DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPENED?

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

lee8 wrote:The engineer would not be the 1st engineer that assumed the clicking was a seized compressor, only to find out afterwards it was the PCB. The clue is indeed in the observations of the client stating the unit worked with the doors open.

If a systems engineer calls, l would expect he is used to misdiagnosis by the non system engineers and would carry our checks & at least fit the PCB 1st and run the appliance whilst he goes to another call and then return to check temps etc.

Or if it the company I’m thinking he’ll fit both as quickly as possible & blame any recalls on the 1st guy.

“Hello lee8”,

Thanks for your reply.

I am obviously hoping that it is the Control Module / PCB that is causing the various malfunctions and that replacing that will solve the problems – and that I will be getting a New Compressor fitted which SHOULD be a good result IF it is a good quality Compressor [?].

The existing Compressor is a Danfoss one – I obviously know Danfoss Heating products and in my opinion they are second only to Honeywell in quality and reliability – can I assume that Danfoss produce good quality Refrigeration Components also – ?

BUT – I doubt whether I will get a Danfoss / Named Manufacturer Compressor – so would I be getting a `Result` by having probably an Unbranded Compressor fitted – replacing my 8 Year old Danfoss Compressor – and obviously the r600 `Re-Gassing` – ?

I would like Your / a few opinions on this Please so that I can decide whether to TRY and suggest that the next Engineer does fit the Control Module first to see IF that does solve the problems.

IF I can influence the Engineer to divert from His Job Sheet [?] I don`t want to Talk myself out of a New Compressor IF it would be a `Result` to have it fitted to my 8 Year old Fridge Freezer ?

Regards,

Chris

[SAMURI]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

I am sure the insurance company will make you an offer and tell you it is BER.

If it is eight years old then you will only get a small amount of money towards a new Appliance in most case’s.

Bob

[Martin]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

I am more than convinced the compressor is not at fault.

By the way …..BER = Beyond Economic Repair (much used Whitegoods phrase)
(If you Google it comes up Bit Error Rate or Building Energy Rating)

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

SAMURI wrote:I am sure the insurance company will make you an offer and tell you it is BER.

If it is eight years old then you will only get a small amount of money towards a new Appliance in most case’s.

Bob

“Hello SAMURI / Bob”,

That is what I am hoping does not happen – the Repair / Engineers visit DAY is `Booked` but this was done at about 17:25 on Friday via whatever Booking process the Engineers use.

I am wondering if this type of very expensive Repair will be Flagged Up to the Admin / `Loss Adjuster` Department during next Week.

IF I am unlucky enough to be a `victim` of a possible Clause about `Beyond Economical Repair` I know that the offer of a Payment / Voucher TOWARDS a New Fridge Freezer would be VERY Small.

IF this does happen I will probably take advice from my Solicitor about not being informed about any Changes to the Terms & Conditions of the Contract when the provider of the Breakdown Cover was changed – just to see where I stand.

I previously had both Breakdown and Accidental Damage Cover – `Engineers Visit within 2 Working Days` – there was the `Repair within 21 Days of first visit or replace the Appliance` but I read this to be in unusual circumstances / when Parts are difficult to obtain and take longer than usual – Words to that effect – probably Impossible to quote / interpret for Legal purposes.

There was never previously a clause about `If the Appliance is deemed Beyond Economical Repair you will be offered a Payment / Voucher TOWARDS purchasing a New Appliance`.

But I have heard about this happening to People which is what brought it to my mind regarding this situation.

I would have been expecting an Engineers visit to `Diagnose` the Malfunctions within about 2 Working Days – some of which would display almost immediately upon turning On the Appliance – the Part[s] Ordered via a phone call or Tablet device and hopefully [Bosch Parts available] an Engineers revisit a couple of Days later to carry out the Repair / fit the required Part[s].

NOT – Request an Engineers visit on the 15th to be told that the Earliest Availability is a WEEK away – the 22nd – then on the 22nd find out that the next Engineers visit will be another WEEK away on the 29th – and still be in doubt whether the replacement of TWO expensive Components WILL `Repair` my Fridge Freezer !

IF NOT – I would not be surprised to find out that there was OVER a WEEK to wait for another Engineer – as I was told that `a Weeks wait is not unusual at all in London` !

As far as the Company is concerned I am without a Fridge Freezer since the 15th August [malfunction on the 7th – turned Off / Defrosted while on a Weeks Holiday] – I will be LUCKY if it is Repaired on the 29th.

Regards,

Chris

[Martin]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

CHRISX wrote:IF this does happen I will probably take advice from my Solicitor about not being informed about any Changes to the Terms & Conditions of the Contract when the provider of the Breakdown Cover was changed – just to see where I stand.

Don’t waste your money in solicitors fees as the ‘standard terms & conditions’ have been well established across the board to all that offer appliance breakdown cover. Sadly (I suspect) you will be offered a goldfish in a bag or a box of party poppers in exchange for your aged fridge.

[lee8]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

This is why, as with any purchase a full understanding of the product is essential. Not all policies are bad, in fact, many customers receive very good service. It’s usually the ones who understand this process that gain the most.

As for solicitors, policies are standard and written using extremely competent people, so your average high St peeps unlikely to find anything. They will likely point out how transparent the contract is, ignorance is no defence in law.

Your terms will detail what will be the outcome if BER is deemed necessary, although this used to be a solution it is nolonger an easy option as since all businesses are under pressure financially a repair even a compressor and PCB is unlikely to cause BER as both can be purchased for less than £70 and pattern, reconditioned parts are options or parts have been previously ordered, paid for but not fitted, essential free.

If the engineer wants to BER, his option would be to monitor the system and deem the system as blocked or leaking internally, both are viable in your case, it’s not unusual for Bosch pipework to corrode internally.

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

Martin wrote:

CHRISX wrote:
IF this does happen I will probably take advice from my Solicitor about not being informed about any Changes to the Terms & Conditions of the Contract when the provider of the Breakdown Cover was changed – just to see where I stand.

Don’t waste your money in solicitors fees as the ‘standard terms & conditions’ have been well established across the board to all that offer appliance breakdown cover. Sadly (I suspect) you will be offered a goldfish in a bag or a box of party poppers in exchange for your aged fridge.

“Hello Martin”,

You seem to have missed my point about Me speaking to my Solicitor even though You have answered my message attaching my quote:

I will be asking whether the Company can retrospectively enact Terms & Conditions that they did not inform Me about – NOT be trying to find any possible `Loopholes` in those terms and Conditions.

There is nothing about `Beyond Economical Repair` in the original Terms and Conditions that I received when I took out the Breakdown and Accidental Damage Cover for my Bosch Fridge Freezer – IF this has been implemented by the `New Breakdown Cover provider` all existing Customers should have been informed and supplied with a copy of those `Revised Terms & Conditions`.

IF I am Legally correct about this I would then contact the Retailer of the Fridge Freezer and inform them that I am NOT willing to have the original Terms & Conditions altered or `New Conditions` imposed upon Me.

My Solicitor is a Friend of 25 Years who would almost certainly advise Me on this as a Favour although He is abroad on Holiday at present – I do Pay Him the appropriate Fees when He acts for Me in other Legal matters.

It is unfortunate for Me that my `Aged Fridge` is in pristine condition and only a Refrigeration Engineer or Refrigeration Appliance Sales Person would be able to identify it as more than a Year or Two old – it would not look `out of place` in any Kitchen where a Freestanding Appliance was appropriate.

I suppose I should be happy that I have gotten 8 Years out of it – buying a New one will not really irritate Me – BUT the Breakdown Cover Company who are directly aligned to the Retailer trying to impose Terms and Conditions that I have never been made aware of is a different matter.

IF they try that I will attempt to Legally Force them to Repair the Appliance – IF that is a viable Legal option.

I believe that Companies changing the Terms and Conditions without informing existing Customers must be legally preventable in this type of situation.

“Sorry for the Rant”.

Regards,

Chris

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

lee8 wrote:This is why, as with any purchase a full understanding of the product is essential. Not all policies are bad, in fact, many customers receive very good service. It’s usually the ones who understand this process that gain the most.

As for solicitors, policies are standard and written using extremely competent people, so your average high St peeps unlikely to find anything. They will likely point out how transparent the contract is, ignorance is no defence in law.

Your terms will detail what will be the outcome if BER is deemed necessary, although this used to be a solution it is nolonger an easy option as since all businesses are under pressure financially a repair even a compressor and PCB is unlikely to cause BER as both can be purchased for less than £70 and pattern, reconditioned parts are options or parts have been previously ordered, paid for but not fitted, essential free.

If the engineer wants to BER, his option would be to monitor the system and deem the system as blocked or leaking internally, both are viable in your case, it’s not unusual for Bosch pipework to corrode internally.

“Hello lee8”,

Thanks for your reply.

Please read what I wrote about asking my Solicitor in my message to Martin – above.

Could You give Me your opinion about what I asked You earlier about whether a New – probably Unbranded Compressor would be better than trying to keep the Original Danfoss Compressor on my Fridge Freezer ?

THIS OBVIOUSLY ONLY APPLIES IF THE `REPAIR` DOES GO AHEAD.

I am serious about the question – I am wondering if having a `Cheap` / Unbranded Compressor fitted – would actually detract from the `Reliability` of my Fridge Freezer because it would be perceived to be a vastly inferior component compared to the existing Danfoss Compressor ?

As I mentioned depending upon the opinions of Yourself and hopefully some other Members I might try asking the Engineer to replace the Control Module first and then check the Appliance operation – before replacing the Compressor.

Thanks.

Regards,

Chris

[lee8]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

As sure as pig’s shiting the changes to your policy would not have happened if there was a possibility they could be challenged.

As for your Danfross compressor there is no reason to replace it unnecessarily, having said that it’s done 8 yrs work, how much further that continues, who knows. They do fail. Due to the size of lok ring joints needed on Danfross comp it’s more likely a Turkish made comp would be used, plus the comp would also be much cheaper option.

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

lee8 wrote:As sure as pig’s shiting the changes to your policy would not have happened if there was a possibility they could be challenged.

As for your Danfross compressor there is no reason to replace it unnecessarily, having said that it’s done 8 yrs work, how much further that continues, who knows. They do fail. Due to the size of lok ring joints needed on Danfross comp it’s more likely a Turkish made comp would be used, plus the comp would also be much cheaper option.

“Thanks lee8”,

My speculating about the possibility of the Breakdown Cover Company stating that my Appliance is `Beyond Economical Repair` has taken up too much of our messages – I have had no indication that this will happen and obviously I hope that it does not.

I found a Bosch `approved part` Compressor which fits my Fridge Freezer Model on Partsmaster – it is £224.00 with Express Delivery – obviously I will NOT be getting one of those !

I will have to see what the Engineer has to say about His colleagues `Diagnosis` and whether He is willing to listen to my descriptions of the Strange Malfunctions that started when I turned the Fridge Freezer back On after an 8 Day Defrost.

I will probably have to resign myself to having the Compressor replaced as well as the Control Module IF He decides that He has to stick to the Repair Jobsheet.

As I would have been prepared to buy a New Fridge Freezer if necessary I will have to look at the Repaired Appliance with an `inexpensive` Compressor as – IF it lasts another Year or so that is O.K. and I will be cancelling the Breakdown Cover in a few Months because it does NOT suit MY requirements for PROMPT REPAIRS!

I am FAR from Naïve about Product Warranties and Breakdown Insurance Cover – BUT where it would be `Inconvenient` to be without a Television or a Washing Machine for 2 or 3 Weeks waiting for a Repair – it is INTOLERABLE to wait that amount of time for a Fridge Freezer Repair especially in Summer – remembering that I am just Lucky to have been able to get the Appliance operating again this Week.

In future the Fridge Freezer that I purchase will obviously have a Year or 2 Year Warranty – I will NOT take out further Breakdown Cover.

I am guessing that an Independent Refrigeration Engineer repairing a Fault on a Fridge Freezer which needed for example a Control Module would be charging about £120.00 for the Part and then the Labour for the Inspection Visit and for the Repair visit – perhaps another £120.00 ?

I would guess that a Compressor replacement would obviously be more than that because of the Degassing / Gas Recovery and the Pipework connections / Re-gassing etc.

I would also have to take time off Work for both Engineer visits and as I am Self Employed this obviously costs Me Money – I am usually working too far from Home to go to work after waiting HOURS for an Engineers visit.

IF this guesstimate is anywhere near correct – plus the Money that I would lose by not being at Work on 2 Days I would be better off buying another Fridge Freezer [it would be less expensive !]- delivered hopefully in a couple of Days.

Regards,

Chris

[Martin]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

CHRISX wrote:Ifound a Bosch `approved part` Compressor which fits my Fridge Freezer Model on Partsmaster – it is £224.00 with Express Delivery – obviously I will NOT be getting one of those !

Then you may be surprised to learn that those same compressors (Danfoss NLX11KK) are available in the trade for as little as £65. They are standard fitment to many other makes of fridge freezers including Hotpoint and Hoover. So even though I suspect the compressor is working OK they may well throw one in for good measure being as they are relatively inexpensive. 😉

[lee8]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

£65 that is expensive, a large outfit could go much lower than that.

[Martin]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

True!

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

Martin wrote:

CHRISX wrote:
Ifound a Bosch `approved part` Compressor which fits my Fridge Freezer Model on Partsmaster – it is £224.00 with Express Delivery – obviously I will NOT be getting one of those !

Then you may be surprised to learn that those same compressors (Danfoss NLX11KK) are available in the trade for as little as £65. They are standard fitment to many other makes of fridge freezers including Hotpoint and Hoover. So even though I suspect the compressor is working OK they may well throw one in for good measure being as they are relatively inexpensive. 😉

“Hello Martin”,

Thanks very much for the information about the Danfoss Compressor – the Partsmaster price is obviously exorbitant – over 3.25 times the Trade price ! [not inc. Express Delivery]

Could You please let Me have a website address where I could find a similar Trade price so that I could take a Screenshot in case I want to argue the point about not having an Unbranded Compressor fitted.

I would speak to the Engineers Office [hopefully] and ask about what Compressor they intend to fit then if I am not happy I would see if I could purchase the Danfoss Compressor and have it Delivered before Friday.

I would really appreciate it if You could help Me with this.

Regards,

Chris

P.S. I am not getting the reply notification Emails from the Forum – do You happen to know if this is something that randomly occurs ?

The `Notify Me when a reply is posted` Box is ticked and has been ever since I started this thread.

[Martin]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

CHRISX wrote:Could You please let Me have a website address where I could find a similar Trade price so that I could take a Screenshot in case I want to argue the point about not having an Unbranded Compressor fitted.

Unless you have a trade account then a website address would not be accessible to you. But as luck would have it I do have a trade account and have taken a screenshot for you from a leading trade supplier (see below):D

[Author]

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