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Re: I should cocoa!
Well yes i would do a basic earth test as a minimum on the examples you have highlighted:-
Freezer- find another socket and there you will find an earth, if neccessary i would plug my extension lead in to it and then you can check that an earth is present on any part of the freezer that is metal and visable, no need to move or even un plugDishwasher- same as above , but you could if you wanted drop the door panel and you would easily find the live, neutral and earth, so again easy to do a basic earth continuity check.
This is the thing with me though, i like to find solutions or reasons why something can be done, not reasons why you cant, thats the repairer in me!
As far as the hob glass goes, as i stated in the begining, visit the appliance to do a proper inspection/quotation.
One thing i do agree on though is that some repairers with all the tools in the box will simply not do it correctly, but they are soon found out.
Again i just think that a basic electrical test should be mandoratory on all repairs carried out, its would benifit both the customer and the repairer, and that can be carried out in all instances, no matter how difficult the appliance is to get out or not.
Just think about all those customers that never tell the truth, like when you turn up and you get the feeling some ones been before and the customer swears blind your the first to look at it. So you carry out a simple repair and on the insulation test you pick up a problem and trace it back to the socket, that unknown to you the customers mate replaced last week and has failed to connect the earth properly, quick fix and you have saved the customer from a possible electrical shock, that is a real scenario and you and your martindale can feel proud about the deed.Lets stop looking for reasons why not, lets find solutions.
Re: I should cocoa!
Peter:-
you are to be comended that you try to ensure all your repairs in customers houses are left to the best of yours and your engineers knowledge electrically safe. Sadly i think you are in a small minority.
I too have switched to a cheeper tester and have found Martindales to be quite reasonable and very easy to use. I use a bigger Martingdale easypat1600 in the workshop and again reasonable cost and easy to use. It is the cost of these things and recallibration costs that deter many from buying them, maybe this is something the WTA could work on in a form of bulk buy? I believe it to be vitally important to at least make sure the appliance has an earth before leaving the house and polarity testing of the outlet socket takes only 5 seconds.
I have found that for those appliances with hidden sockets i use an earth path from another assessible socket to the appliance earth, this at least is a basic test, and then of course you can disconnect the mains filter to perform an insulation test minus the mains lead, but better than nothing.Nothing wrong with the overchage of £7.00 as its not an overcharge as you fitted the part at the customers request and advised accordingly.
Now the hob glass, the insurance company asked you for a quote over the phone so of course you would have advised them that with out seeing it you couldnt confirm weather there was any damage to the elements underneath and quoted for the glass only.
RCD’s and MCB’s can fail and i have had instances of this, they are just as much a victim of manufacturing costs as well as appliances, even if you have an electrician tell you different.
Ken:-
not even going to rise to you with a reply, we will probably never agree on most things. But i can live with that.Re: I should cocoa!
Ken, you wrote the following:-
It is not financially possible to visit every single member, especially in outlying areas, like Northern Ireland or the Outer Hebrides. It is unreasonable to expect every single member to be visited and, to my knowledge, no service association does so, certainly not in this industry due to the costs which the repair industry cannot bear.
I took this to mean that not all members of the WTA have been vetted, so not bollocks. Sorry that you have taken offence.
I dont believe that ensuring members have the basic test equipment is utter tosh at all, i see nothing wrong with ensuring that, most engineers that have it will use it, those that dont just wont bother to get it, my opinion.
Liability insurance i stand corrected, i am glad that you have copies of all members insurance as it is a basic thing that all repairers should have, so I APPOLOGISE FOR IMPLYING THAT SOME MEMBERS DONT HAVE IT.
My opinion is that the WTA should encourage members to have test equipment and to use it, i dont understand why you would be so angry about that. Again i think you have gone over the top with the tone of your reply.
I wish you would practise what you preach and stop gobbing off too, freedom of speech you told me.Lawerence:-
i admire all that everyone involved with the WTA has achieved, i acknoweldge what work has been done, but as yet i see no advantage or benifit of joining, untill that changes i will stay on the outside.
I also think its unfair to challange some one else to do something just because they have questions about what you have done, not every one agrees with these things, one poster on here is against things like gas safe but in my mind that has made the gas industry much safer in this country, just different points of view.As i have already said, i think what you and the others have done so far is a great start to some form of recognition and standards for our profession. WELL DONE
Re: Identifying where a Bosch has come from…
Yes i believe so, but the quality still isnt too bad, it is a repairable machine and of all the ones i have sold, only had one that was troublesome and i replaced it. At least its made in Europe.
Re: I should cocoa!
Martin wrote:
DrDill wrote:
Martin i feel that you are trying to trip me upo and it also feels like you have some motive or secret knowledge of me and my business, if you have something to say why dont you just say it! Looking me up on google, seeing what i am a member of, what you trying to find?I have no ulterior motives or sinister intentions toward you DrDill, nothing further from my mind. No did I look you up on Google. I merely clicked on your own web-link and found that you are a RETRA member. And with that knowledge tried to point out to you that you are a member of a trade association. That you saw good reason for joining, that the benefits of membership suited you and your business. And, for all I know, you may indeed have questioned RETRA council members as to whether there were any rogues (D##kheads) within there midst prior to joining?
My point was that you saw benefit in joining a trade association and that that was entirely your choice. The WTA now has in excess of 100 members, they too made their choice. Intent on abiding by and supporting everything the WTA stands for and upholds. It is highly unlikely therefore that anyone that could in any way, shape of form be euphemistically labelled a D##khead would even know about the WTA let alone think of joining.
Unfortunatley Martin the WTA have not vetted the membership it has,this was confirmed by Ken as unrealistic and i can understand why, therefore you can not make the claim that all the membership abide by the COP (yet to be ratified by the OFT), that is my point, also i am not a member of RETRA so i can say i am a cut above the rest, its the retail benifits that it brings to my business, not really suitable for the many one man bands out there repairing, now the WTA is something you would want to promote membership of, as it says i have the knowledge, test equipment, liability insurance and i abide by a code of practice etc., and therefore i think all the WTA membership should at least proove that they have the minimum test equipment, insurance etc, something the WTA do not know as they havent checked the whole membership. That is my point and i would bet money on the fact that some of the WTA members dont even have liability insurance.
Re: I should cocoa!
Martin, i didnt start with the word d##khead, that was the terminology used by Aidrian, i just took that theme oinwards!! And yes that was petty of me and yes you are right he did go in with two feet, i am guessing that he would probably want to rewrite that.
Also i think you have used a bad example of comparing RETRA and the WTA with each other, you may want to research the benifits afforded to us through RETRA, i think you may want to read the posts and research a little better before you throw in your soundbites!
Yes joining RETRA was my desision and it was done because of the many benifits and not because it gives customers the opinion that it seperates us from others, it dosnt its not that type of assosiation, the WTA in my opinion is designed to give that perception, ie that its members will work to a better standard etc, RETRA is not there for that, it is a subscription assosiation!
Martin i feel that you are trying to trip me upo and it also feels like you have some motive or secret knowledge of me and my business, if you have something to say why dont you just say it! Looking me up on google, seeing what i am a member of, what you trying to find?Re: I should cocoa!
There are over 100, yes but nobody sits and keeps score, it’s not a competition.
The details are published, if you want to count them up, feel free.
The statements above are a bit petty, the point i am trying to make is that you can be a member of the WTA even if you dont comply with any code of practice or if you are a cowboy trader, the WTA in kens words is unable to check on every member so this leaves its membership open to abuse. With other trade bodies,ie Gas Safe(i can hear Kens groans now) you have to prove qualifications before membership.
I Like the idea of the customer contact cards, but i think you have some way to go to convince me to sign up.
Re: I should cocoa!
Its not easy to see how many without actually scrolling through them all, but i guess over 100?
So please tell me how many of these members have been visited by a council member before admitting them as a member, in other words how many did you check to have met the criteria you profess to use to weed out the d##kheads?? How many did you check to see if they have liability insurance, test equipment, uniforms, etc,??? How many of their previous customers did you contact to verify they meet your code of practice???
Is it not the case that the WTA just enrolled members then hope that they all work to the code of practice, and correct me if i am wrong but did you not already have members before the code of practice was ratified and accepted by the office of fair trading??I say the above as when i recieved the enrolment forms it was a case of just filling them out and sending a cheque.
If i remember correctly when i joined DASA many years ago i had to give them previous customer details and copies of liability insurance and some other bits.Re: Identifying where a Bosch has come from…
Generally speaking they will put made in germany if it is built in germany, made in eu if built in oone of their other factories more likely spain
Re: I should cocoa!
washdoctor wrote:
DrDill wrote:
I wonder how many of these “engineers” are members of trade assosiations? Or am i the odd one out?Ahh! DrDill and his hatred for TA’s appears again!
DrDill, let me clarify…
1. WTA Members are bonafide! They are respectable members of our trade.
2. If you know of any WTA member that steals from customers, or does not work safely OR to the WTA COP, please email me adrian.welke@whitegoodstradeassociaion.org and I’ll investigate.
Trade Associations bring out the best in the game DrDill, AFTER finding the d1ckheads that might work to a poor or low standard and weeding them out!
Whether it be the WTA or DASA, do NOT assume that all wrong malpractices are committed by TA Members. The relevant TA will have measures in place, to ensure things like that doesn’t happen, and if it did, again, the relevant TA would have procedures to deal with it.
Adrian.
Adrian, i am a little confused as to where you fit in this thread, and the thread is now taking a different direction, but let me reply:-
1) i dont have a hatred for TA’s at all, its what i want
2) Trade assosiations might bring the best out of some, or indeed the worse in others, show me the research that proves that point
3) i dont assume that all malpractices are carried out by committed TA members and i would like you to tell me where i said that.Your a clever guy Aidrian, the above seams to me like an attack against me, what you have wrote is not what i would expect to see from a leading member of the WTA Council.
I think you need to appologise to me for the above as i feel that you have misread my posts.So now as you have brought up the WTA:-
1) how many members does the WTA have that have paid up?
2) what is this code of practice?
3) How have you weeded out the D##kheads?Re: I should cocoa!
The black van actually says Appliance world on too. Its a bit of an old picture, and i have actually changed the name to KITCHEN KIT LTD as too much confusion with all the other Appliance Worlds. I have also moved into fitted kitchens, so the name sort of fits better with in that.
Website also needs a lot more products adding but its coming along. I also won best Independant dealer from ERT magazine, so we are doing something right. We also get regular visits from Trading Standards who are based 100 yards away, and regular visits from HSE, hence my stance on trying to do everything correctly!
Jonah:- the website cost me £800, as i have to input most of data and pricing etc.
Re: I should cocoa!
gandh1 wrote:thats like 12 mercury ranges, and 200 miele washers and say 100 liebherrs then ??
I dont sell mercurys, sell lots of Stoves ranges, Miele appliances, Liebherr, Neff, Bosch, Smeg, Rangemaster, Smeg, ISE, Baumatic, GE fridges, Elica. And actually that £600k is excluding vat, thats why i am not bothered about repaircare anymore, just fill in jobs if we are in the area installing a Miele with a £200 profit!
My Website :- http://www.kitchenkitsw.com if you want to buy something.
Re: I should cocoa!
Ken I am just talking about the no visit when writing an estimate for use by an insurance company, exactly what I was talking about previosly. And yes the desease needs to be sorted, that’s why I choose to sell quality repairable appliances. As far as he penzance poster goes ihave no dea what he’s on about, he seems to be writing a script for a comedy show!
