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Re: Customer warranties on repairs
Or this week a woman who telephoned our shop stating that following a repair we did that we charged her £120.00 and following this repair a lady from our company subsequently phoned to tell her she had been overcharged and would receive a refund of £60 !
Well No 1 we happen to be an all male staff so the latter never occurred and she was advised of this but would not accept the fact and she was further advised that in order for the matter to be investigated further we would require the invoice number of this repair to which she said, I was not given any invoice.
Then suggesting that we always issue invoices with all repairs and could it be that she was mistaken that she had someone else out at which point she started babbling about TS.
Thought that would be the end of matters and that once she thought it through she would recollect who did repair her appliance. WRONG ! She then arrives days later at the counter demanding this money and I then explained that without any receipt or proof of payment that we would not be entertaing her claims any further and that we would be more than happy to cooperate with Trading Standards should she wish to take the matter further!
Heard nothing more but she was arrogant and rude and obviously had made an error
Re: News
Ken I think that the majority of us are very keen to see a cross reference parts listing and as Aquaelectric has said this would allow us as dealers to try and offset the worst of it. Frankly as annoying as it must be to find that someone is stiring the pot so to speak is it fair that we all carry the can for them.
Re: News
Another one ! So much for online contact glad it was’nt just me,
Also having a read through past posts I wanted to broach the subject of the Insurers part in all this:
CSS are Corporate Support Solutions who are effectively an insurance broker. They also are part of the Pacifica Group who are, JTM, CSS, Appliance Network, 0800 Repair, Fixzone and lately HI Home Delivery as well as they bought that late last year. Whether the problems are due to cash issues, administrative cock ups or just someone having it in for ISE/UKW I haven’t a clue and, to be blunt, I don’t give a t*ss.
The above is a segment from a previous post Ken Posted, I was thinking how did the situation ever evolve where presumably a insurance policy was paid for and purchased only to subsequently discover that its terms started to change, we all know how an insurers try to weave but surely ISE had the risks covered in a contract with the insurer to provide cover in the event of the company ceasing to trade, viz all 10 year warranties up to 2010 ? From what has been outlined here it appears that this is not the case and CSS and the Pacifica Group have walked away. Ken has said he has no idea what really has happened in this regard but probably like a few others asking questions I don’t get it
Re: News
As regards having a baulk notification to registered customers I agree with Ken its a bad idea for the very points raised. There’s been a number of questions posed that have not received straight answers which surprises me somewhat, as far as we are concerned it was ISE that offered the warranty not the agents, as we are told the company is no more then that warranty dies with the company demise, not nice for the customers and uncomfortable for us the agents and I am sure that those who were running and funding ISE in its final throws had some sleepless nights. We will where possible continue to support ISE customers who have purchased ISE appliances from us the deciding factor in that being spares availability which is a complete unknown aspect as stated by Ken. We will in the first instance be up front with any customer making contact with us for service as to the situation. Unfortunately I had a ISE call this morning where I advised the customer that ISE was frozen as far as spares were concerned and that they were no longer trading, that customer who happens to be a solicitor has been back on the phone asking more questions late today saying that ISE is still listed as trading at Companies House and I have advised that they should contact ISE for further information as we have not been advised one way or the other on that. We have also been out to another ISE customer who happened to be a ISE Websale customer and provided them with service and repair for which we will receive the princely sum of Zilch.
For the most part ISE has been a good prospect for us in a number of directions and it was a good idea which has been soured by how this has been handled at the closing stages. We have played a straight ball along the way and as the customer said this morning when they opened the door, this ISE warranty is rubbish and so is the way they are dealing with their customers, I can’t argue with the latter statement or the fact that as dealers we knew nothing of this until four days back, the coming weeks and months will no doubt see more criticisms and comment as this situation and the implications mature.
Re: News
If we could have a steer on ANY ongoing spares supply that would be most useful, as regards the data that you have had time to compile personally I am not sure what to make of your references if a) you are generalising that as agents we would not like it or if b) you are being much more specific. From my own standpoint we have always acted in a fair and honest manner with both the customers who purchased ISE and making sure the customer had a positive experience when our engineers called and represented your company Ken and have on more than one occasion gone beyond the pale of duty in ensuring that the data we were feeding you was accurate. If you have any bullets left for us out of that then lets hear it, here or PM I have nothing to hide.
Re: News
Hey Ken, I get what you are saying there are three sides to this, over the last two days I have now got my head around what you were saying at the outset and your last paragraph reinforces that, the part I have issue with is that we were blindly selling ISE 10 in the belief that it was covered all ways and customers who were looking at the ISE website were also buying the product in the belief that they were buying a appliance with the 10 year warranty a premium product, personally I introduced many of my customers to ISE because the concept was great, service what you sell, customers bored of buying appliances that last a short while, sell them up to a ISE 10 was my view and keep the customer in your stable so to speak.
Yes we are hacked off, Yes there will be bother along the way, Yes we wish ISE was still, as it stands it is not and each of us have to deal with it best we can, it would however be very useful to know what spares are still to hand as at some point they surely must have a resale value to try and keep these appliances on the road as designed ?
Re: News
I am frankly surprised that more ISE agents have not been vocal about this situation and Tim has some valid points Ken. Having considered this since learning about it two days ago I am still of the view that at the juncture where the Risk Set changed that we should have all been advised but it appears we were not. Personally If I had the best part of 140K tied up in something it would be far from a hobby especially if the cash could be at risk. Today for instance we have a ISE client calling for service who had already tried via phone and email to get service from ISE. The result was that evidently they were told that there is no service or spares currently as the company may be sold to someone else. To try and keep faith with our customer we have arranged to go out to them tomorrow to see what can be done but if spares are required what then?
I sense Tim’s frustration at being left high and dry, sure companies fail everyday along with people who lose out but this could have been handled in a smoother fashion as far as the Agents & ISE were concerned, this is not a black view of worst case scenario as the customer I am calling on tomorrow happens to be a solicitor !
Re: News
Back at you Squadman, with all due respect it was always virtually exclusively internet based with general communications largely through this forum and, not very often by any other means. It is the best method as, to be honest, you send stuff out and people don’t bother to read it either.
I understand what you are saying Ken but seriously if an agent received a letter or email outlining that as of 2010 the ISE products were no longer backed by insurance and that the 10 year warranty being advertised a key point why customers would buy the product and that it would not perform as expected I cannot imagine any of us not taking notice !
I have identified looking at my own records that we have 11 ISE customers most of which were inside the 2010 cut off period and registered warranties who have no recourse with ISE or their insurer, the others were sold after 2010 and therefore sold with us and the customers believing that as advertised at the time the product carried a 10 year warranty. This would have been much easier had we had been advised that this was no longer the case, from what you are saying and please I am not having a go as that would be unfair given the whole situation, that we are now exposed to instances where the customer cannot get hold of ISE or they choose to ring us only to be advised that the 10 year warranty is void. This will incite anger from the customers with which we have a relationship and it may well be that they wish to proceed exploring the avenues of redress from the insurers whoever they may be? where they cannot obtain reasonable response they will then come gunning for us as we sold them the product, my reading of this is that the customer has to show the goods were not fit for purpose, they have not lasted a reasonable period of time, the product has manufacturing defects, all aspects that in normal circumstances a manufacturer could assist a dealer in disproving. As it stands then we are on our own to argue these kind of points with the customers, some may give up I suspect many will not and will want to possibly try and litigate matters as is human nature for some. I think I now need to take some advise from a suitably trained person so we can deal with any such set of circumstances and a straight and equitable manner as the last thing any business needs are customers who mistrust them.No doubt you have tried your best to mitigate this whole situation and my sympathies are with you and the rest of the ISE team especially David who as been a constant source of help at all times for me.
Re: News
Where can we get sight of the Terms & Conditions of the warranty where it clearly states what is covered and what is not to which you refer to Ken
Re: News
With all respect I would stick my neck out here and say not all your agents including us are engaged in reading every forum, my take on this that as agents/partners of ISE any material change such as we are discussing should have been communicated to anyone doing business with ISE as the whole thing pivoted on Local Service, Long Insurance Backed Warranty and once that situation underwent the degree of change at a basic level ISE should have made us aware of it.
Regarding the situation of being swatted in Consumer law I take your point, what I was asking for with your extensive knowledge on this very subject is the best way for us to handle and communicate with any customer who might now be knocking on our door as they will not be able to get ISE to support the 10 year warranty and then saying our contract was with you, you know what I am saying here Ken and if you are able to give us any advise it would at this stage be very welcome.
Re: News
Hi Ken,
I am trying to get my head around this situation, as far as I am aware we have sold ISE 10 Products more or less since the start, in particular the period that is mentioned 2010 – now we have sold ISE 10 Product in the knowledge that they were covered by warranty for 10 years and we have never during this period been contacted to be advised of anything different why I cannot imagine.
So as I am reading this situation now the ISE brand has demised along with any implied warranties of 5 or 10 years and as it was free with the product there is no claim that can be made by a customer where it is the case the product was NOT insurance backed ? and this accounts for all appliances supplied to us by ISE since 2010 ???
Where appliances were backed by insurance prior to 2010 those warranties were valid against manufacturing defects during the Insured warranty period and items such as carbons, door seals, pumps etc etc etc are not and never were covered ?
As ISE is no longer and that the insurers are ducking and diving the customers have no route to claim under the terms of the insured warranties ?
This brings us to the SOGA as far as the seller is concerned, that a customer has to prove that the appliance was defective from the start and not of merchantable quality this situation being for the customer and retailer to fight out should it be ?
To be honest I have never seen sight of the Conditions of the Warranties but customers as you know and in some part ourselves will be under the impression that if say a ISE 10 stops working say due to the carbons wearing out that it would be remedied by the warranty ???????????????
Just Saying
Re: News
Hi Ken,
Firstly thanks for giving us the heads-up on this most unfortunate set of events and believe me when I say I feel for your situation. For me ISE was a great concept and one that found resonance with many customers. I would like to step back to when ISE was first drawn to our attention and we became involved with ISE.
My Initial concerns with ISE was that of warranties and how they would operate, we were advised by both Kevin, yourself and later John that in the event of an agent ceasing to trade that ISE would pick up the warranty claims and assign the next adjacent ISE agent to remedy the claim, in the event that ISE ceased trading then the whole scheme was backed and supported by a insurance the three pronged approach that the customers could have confidence with.
All of our sales were based on this warranty scheme to give peace of mind to both the customers and the agents most who are small businesses.
I think that from reading through what you have said that basically ISE are not accepting any warranty claims and that spares are questionable and that the insurance backing is now not in place, have I got this right ????If so, this creates a substantial set of issues for us as agents as you are aware and as yet I am not awareif we as a retailer are liable for the issues that will follow and I like others will need clarification on where we stand.
I would also have thought that ISE would have contacted all its agents to firstly let them know what was coming as opposed to finding out by discovering that ISE were unreachable by telephone and that emails have gone without being answered. This is not a criticism of you in anyway Ken or David, far from it, but a reflection of how we have now found ourselves due to the circumstances described and the only reason I have today found this out is that we have been out and attended a ISE 10 websale which it now seems likely we will not get paid for?
As you have had the benefit of being aware of the Legislation regarding liability of these warranties and the benefit of having Carl check the position of the same, can you for speed and clarity provide here the key points that you have referred to as to how we as agents can proceed without being exposed to any consequences some of which Tim has already raised ? We are not lawyers but engineers when all said and done but some useful guidance would I suggest be useful for what I am guessing are worries for many of us who are now contemplating that as far as our ISE customers are concerned that if ISE is unavailable as it seems the insurer is, we as the retailers are the only entity visible to our customers !
As of todays notification are we now to refrain from accepting all ISE service calls which may arise and if so where do we point the customers ????
As I said at the outset this is blow as we have actively promoted ISE over a good number of years and I am indeed sorry it has come to this and sorry for you into the bargain.
I will therefore pass this over to you to respond to Ken
.Re: Hoover VHD 9440-80
Hi Martin
My mistake the model you have identified is the one, thanks
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkRe: Customer warranties on repairs
Or a repair is completed and for 3 or 4 months you hear nothing, then the call comes, You repaired so and so a few weeks back and is gone wrong again! It then transpires that when you check back a few weeks you cannot locate their repair invoice, then you find in point of fact that the original repair was 3 or 4 months back, once you make them aware of this then comes the humdinger, Well since you repaired it is has’nt worked
Seriously would you pay someone to repair an appliance, then discover that having paid them that the appliance did not work, then leave it 3 or 4 months before contacting the company ?I think not and this scenario is common ! when you do get to the repair you then find out that the cause is different from the original fault and repair and then they say, well I dont know why we have to pay again, I mean you said that the machine was worth repairing and I feel mislead !
They hear only what they want to hear, expect you to work for free and supply them with parts for free,
Re: The General Maintenance Co ?
You know robbra thats exactly what I thought, they talk about acceptable photographs being taken, who would I wonder judge what acceptable photographs were and as payment relies on this aspect it could be frought with problems for the company providing the repair service. Also they are basically telling us when they will pay us and as it is they who have approached us asking for work to be done on a deferred payment basis, i.e they want 28 days or more of credit then they have to sign and accept our terms of business not the other way round. Really these companies have little idea other than trying to put conditions on contractors like this.
