DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPENED?

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

lee8 wrote:I’ve come across very few professional peeps here that agree with any of my comments. I come from a section of the industry that police’s engineers, so some comments l make have caused offence.

The worse mistake people make is to over complicate situations, not helped in clients homes who when asked what is the problem usually start explaining faults several yrs in the past and eventually finish 5 min later.

A refrigerator only requires a few components to function. It’s the interpretation of the clients comments and opinions added to a knowledge of components used to achieve the goal that is key.

You’d be surprised how many engineers lack that knowledge, for various reasons, success is usually due to either previous experience within the brand or a good technical brain. The latter being less likely thanks to UK education policy of previous political inept morons. I actively promote training and industrial regulation of our industry as there is no Whitegoods qualification, so anybody can claim to be an engineer.

Now l duck with anticipation of the usual slagging off l get when l mention this subject.

“Hello again lee8”,

Thanks for your reply.

Although my explanations of the malfunctions are `Detailed` as in my First message in this thread I have not used any more detail than is necessary to describe exactly what occurred.

On this most recent after `Full Defrost` restart the malfunctions were exactly the same as I described in that FIRST message Plus the Heat being produced within the Freezer compartment / Stuck Auto Defrost.

IF You would not mind reading my First message on this thread again and adding the `Heat from Freezer compartment` / Stuck Auto Defrost at about an Hour after the Start Up point [When I noticed it] – what would YOU guess is causing these malfunctions ?

By the way – I am a Heating Engineer – Gas Engineer & Plumber – Fully qualified in all of these Trades having started with an Apprenticeship and I have various Electrical qualifications associated with Gas Appliances and Heating system Controls / Wiring.

And although I am NOT a Boiler / Gas Appliance Repair Engineer I have Installed Hundreds of Gas Appliances and associated Electrical Controls during over 40 Years in these Trades.

I mention this because I am NOT someone who has never dealt with Installing Appliances or with `Faulty Appliances`

I look forward to your reply – Please.

Regards,

Chris

[lee8]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

Read the first comments. PCB is rodgered.

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

lee8 wrote:Read the first comments. PCB is rodgered.

“Hello again lee8”,

Thank You very much for your `diagnosis`.

That is also MY GUESS [as I wrote to Martin] – the `Control Module` needs replacing.

I don`t know what You mean by `Read the first comments` No-one else has even `hazarded a guess` at what might be at fault on my Fridge Freezer.

Thanks again.

Regards,

Chris

[lee8]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

Typo should have wrote l.

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

lee8 wrote:Typo should have wrote l.

Thanks lee8 for letting Me know that.

Regards,

Chris

[ELDAR59]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

Well the 22nd has come and gone, is there only me wanting to know the outcome?

[lee8]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

It’s all I’ve been able to think about.

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

ELDAR59 wrote:Well the 22nd has come and gone, is there only me wanting to know the outcome?

“Hello ELDAR59”,

I saw your message at 02:40 on Sunday morning so please excuse Me for not writing a fully detailed reply now – I will post further details of what happened later Today / mid afternoon.

BUT – it was not `Good News` for Me !

The Fault[s] were `diagnosed` – this was apparently an `Inspection Visit ONLY` – the Repair was never going to be carried out on Friday as `Parts are NOT carried on First Visits` and also the Refrigeration Engineer who called does NOT do `Degassing` [Gas Recovery] / `Regassing` or `Pipework` !

Apparently the appliance needs a new Compressor and a new Control Module.

Because of these points I now have to wait at least another WEEK until Friday 29th without a Fridge Freezer.

I cannot get time to go with my Wife to buy a New Fridge Freezer until Wednesday so that would be no good – If I had known about `No Repair possible on First Visit` when arranging for the Engineer – having to wait a WEEK for that visit – I would have bought a new Fridge Freezer on the 15th / 16th rather than have the inconvenience of 2 WEEKS [at least] without one.

I have a Breakdown and Accidental Damage Insurance Cover with a very large provider for my Fridge Freezer and some other Appliances – I was never aware of this `First Engineers Visit to Inspect ONLY` – `No Parts are ever carried on First Visits` [although I understand about the Parts] – it is totally unacceptable to have to wait ANOTHER WEEK between Engineers visits / Parts available in the London area !

And there is NO Guarantee that the Fridge Freezer will be Repaired on Friday 29th IF there are other Faults – there is a clause in the Contract that `gives` them 21 Days from the First Visit to repair the appliance or replace it:

QUOTE:

`There are occasions when we will not be able to repair your appliance on the first visit` – [THEY WILL NEVER REPAIR ON FIRST VISIT IF PARTS ARE REQUIRED AS FIRST VISITS ARE INSPECTION ONLY !] – `If that happens we undertake to repair your appliance within 21 Days or replace it`.

END OF QUOTE

When I described ALL of the Malfunctions some of the Engineers comments about the appliance operation possibilities were contrary to what I had actually witnessed happening and noted at the time in writing so I hope that His Diagnosis / Parts replacement will encompass the actual Faulty components.

I wanted this to be a brief message because of the time [now 03:00] and the fact that I can only type with one finger – there are a few more details about the `Diagnosis` to add later.

Regards,

Chris

[ELDAR59]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

Thanks for the brief update Chris.

[Martin]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

CHRISX wrote: Apparently the appliance needs a new Compressor and a new Control Module.

“Hello CHRISX”

He has used his ‘Get out of jail FREE card’, a standard quote made by someone who has no clue as to what’s wrong with the appliance. Then quotes the most expensive replacement part items knowing that any right- minded individual would not accept and therefore dispose of the appliance.

One argument you could have raised is to question WHY it would need a new compressor when it, in part at least, is successfully pumping refridgerant through the system? Likewise you may have quizzed the reasoning behind the need for a new module specifically and not the fan or sensors?

I think there’s grounds for a second opinion here or at least to query why TWO components are needed? Could it perhaps be one or the other, not both surely?

Why not ask your local independent refridgeration engineer in to take a look for that all important second opinion. An opportunity many local guys would revel in knowing the previous diagnosis what the standard ‘get out of jail’ tactic.

What’s there to lose, except having to stump up a lot of money on a new fridge freezer unnecessarily? Go on Chris…….:D

[lee8]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

You may also not be aware that some policies when a replacement appliance is required do not state it will be a new appliance either, goes down well the people who insist on a replacement.

[lee8]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

As for the get out of jail, that’s in response to restrictions placed on engineers by people above them making rules without any understand of the job role. 21 days to repair, no parts, no tech info, no product training & if it is the company l suspect then the guy will have very little experience & knowledge.

[Martin]

DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPENED?

lee8 wrote:As for the get out of jail, that’s in response to restrictions placed on engineers by people above them making rules without any understand of the job role.

Is this rather scathing summary directed towards BSH management or your overall generalisation of manufacturers service?

Have you some authority of experience in this chaotic synopsis?

[CHRISX]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

Martin wrote:

CHRISX wrote:
Apparently the appliance needs a new Compressor and a new Control Module.

“Hello CHRISX”

He has used his ‘Get out of jail FREE card’, a standard quote made by someone who has no clue as to what’s wrong with the appliance. Then quotes the most expensive replacement part items knowing that any right- minded individual would not accept and therefore dispose of the appliance.

One argument you could have raised is to question WHY it would need a new compressor when it, in part at least, is successfully pumping refridgerant through the system? Likewise you may have quizzed the reasoning behind the need for a new module specifically and not the fan or sensors?

I think there’s grounds for a second opinion here or at least to query why TWO components are needed? Could it perhaps be one or the other, not both surely?

Why not ask your local independent refridgeration engineer in to take a look for that all important second opinion. An opportunity many local guys would revel in knowing the previous diagnosis what the standard ‘get out of jail’ tactic.

What’s there to lose, except having to stump up a lot of money on a new fridge freezer unnecessarily? Go on Chris…….:D

“Hello Martin”,

Thanks for your message.

I find it slightly amusing that when I was `questioning` what could have been causing the Strange malfunctions on my Fridge Freezer on here that I was told to NOT question the various malfunctioning processes and their relationship to each other as it would be impossible for anyone to `Diagnose` what was at fault from descriptions of the malfunctions – But now You write that I could / should have questioned the Engineers statements about the Compressor and the Control Module.

As You will have judged from my previous questions on here I AM the type of person to ask for further details or question information that does not seem correct to Me – even with my VERY limited `knowledge` of Fridge Freezers and I did question the Engineers statements.

When You read what I asked regarding the Compressor and the Control Module / Stuck Auto Defrost I am sure that my `rational` will NOT be correct from a Refrigeration Engineers point of view but I was asking from what I thought was a `Logical approach` – obviously hindered by my lack of Refrigeration Technical knowledge:

Here is what happened:

I could remember all of the Strange malfunctions and I had written out the sequence of events – similar descriptions to what I posted at the beginning of this thread.

As I started to explain what happened the Engineer turned On the Fridge Freezer and after about 30 seconds the Temperature Settings Display Lights went Off with a Click from behind the Appliance and immediately back On again [as described previously] – the Engineer stopped Me from explaining and stated `The Compressor has gone – the `Click On` noise indicates this` – `You need a new Compressor`.

Because I felt that I KNEW that the Compressor is NOT the `Main Fault` I then told Him that there were other malfunctions that as far as I know are NOT being caused by the Compressor and I explained further about the Heat in the Freezer / Stuck Auto Defrost AND the fact that when I wedged the Freezer Door open the Temperature Settings Display Lights stopped going Off with a loud Click and immediately back On again and I could then get the Fridge Freezer to operate / Cooling both the Fridge Compartment and the Freezer – this meant that the Compressor WAS Working – ?

He stated that this was VERY Strange because the Magnetic Door Switch should have stopped the Freezer [whole appliance ?] from operating when the Door was Open – I assured Him that this was NOT the case with My Fridge Freezer at present – I had left the Freezer Door Open for some HOURS and this was the ONLY way that I could get the Appliance `Working` on a temporary basis – the Freezer Door is then closed at various points to see when the Temperature Settings Lights Stop going Off & On with the loud `Click` – when that happens obviously I leave the Door closed.

He then decided that the Control Module needs to be replaced also.

If I had stopped explaining the series of Strange malfunctions when He stated `It is the Compressor at fault` – or been unable to describe the sequence of events I would now be waiting a WEEK to get a New Compressor fitted which I am SURE would NOT have solved the problems with the Appliance !

I then asked Him `Is it possible that a Sensor malfunction is causing the Control Module to turn the Compressor Off [loud click] and On again multiple times ?` and I mentioned that I thought the Sensors are `buried` within the Insulation somewhere in the Compartment walls.

The Engineer looked into the Freezer and Fridge Compartments to see if there were any visible Sensors – there are not – but He `doubted that a Sensor was at fault`.

At this point I mentioned that I am a Heating Engineer / Gas Engineer and although I am NOT a `Boiler Engineer` I have obviously dealt with Hundreds of Gas Appliances and for the last 20 Years or so they have been getting increasingly `Electronically Complicated` with many more `Parts` than the older `Basic Heat Only Boiler` – I stated that I have very rarely found that a Fault on a Boiler / Gas Appliance has been caused by TWO Major Components failing – as here in the case of my Fridge Freezer.

He could not comment on that.

The Engineer did NOT carry out any Electrical Testing of Components – He `Diagnosed` from the Sound / `Clicks On` made by the Compressor and from My descriptions of other malfunctions – as I have been informed vehemently on here `that cannot be done` !

There is NO COST to Me IF the Compressor and the Control Module are replaced.

I write IF because I am half expecting that I will be contacted and informed that there is a `clause` in the Contract that I am not aware of which states something like: `The Cost of a Repair cannot be more than the price of the appliance at the time of purchase` – and that in these cases the Customer will receive a Voucher TOWARDS the Cost of a New Appliance – amount depending upon the Age of the Appliance which was deemed `Beyond Economical Repair` !

I have seen the Control Module on the Parts Sales section of this website for £63.00 plus P&P – but it is over £100.00 on the Curry`s Partsmaster [?] website and I am guessing that a Compressor & Gas will be much more expensive ? – PLUS I was told by the Engineer about 2 Hours Labour for the Engineer who is qualified to work with Refrigeration Gas [r600 ?] and Install the Compressor and Control Module.

I am sure that this and the `Inspection Visit` will add up to quite a lot of Money – easily approaching or exceeding the Cost of the Fridge Freezer which I think was £350.00 in a Sale – supposedly reduced from £400.00.

In case You or other Members think that I should KNOW the Terms and Conditions of my Appliance Breakdown Cover Insurance – I DID at the time of taking it out BUT without informing Me [or other Customers ?] the Company changed its Breakdown Cover Company and I was never sent any revised Terms & Conditions – I don`t even know what YEAR that occurred.

Because of the `Stuck Auto Defrost` possibly happening again I would NEVER have left the Fridge Freezer operating with no-one at Home – so although I did get the Appliance operating again after the Strange malfunctions I could not leave it working last Week.

I have it working since Friday afternoon and this time because I did not have to `Find out by accident` about wedging the Freezer Door Open `enables` the Appliance to Operate – I had it working / starting to Cool the Compartments [temporarily] within about 20 minutes – I think that it reached the Set Temperatures in about 3 – 4 Hours.

Because of being able to get the Appliance running again I cannot see how the Compressor is the `Main Fault` – luckily I talked the Engineer into specifying that the Control Module is also replaced.

BUT – as You stated Martin fitting these very expensive Components MAY NOT `Repair` my Fridge Freezer IF there is a Sensor Fault !

With regard to getting an Independent Refrigeration Engineer`s opinion – I would obviously do that IF I were going to be Paying for this Repair [I would NOT Pay what this would Cost] but I am NOT.

IF I am going to end up spending ANY Money because of the Fridge Freezer malfunctions [IF I am told what I described above about an `Uneconomical Repair`] I would be buying a New Appliance.

Regards,

Chris

[lee8]

Re: DEFROSTED FRIDGE FREEZER THEN VERY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN

The engineer would not be the 1st engineer that assumed the clicking was a seized compressor, only to find out afterwards it was the PCB. The clue is indeed in the observations of the client stating the unit worked with the doors open.

If a systems engineer calls, l would expect he is used to misdiagnosis by the non system engineers and would carry our checks & at least fit the PCB 1st and run the appliance whilst he goes to another call and then return to check temps etc.

Or if it the company I’m thinking he’ll fit both as quickly as possible & blame any recalls on the 1st guy.

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