almost logical to jump to the conclusion that these artists have way enough money already and naturaully resent being asked to pay more.
Its a fact that the music industry is full of songwriters who earn very little money at all ! imagine getting paid a penny for everytime a piece of your work is played and then wait years to actully see the proceeds ! You have to live in the meantime and whilst there are a few writers who have had one megahit after another there are countless others who have not been so lucky. You could write a thousand songs and have one that enters the charts, on top of all of this the music industry has changed out of all reconigtion over recent years and with millions downloading music for nothing then these writters earn nothing from that.
Imagine us hard done engineers working day after day and seeing nothing for our efforts ? We have all got to live, feed our familys and pay the bills and while there may be those who might suggest that these poor songwriters find themsleves a proper job the world needs a balance.
You can ban the radio or CD player from the workplace in protest of the PRS, you can stamp your feet and shout ” I’m not paying this ! “
Most people like music, we like to listen at home, in the car, down the pub, go to live concerts and events, discos and clubs, without music it would be a dull world and boring workplace.Re: manufacturers parts dvd
Hi, The Whirlpool DVD is available to anyone who wishes to pay for it !
Its known as SIOS and is useful but could be better, as far as I am concerned TDS sets the benchmark for what a Technical Documentation
should be Partfinder is great if you have the full unrestricted version which the Companies own service force have, the Partfinder we get is a much reduced version and considering the money that they want every six months its a P*** take.Re: Performing Rights Society
Yep ! thats about it
WHY A PRS LICENCE IS REQUIRED (THE FACTS )
what UK COPYRIGHT LAW protects
UK copyright law (primarily, the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988) provides protection for recorded music and music videos (along with other types of creative works) by giving the copyright owner certain exclusive rights of use. Anyone who uses recorded music or music videos for those protected uses will be infringing copyright unless they are licensed (i.e. authorised) to do so by the copyright owner.For recorded music (referred to under copyright law as “sound recordings”), the original copyright owner is the person who undertakes the arrangements necessary for the recording to be made – usually this is the record company responsible for organising and paying for the recording. Music videos are protected by UK copyright law as “films” and the same “necessary arrangements” rule applies to determine the original copyright owner.
The copyright owner’s exclusive rights to use recorded music and music videos in the UK include, amongst others:
– the right to play them in public;
– the right to communicate them to the public (including broadcasting them);
– the right to copy them.
Please note that you may still require a licence even if you do not think you are using recorded music or music videos in any of these ways, as the legal scope of these exclusive rights can be broader than you might think – see the panels on the right of the screen for some examples of this.
how ppl is able to grant your licence
There is no section of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 that creates PPL or gives it the power to grant licences. Instead, PPL was set up by the UK’s copyright owners themselves and it is through them that PPL acquires the legal entitlement to grant your licence. On joining, recorded music and music video copyright owners legally transfer the relevant rights to us, or appoint us as their agent to exercise them.The result is that PPL effectively becomes the copyright owner, and is therefore able to grant collective licences authorising you to play in public, or broadcast, all of its members’ recorded music or music videos in the UK. Those collective licences can also cover the copying of recorded music and music videos for certain purposes (e.g. where businesses provide jukeboxes, hard disk systems and other music/video services to other businesses) but for other acts of copying you may require the direct permission of the relevant record company.
This means that you can legitimately use a vast range of recorded music or music videos without needing separate licences from each record company, etc; instead, you simply need the appropriate PPL licence. You can access further details of the various licences that PPL issues via the menu on the left hand side of the screen.
why obtaining a prs or MCPS licence is not enough
Please note that PPL is not the same as the Performing Right Society (PRS), the Mechanical Copyright Protection Society (MCPS) or the MCPS-PRS Alliance.Whenever a sound recording or music video is played in public or broadcast in the UK, a PRS licence is likely to be required in addition to a licence from PPL. Similarly, you are likely to need a PPL licence as well as an MCPS licence to copy a sound recording or music video in the UK.
This is because the law protects separately the underlying musical and lyrical compositions (e.g. the “song”) embodied in sound recordings and music videos. The rights in those musical and lyrical works are owned separately (by composers/publishers) and licensed collectively on behalf of those separate copyright owners by PRS and MCPS (who operate together as the MCPS-PRS Alliance).
what happens if you do not obtain the appropriate licence
Hundreds of thousands of businesses and broadcasters are licensed by PPL and are therefore able to make lawful use of recorded music and music videos. However, please be aware that failure or refusal to obtain the appropriate PPL licence can have serious consequences, and may ultimately result in a court order to stop you playing sound recordings or music videos altogether until all outstanding fees are paid in full – as well as making you pay interest and costs.Re: Performing Rights Society
Petalpop Said: now if you have radio 1 on and you and all the people working there have paid for there tv licence (going up again) and anyone who walks in your shop have paid for theres i don`t see what is wrong
Licence fees for TV and radio are under the Wireless Telegraphy Act i.e that each of us have to pay to RECEIVE wireless or Television transmissions, The PRS licence has nothing to do with that its to to with Public Performance of someone elses material and copyright and legally we all need a licence for both items and in the case of the PRS if music that does not belong to you is played and others can hear it !
Imagine that Microsoft or Adobe were writing software and everyone was not paying for it but that we just passed it on from one to the other ? ( what pirate software ? ) these companies would not make any money and hence develpment of new software would stop.
No Money for aunthorised public perfomance and copyright infringement = no money for the song writers, artists and musicians = no music !
This seems like a simple equation to me .Re: Home CCTV
most of the time CCTV is cost related to the performance of the system, if you intend to install such a system externally theres more involved,personally I would not buy any of the CCTV stuff from the retailer you mention as its consumer type quality and although it may look alright instore it may well not be so good in practice.
I have installed several such systems, one at my business and another at home. The cameras need to be as high a resoulution as your funds will allow and if you want to operate this system in low or zero lux then you need reliable after dark operation. My home cameras operate in total darkness and when you view your system it looks like daytime !
DVRs are also a mind field and things like FPS or frames per second over mutilple cameras becomes an important issue and will have a direct relation to the hardrive size you will need. If you intend to use your system as a security system and ever have the need to use the CCTV footage on a legal basis then the DVR will need the capabilty to time and datestamp the footage and be able to digitally watermark that footage.
Often overlooked is how you get the footage off a system should you need to, so things like USB, LAN, and Internet come into the plan. Some DVRs have CD burners onboard. Personally a USB port is essential as you can plug a USB Memory stick in like a 4 or 8 gig, download the footage required, most DVRs that have this feature allow you to specify just the frames you require, then transfer this to your laptop or base system and using the supplied DVR software you can burn your footage to a CD for archiving or evidence.If your cameras take in any other views than your own property like a footpath which is used by the public or a camera intrudes on neighbours gardens etc, there are data protection issues and the system will need to be licenced.
Wireless systems may yield varying results and there is no good having a incident that is part recorded or unviewable by interference common on such systems. Hardwired is the order of the day with quality cable and seperate power lines to the cameras. Camera focal lengths need to be taken into account for the areas you want under survelliance, you can buy cameras with wide angle, telephoto and different lenses. Its not until you fit these cheaper cameras that their limitations become evident, things like height, angle and distance come into play and if you cannot see the area in detail or make out images like peoples faces whats the use of such a system ?
You also need to think about if you would ever need to expand the system and the cheaper products like you mention will no doubt have no expandabilty. Planing is the name of the game in all this !
Lastly if you just want a system to say cover a small shop then these sytems may be ok but they still need to have the features like date and time stamping and watermarking or they may not be accepted as evidence.
Re: Performing Rights Society
we listen to music via youtube..what can they do about that
As I said previously this comes as no surprise and just goes to show that no matter who you may be the laws of copyright and public performance are enforceable in every case ! Get your licences before they turn up on your doorstep !
Re: Performing Rights Society
Alex I can see where you are coming from and agree with a lot of what you say about the nanny state. In fact we live in a police state, your fine until you raise your head above the parapit and then there are an array of laws which were forged in the name of national security which the suits can use against you. What would the world be without Music ? Dull as ditchwater, in fact Music is a hugely important human exeperience which can motivate the brain in a number of ways, how do you think Lionel Richie or Barry White ever became so popular with couples ! Music can make you happy it can make you sad but this legislation is not designed by any goverment department it is a product of the music industry.
Re: Performing Rights Society
For that scenario you need a couple of hefty boys with Sledgehammers, that would put paid to the likes of those who drive round with four to the floor booming systems.
Re: Performing Rights Society
The PRS ( Performing Rights Society ) and also the MCPS handle the implemention of music, copyright, and where and when it can be played and performed.
These organisations have the full weight of the law behind them and operate worlwide. They can issue legal proceedings against any business or indivdual for the playing of music be it recorded, live performance in a public place or where the public can hear it.If you have a CD or radio in your van thats legal, the minute you lower the window and it can be heard oustide that would in essence constitute a public peformance and the PRS could take action. If you use You Tube in a place where the public can hear then if the music is commercial music which 90{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of it is that music will have the necesarry rights and you would need a licence if more than you can hear it. None of this is new, its just that in these modern times the music industry is far more organised and all the artists, record and publishing companies are represented by the PRS & MCPS, the artists, bands, record and publishing companies get on with the job of making music and the PRS & MCPS have the job of collecting whats due to them all.
We have such a licence displayed at our premises and can play live or recorded music legally. Why do I bother, well firstly there was the case of the garage owner who was served with legal proceedings for the playing of a radio in his workshop where his customers could hear it. That needs a licence, when your next in ASDA doing your shopping tapping your feet to Def Leppard on the store music system, that needs a licence.
If you download MP3s from music sharing sites that is copyright infrigement and can carry heavy penalties in certain situations.
The way this all works from a songwriters perspective is that everytime their compostion gets played they receive a royality and this goes back a long way. You cannot really compare this to repairing a appliance and getting paid everytime it breaks in the future as the repairer did not create the appliance in the first place, go a try making a exact copy of a Dyson and market it and see what happens.
The money raised from the licences and royalties collected goes back to the songwriters, artists and bands who originally created the music just the same as if Take That want to cover a Barry Manilow song, they need his permission as they cannot just go and mangle the song, record it and then sit back and take the profits. The music industry is awash with examples of artists and musicians who have ( lifted ) parts or complete songs for their own use and then claimed they wrote it.
I can see how one would see it as another big brother tax heist and as much as I could use the £ 150.00 for something else I understand how it works in the artists favour many of who are not mulit million pound rich.
Get a licience before they turn up, a couple of months after we got a licence the area had PRS people doing spot checks and now all those business have a licence because if they come back and catch you a second time it will be far more costly !!!
Re: Why Users Are Anonymous
The common sharing of information about this trade, who’s in it, what suppliers are charging too much, who to avoid, is essential to all of us who are independant. If these companies wish to have a handle on any of that why is it that they themselves never had the foresight to create such a resource as UK Whitegoods ??
They may not like it but its here to stay and may long it continue, I enjoy my daily reads of all the topics, views and concerns of my fellow whitegoods professionals as it bonds us all togther in what if the people who are whining about it had their way could be a insular enviroment.
