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Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
hi jaunty,
I think an earlier post mentioned that ise are in talks with a couple of indepenent companies who will ‘run’ the escrow fund and will inform us (the customers) this information as soon as possible when it is a done deal. It is also mentioned that at present it would be basically impossible for ise to go bust in the mean time as they owe no one anything.
I re-read all post this morning so that i could see who was asking what because of the 2 different types of warranty, as some own a 1606 and others (like myself next thursday) a 1607. Think i have ‘got’ the jist of it all now. I read it as the 1606 owners can obtain their details of their own insurance should they desire and the 1607 owners will know in due course the details of their warrantees as soon as an independent company has been ‘signed up’ with. Is this correct ken?
best wishes
quickwash :plug:
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
Jaunty wrote:Let us assume the parent goes bust taking the subsidiary with it. It may not be set up yet, but I thought the intention was to have these funds ring fenced and the responsibility of an independent third party?
To be honest, I was sorta waiting on that comment or something like it. I woke up the morning, fired up the site and fully expected it.
The thing is, we can play “what if” till the cows come home and, in the end, it accomplishes nothing.
We had a chap on the phone last year that one member of staff will never forget, who asked, “what if ISE goes bust?”.
The answer paraphrased, well the insurance kicks in and you are then covered by the policy in place.
To which the customer asked, “but what if the insurance company goes bust?”
My point being, where do you stop asking “what if”?
We bank with the RBS, did we see them ever going bust three years ago? No, but what if? I did work for AIG, the largest insurer in the world, they’d never go bust, would they?
What if AXA went bust? Where does that leave us, our customers?
We deal with multiple suppliers in the UK, several in the EU, some beyond that, what if they go bust? What if the country they reside in goes bust, like Eire or Greece or Spain or, or, or…
Once you start down that road there’s no end to it and it’s a fools errand in my opinion. Life’s too short to play that game for me personally so I’m not going to play it.
We do the best we can to protect our company, our brands, our reputation and our customers from as many eventualities as we possibly can and we do so in the best manner that we can. We provide the best quality of product and services that we can deliver at the prices set. We can do no more than that.
But, you can’t please all the people all the time and that is a fact, regardless of what you do as an individual or as a business.
K.
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
Jaunty wrote:I guess yours is washing fine?
Yes, but it’s hardly saying anything about a washer expected to last 10+ years 😉 … ours arrived and was installed on the 9th so we’ve only had it (them) a week and a half.
hi mr booth,
I have pretty much stated our position so have nothing more to add to this thread, I will call you today so you can make a decision on whether you want to keep the machine or not.
kind regards
john
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
kwatt wrote:My point being, where do you stop asking “what if”?
Regarding the previous model range …
I think the fundamental issue is that some of your customers took the advertising to mean that, in the event of ISE & UKW going bust, the warranty provided with the machines would still be honoured by the insurance scheme. I suspect that is not the case.
Regarding the current model range …
I think some of the potential purchasers are asking whether the escrow fund would be available to honour warranty repairs in the event of USE and UKW going bust.
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
Kwatt,
Your prior brochure made a big big point of the fact that you had an insurance backed warranty. Have another read of it, in case you’ve forgotten. Now that you don’t have one, do you disagree with all that you previously said?
Yes you can play “what ifs” forever and the financial climate means you never know what is going to happen tomorrow but I only asked as we were told in the second post on this thread by your MD:
“On the advice of our accountant and lawyer we set up an ESCROW style account (similar to a company pension scheme) which we pay in to every time a machine is sold at the same level as we currently pay. We cannot touch this money and it is annually audited to ensure there is more than enough funds to cover our liability if we cease trading.”
If ISE can’t touch it but UKW can, then to me that is not ring fenced, that is all I am saying. We just want proper details of how the fund would be administered and by who. If the answer is UKW then fine but it is not quite how it was presented.
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
No Jaunty, I haven’t forgotten anything.
The reality is that the world has changed since that was written in 2008/9 and we’ve had to adapt with it.
Who said that UKW could have anything to do with this fund other than my comment that UKW could administrate the warranty as it does for other clients? Or another administrator could be appointed? And, again, we’re into “what ifs”.
It looks to me that you are jumping to conclusions I’m afraid and what you see UKW doing online is only a part of the functions it performs as a business. And I cannot really expand on that but, suffice to say that, UKW does administrate and handle other clients service requirements as such service are requested but, again, that is only one small part of what we do.
K.
Jaunty / Ken,
Two points to clarify this;
1. While ISE is trading the system remains as is. ISE funds parts and labour for faults then claims it back from an insurance company. In future the premiums will be paid into a ring-fenced account and claims will be paid back to ISE following the same process. The details are sketchy because we have not got decide exactly which type of scheme we use until the new year as the money for the machines sold by our retailers now (including UKW) will not come to ISE until January. As with the insured system once the premium has been paid the machine the customer receives a guaranteed certificate. As suggested by the customer I spoke to this morning on this subject, at this point we will publish full details of the scheme, the institution it is lodged with and the name of the independent trustees (which we will need to have) on the back of this document.
2. If ISE ceases trading the purchaser/ administrator or the case of the new system the trustees will nominate a third party to allocate service work and distribute spares charging back to the insurer and / or the external fund. While for continuity this would most likely be UKW it could equally be JTM or CDSL or anyone national work provider.Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
Thanks derbyhoppy. I appreciate things can take time and effort to set up. I also appreciate that very few businesses would even think about entering in to discussions like these with their customers, so whilst the circumstances are not ideal I absolutely applaud and respect you for that.
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
hi all,
I am so glad that derbyhopper (MD of ise i may add, imagine that in this day and age!) has explained this (again) very clearly. I now think it is up to the individual as to whether they keep or buy their ise10, as mentioned before i am happy to ‘trust’ in ise as to my guarantee. I can see a lot of advantages with this new way of warranting the machines, but i dont like insurance companies alot in all honesty! I hope i never have to ‘try out’ my guarantee! These are well built machines that are used in industry so problems with domestic users are rare, apart from the mentioned ‘user errors’ of course! :rolls:
Best wishes to all. And happy christmas 😉 Am i the first? The shops make me :haier: how early they stuff their shops with christmas fare! Sorry :offtopic:
quickwash :plug:
Let us not forget that whilst a written guarantee gives a degree of security ultimately it is just a piece of paper. Only time and fate decide its value?
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
I’m sorry, it’s not just a bit of paper. It’s a legal document and the customer has paid money and it forms part of the contract.
The “insurance backed” bit of the original ISE warranty served to allay concerns from consumers that it was indeed just “a bit of paper”.
The insurance backed element means that an insurer underwrites the risk and those insurers are bound by various statutory duties and actions in the events of the insurance company itself falling into trouble.
That said, I’ve today received confirmation of my insurance number from ISE as they said they would do. I’m happy about this and am OK to let things lie, I’d be happier to see a written document from the insurer for the reasons I’ve outlined before but accept this can’t be done for the reasons outlined (that is to say, no such document exists…)
I have to accept that such a thing does not exist, but must now take it on trust that the terms of the insured warranty in the event of ISE going bust is equivalent to that described at purchase (full mechanical and electrical cover excepting silly acts from customers).
The machine has been great so far and I hope I never need to call on the warranty at all! Nothing would make me happier.
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
(EDIT – well unfortunately not able to let lie as yet. The email I received from ISE when studied shows my insurance number but appears to show a 5 year warranty term, not 10 . It also has the words “5 year No BER L&P”. There is likely a simple explanation but I’m afraid the email received does not yet give certainty of a 10 year insurance backed warranty, and indeed appears to add to the confusion showing what appears to be a five year term. I’ve emailed to clarify and will update, I’m sure it’s nothing and I hate to be the persistent annoying toothache here, but I honestly feel the lack of clarity is not of my making (despite many long threads saying ISE cannot be any clearer!)
My only wish is for confirmation that a 10 year insurance backed warranty was purchased when I bought my machine and some written confirmation from the insurer as to the terms of that. It can’t be too much to ask for clarity over this – an email of a number (which appears to demonstrate a 5 year term) is patently not that. I’m increasingly frustrated and disappointed to be honest.
I’m afraid the whole thing is appearing more and more obfuscative. On one hand I feel bad that I’m being so persistent but on the other I cannot, despite reading the thread over, see that I have proof of what I thought I’d bought. (Let’s be honest, and I’ve re-read the thread, no proof of a 10 year INSURANCE BACKED warranty has currently been provided, and any insurance terms are not available to us.
If this is the case then please say so, it’s just not what I thought I bought. I repeat my assertion that it’s not too much to ask.
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
There is a very simple explanation.
The insurer, AXA, did not have have a ten year policy so administratively they had to enter them as five year policies and then add to it thereafter.
What you have been given is the raw data for registration as provided by the broker and insurer.
K.
Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
hi ajsdoc,
I do understand where you are coming from, but surely it is obvious that ise would not be able to promote the machine as an ISE10 with a ten year guarantee if you only have a 5 year warranty, they would have been had up by trade descriptions by now! In all honesty when you think about it ISE, if they had been a company with dubious intent, could have just printed up some fancy card or paperwork just to keep their customers quiet, like others i have seen which when you actually read them says nothing at all to back anything up, so i think we (the customers) are very lucky to get the chance to ask our questions (and actually get them answered) directly to the people behind ise 😀
best wishes to all,
quickwash :plug:
PS Just to make this very clear, i am not saying that anyone on here has said that ise are a company of dubious intent, i am just making a general comment ok. I thought i had better add this as it has been known for people to misinterpert comments made on here. :innocent:
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