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Re: A philosophical viewpoint
Martin wrote:
Now at the low end of the market (Haier for example 😉 ) If it can be put back into full working order for (say?) 75{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} the cost of buying new. That you can fix it in a reasonable time and save the customer the hastle of buying a replacement, removing the old and installing the new etc etc….then what’s the problem with that?The only problem with it is that the vast majority of people would never spend 75{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of the cost on repairing a cheap product. In my experience most won’t even spend 25{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}.
The bottom end of the market does have it’s pitfalls and misgivings but there’s a ready vibrant market at that end of the scale for those that dare to venture. If you offer sales and service at that level you stand to make a killing. Giving your customer the choice of fixing their £200 washer for £150 or supplying a new one for £200 is a win win situation I would imagine?
There’s no money in selling a washing machine at £200. All that hassle delivering it and installing it, then the responsibility if anything goes wrong or if the company goes bust. The only way it’s profitable to sell stuff at £200 is with volume.
Quality engineering is becoming a thing of the past, engineers preferences are being overruled by marketing consultants. Top notch gear replaced by widgets sold in batches of 100 a time.
Isn’t it this kind of thing that’s in part responsible for the shit we are currently in? I believe products will start to return to being made properly and to last a reasonable time. At least that’s what’s needed.
Re: CLOSURE OF HOOVER’S DONCASTER OFFICE
cliveaitken wrote:
However my wife has come home from work today upset as the HR manager has asked her to get me to retract this statment, i do not feel that the statment should be withdrawn as it is just a RUMOUR.
.Sorry, couldn’t resist commenting on this. You can’t say rumours are harmless as they can cause a lot of hurt, distress and even destroy careers or cause banks to collapse. Therefore rumours per sae are not always harmless.
My criteria would be, do you accept it is “just” a rumour and may not be true? If so, could it cause any distress to anyone if it turns out to be false?
On the other hand if I knew it was true I would also believe it was right to publish it 🙂
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
Martin wrote:
A cobbler mends shoes and cares not a jot if they are Loafers or Jimmy Choo’s. To him if they’re fixable he will get on with it and not offer unvoluntary comment as to the owners choice of footware. To him the poorer the build quality the more likely the need for his services.
Not if his repair costs are almost as much as a brand new pair
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
Martin wrote:
Those that deal directly with the public will do well not to deride the product they wish to buy or request to be mended. To openly insult the intelligence of your customer by informing them that they have bought (typical quote) “a load of cr&p” does little to instil lasting relationships between you both. It can often be tantamount almost to criticising their choice of clothing or their odd choice of wallpaper. To stand in someone’s kitchen ready to fix their washing machine and then state that it’s a load of junk will get you nowhere fast and respect right down the tubes. You’re digging a big hole for yourself and no mistake.
Interesting angle. I particularly agree with the above paragraph. There’s nothing wrong with trying to convince the public to buy better, I’ve been doing it for the last 8 years on my site but deriding and dismissing their choices is not a good idea – even though I’ve done it myself.
Re: Miele – resetting error codes issue
kwatt wrote:We didn’t get too much detail Andy, just that it was about five years old, needed a PCB and the chap was told it would cost about £500 to repair by a Miele engineer. More than that I don’t know.
K.
Thanks K, I appreciate that. I might use it, it just seems a little too anecdotal without more detail.
Re: Miele – resetting error codes issue
kwatt wrote:
andy_art_trigg wrote:
Also, K, was that a domestic machine or a commercial one?Domestic.
K.
I’d appreciate more details if possible like exact age and model no? And did it just need a new main pc?
I will write an article about this issue too if I have enough facts. For several years I’ve lauded Miele as the best and whilst still believing they are – but at what cost? – I am very keen to let people know all facts so they can make their own mind up.
I’ve already linked to my Blog article about the apparent restriction of repair trade from all my Washerhelp Miele reviews.
Re: Miele – resetting error codes issue
Thank guys. What I meant was comments on the article to give it weight. I realise on re-reading it might have been ambiguous when I said I’d appreciate some comments.
Also, K, was that a domestic machine or a commercial one?
Re: Servis UK (Antonio Merloni) Bust!?
Is the retailer responsible for manufacturers going bust too?
Re: Servis UK (Antonio Merloni) Bust!?
What are customers to do if they have a Servis faulty under guarantee? A customer just told me when she rings the service number she’s just told they’ve stopped trading but that’s all.
Re: Indesit Moon Error Codes
You are a gentleman and a scholar 🙂 Cheers. Hope you are ok. Are you coming to the meeting in Feb?
Re: Indesit Moon Error Codes
Doh! And I was initially pleased to find this thread on a search for Indesit Moon error codes. Are the Moon error codes the same as the ones in the Fault code guide for EV02 software?
Re: Cowboys still riding the range
You can’t rely on someone in that situation although it’s always possible they are right. I’ve also had people swear blind they’ve never had it repaired and I know I repaired it myself before.
Re: W3922 vs ISE10
Only just found this thread. I’d like to add my comments. As an independent reviewer I’ve reviewed a few Miele washing machines and also the first and second ISE washing machines although they were in a totally different price and quality bracket to the ISE10.
I’ve long recommend Miele washing machines on my site. In fact I praise them very highly indeed. However, on my reviews I always mention the caveat that the fly in the ointment is the Miele spares costs, and the fact that they give little technical support to independent dealers.
Before the ISE10 came along Miele was the only option for anyone in the UK wanting the best made machines. The nearest rival was quite a distance back along the quality scale. There were AEG-Electrolux, Siemens etc. which are mid range quality, but then a great big leap up to Miele.
Now the ISE 10 is here I reckon they are a very viable alternative to Miele. I hope to be reviewing one properly soon although I have examined one at a trade meeting.
My honest opinion is that the ISE 10 is quite close to the build quality of a Miele and better build quality than anything else available other than Miele. On a strict direct build quality comparison the Miele would win because it has a few bits that are clearly higher quality – but are they unnecessarily better quality?
For example, as pointed out earlier in this thread the ISE10 has plastic drum paddles whereas the Miele has stainless steel ones. The point is fair that stainless steel paddles are better quality than plastic, but as Ken pointed out, the advantage of plastic is that they are removable to reach bra wires and other obstructions that could get caught between the outer tub and in the drum. As long as the plastic is of sufficient high-quality (and they are fixed in place so they don’t easily come out) then on balance I think I would agree with Ken that the advantages of a removable drum paddle are a plus point. As far as I know all other manufacturers use plastic drum paddles – although the cheap ones do have problem with them coming out.
At the end of the day I feel the ISE10 is serious competition for Miele and wins hands down on servicing and repair costs. Although I have great respect for Miele washing machines and they do win lots of awards the awards are for design and quality – not how reasonably priced repair costs and spares are. My biggest worry when recommending Miele is that someone struggles to find the money for one but later couldn’t afford to have it repaired because of the premium repair costs. I have started to realise that Miele washing machines can become uneconomical to repair simply because of the price of spares and the fact independent (cheaper) engineers can’t fix them. I now tend agree with Ken that this is almost a bit of a con. What’s the point of having a washer designed to last 20 years if once out of guarantee it can cost £400 – £500 to replace a motor or PCB? Many people would still scrap it if a new one is just a few hundred pounds more (even though I would argue it IS worth investing in the repair because of the sheer quality of the product)
To be fair to Miele the quality is such that most people may not have a problem and they could run for 10 years or more without failing. It’s a close call but Miele spoil themselves with their isolationist and monopoly practices. ISE are the best thing to happen for consumers and repairers in the white goods industry in decades, it’s just most don’t realise it yet.
Re: Advice to hotpoint customers
maltheviking wrote:
kiddo66 wrote:
She asked me for my card!!!!!!! by this time I was loosing it big style so I politely asked her if she would like to put it in writing that Hotpoint now had a policy of discriminating against blind people, she had an engineer out that afternoon 😈 :rolls:
Nice one.
I’m not sure anyone else’s seeing it the way I am. Either this is a genius move which is going to bring a lot more money and work to the manufacturer and take even more money and custom away from the independents. Or it’s a futile move, a desperate attempt to get a bit more money in.
It has to take some custom away from independents because now we have the credit crunch it offers customers the chance to get their washing machine repaired for around £100 instead of having to fork out around £300 for a new one. In normal times most would not think twice about dumping and replacing but in recession as we all know people are more likely to have a repair, even an expensive repair.
Therefore this is a bad thing for the independent trade. If it is successful it could be be copied by other manufacturers so we end up with all washing machines having such cover.
On the other hand if it turns out (as most people here appear to believe) to be a futile exercise with very little people taking it up then it would seem to be a desperate act for desperate times. At the very least it will be a good sales tool though.
My point is that any manufacturer could have done this at any time over the last 20 years. Why now? I can’t help thinking it hasn’t happened before now because it was a stupid idea but why is a stupid idea now desirable or necessary?
