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Re: Calling those who’ve had detergent training
My understanding is that if a house is fitted with a water softener system, it should not be connected to the drinking water supply. This is because the artificially softened water is not recommended for drinking as it’s lacking in important minerals and calcium.
http://www.triangularwave.com/f7.htm
I think in theory the washing machine and dishwasher should be able to be connected to the untreated mains supply used for drinking. It then begs the question what’s the point of installing an expensive water treatment system if you can’t treat drinking water, or the washing machine and dishwasher supply? There’s always the benefits in the bath, shower, imersion heater, sinks etc I suppose.
The whole water treatment issue is a minefield though and full of contradicting opinions.
Re: Calling those who’ve had detergent training
iadom wrote:
andy_art_trigg wrote:
People (mostly men) hate being told not to do something without an explanation why.
Unless it’s the wife telling them. 😥 😆Nah they still hate it – but just do it 😉
Re: Calling those who’ve had detergent training
Cheers Don.
I think the confusion arose because Miele (and others) use phrases like, “…(we) do not recommend connecting the machine to a household water softener” but forget to add the next sentence beginning, “This is because….”
People (mostly men) hate being told not to do something without an explanation why.
Re: Calling those who’ve had detergent training
I don’t have it to hand Martin, but Miele, Siemens, John Lewis all say the same.
Re: Guarantees & Warranties
12 months parts and labour (although some may argue that’s more than reasonable though) If fitting a new part, I feel it should carry the same guarantee as the part would have had when part of a new washing machine.
I also feel it’s reasonable to occasionally give less of a guarantee (6 months) and write it on the invoice when I don’t feel I should carry the can for poorly designed parts. The only thing I used to do this on though if I remember right was Hotpoint drum bearings.
3 months IMO is pathetic.
Re: Washing trainers in washing machines
Just found this. What do you reckon?
http://www.betterware.co.uk/productdetails.aspx?pid=019690&cid=164&language=en-GB
I know the weight’s still there but instead of two loose trainers banging about it may be better to have them in this contraption. I’m thinking more along the lines of “if you must wash ’em in the machine – try one of these”. (at your own risk of course)
Re: Compensation Issue
Hi Martin, I’m tackling your points as I feel in the mood to and have the time 🙂 I don’t mean them to sound as harsh as sometimes written words can appear.
Martin wrote:I love reading and contributing to this most fascinating thread. It certainly is showing the ‘trade’ in a true light I must say.
Some would argue it shows customers on a true light. All I can see is a genuine debait with some saying pay, others saying to insist on looking at the machine.
Martin wrote:
The overwhelming conclusion that the customer is “trying it on”, a “stunt” and and “fishy” motives? Feelings so profound that some would willingly pay £500 to defend a £50 claim to prove the customer wrong or at least win the argument.There is no conclusion at all yet, that’s why the thread lives. There is only a “suspicion†that the customer is trying it on. Being prepared to spend £500 defending the truth rather than paying out £50 is something to be proud of not ashamed of. There aren’t enough people prepared to stand up for principles and their rights.
The “overwhelming conclusion†from yourself appears to be that the original poster is to blame and should compensate, that’s not very balanced.Martin wrote:
Shame on the lot of you then, I hope your ISE customers will not have to suffer through such indignation? God help them 👿I hope they will have to suffer the same indignation if they phone in and claim the new washer has flooded their kitchen but refuse to let anyone come and look at the machine and instead say they’ll be content with £50
Martin wrote:
(You may have noticed that I come from a different school of business acumen that has stood me well in my 34 years of fair trading and the ability to judge fairly and rationally to all my customers.)Many have lasted as long without such a casual approach to paying money out. 😉 I understand your greater point that it may not be worth the hassle (which is what many customers rely on of course) but it’s a bit off to imply the op isn’t carrying out “fair tradingâ€. Fair trading doesn’t mean just bowing to all customer demands. Fair is a two-way street. I would expect that “the ability to judge fairly and rationally†should also be extend to the engineer involved, who is in a better position to judge the situation having dealt with the customer personally.
He’s made a perfectly reasonable (and common sense) request to examine the machine (on a Saturday when the cust wont need to take time off work) in order to try and work out how such an event could have occurred when he “didn’t touch the hosesâ€. Any company that will simply pay money out on demand without getting a chance to examine the product first is either weak or has too much money IMHO.
Re: Washing trainers in washing machines
Interesting about the dryers. I wonder if their washing machines also facilitate trainers, or maybe they assume you’ve washed them elsewhere?
Re: Washing trainers in washing machines
When you put it like that K, it seems much clearer 🙂
I will advise a definite no. I maight solicite “if you know better” responses though.
Re: Compensation Issue
Martin wrote:
In law the customer always wins squadman, if they chose to take the matter elsewhere you will be deemed liable. Therefore I suggest that your customer claim for just £50 is very reasonable indeed. They will be happy with that, your reputation will remain intact – job sorted.Pay up mate and bite your tongue in so doing. :lesson:
Ohh good, that gives me an idea to make some money extorting and threatening small traders. I’ll stick at a sum most people might write off like £50 and just threaten to give them grief, most will pay up me thinks.
I’m not suggesting this situation is definitely a scam, but I would rather pay £500 fighting a just cause than meakly hand over £50 because someone demands it . Personally I think a “reasonable” person wouldn’t dream of demanding a fixed sum and refusing to let the repairer see what happened.
Re: Washing trainers in washing machines
Yes one of my concerns is also the potential damage to the trainers although I suppose that’s their problem. I don’t want to say it’s a no-no just because it’s a new thing and appear out of touch – especially if some manufacturers even have a special wash program for them as implied. Maybe some trainers do have instructions on washing in a washing machine?
As I say, my gut reaction is to say you should never do it, but where do you go for a definititve answer? Other than here??
Re: Do I believe in ISE?
andy2 wrote:
Yes hopefully the customer will retain the machine after year five but this has nothing to do with warranty income it would equally apply to any machine sold as long as the customer was happy with the machine.
Don’t underestimate the power of paying customers to keep a repair business afloat 🙂
I managed for 22 years making my living out of 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} chargeable repairs (mostly on Hoover washing machines). In the good old days, customers bought a washing machine, and didn’t want to replace it for at least 10 – 15 years. When they called me out with a fault, the last thing on their mind was replacing their washing machine (unlike these days). They were helped along with this desire by spare parts at a reasonable price and a good, friendly and reliable repair service offered by me, who had a good access to spares, tech bullitens and tech support (albeit through Hoover’s technical manuals).
One of the things that most excites me about the ISE project, is the desire by K and the UKWG team to bring back these days, when customers could happily keep repairing their washing machine (within reason) for many years instead of having to buy a new one as is often the case these days. The prospect of selling a washing machine, making £80 + £50 to install and deliver, + £50 if it goes wrong + potentially 10 years servicing is something I thought had gone forever. When you take into account the unprecedented tech support that will be available, this is one hell of an opportunity.
PS. I do appreciate the fact that you guys have been willing to allow an open and frank discussion on this, given the investment in time, effort and expense that you have put into this project.
Me too, and actually I appreciate your posts more than you might think. As someone involved so far only on the perifery, but excited and fully behind ISE, I appreciate the opportunity for the project to be prodded, poked and even kicked to see how it stands up. Although I imagine it is not pleasant for the UKWG team, I believe if something is solid enough you can‘t damage it with a few kicks. It may be painful to watch, but ultimately, if you are voicing doubts shared by many more (silent – lurkers) it will benefit all to have them examined.
Re: Compensation Issue
It sounds fishy to me too. I would think they have an obligation to let you inspect the machine at least. A situation where customers can just ring up, claim something has happened, refuse to let you see the machine but request you send a cheque for X amount cannot be acceptable.
