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Re: A letigious Society ?
well you know thats exactly my view of the situation, but it does not help when a customer calls up a major energy supplier who tells them that the machine should comply with standards to protect it from power surges and spikes, thus giving the impression to the customer that the machine they have may not be built to such a standard, it further complicates matters when they then call up the manufacturer in this case Bosch and they agree with what the energy supplier has stated.
This as far as I can see is a smoke screen
Re: A letigious Society ?
Lee,
Having a read through those active server pages seems to relate more to RF bound interference than overload tolorence. The ferite copper wound coils / toroidal ferrite chokes are a method of dissapating electromagnetic interference just like ferrite rings used on their own or in combination, many computer cables use that kind of RF reduction and you can see that on some internal mains filter boards inside some machines and microwaves.
On the other hand controlling high level mains spikes & surges requires other kinds of components, most of the PCB boards I see dont have this incorporated in their design, you only have to look at the Hotpoint Interlocks that short and kill the modules ! the frequency of PCBs which are not lacqured and the non sophistication of some manufacturers soldering in a world where other technologies have surface mount techniques etc. Sometimes surges are caused by components within the appliance which might not kill a board but weaken its ability to withstand others, internal fusing or properly designed surge protection on boards in our field seem to be a rarity unless someone knows different.
Companies that specialise in surge protection use semi conductors and the like to provide surge protection. To stop these surges damaging equipment, incorporate semi-conductor devices called Metal Oxide Varistors (MOV) and gas tubes, which act like a variable resistor. When no surges or spikes are present, the MOV allows electricity to flow normally, if a surge is detected the MOV diverts the surge harmlessly to earth.
Have not seen that on the Indesits, Hotpoints or Bosch’s
Re: what to do ?
Thanks Kwatt and Jackel for your help and advice, one way or another I have enough information to conculde this episode, one thing is that the supplier is not very helpful in this case even though we buy a fair few of these from them. That being the case I will bounce this back to the manufacturer on monday telling them that I am happy to meet our obligation through repair with them supplying the parts paid for by them with us supplying the labour FOC. IF they are not happy with that or want to start refunding or replacing the product as they seemed to have already decided then they can get on with it. What rubs me up the wrong way is that we are a centralised business in a highly populated area and have beeen supplying this manufacturers spare parts, consumables and servicing and repairing their products for years, we find that they have another company authorised by them to deal with their warranty repairs who it seems cannot even order spares from them !
A peculiar situtation indeed ! still thats their choice and for them to deal with. The information here is of use to all who retail any kind of product and serves to let us see the wood from the trees.
Have a nice day Guy’s 😀
Re: what to do ?
Well thanks for that Kwatt a very comprehensive explantion of what I was asking, I think that the 28 day period is something that has grown from various retaliers who operate a refund or replacment policy within this period and although Jackel has advised that there is absolutely no basis in law for such a framework this causes confusion to the public and I admit that having myself used this policy i.e that I have had products which have given problems inside the 28 day period and have either received a refund or replacement I was of the opinion that as these larger retailers subscribe to this framework then they would have done their legal homework. So it is then that they operate this system as merely a goodwill policy but do not have to.
The situation of this particular matter are that this customer bought this product nearly a year ago and when they returned it the 12 months was nearly up with about four days to go. We said that we would look at it and having done so we formed the opinion that the product had been forced or dropped, having sold lots of these we came to this conclusion. We explained that we were prepared to repair free of charge but when we tried to obtain the parts they were out of stock, the customer then collected the product and said they would contact the manufacturer, the customer contacted the manufacturer who told them that the parts were not in stock. For some weeks we heard no more until a call came from the manufacturers customer services asking if we would accept an uplift of the faulty product with us either refunding or replacing the product.
When we asked how that would work they said we would have to supply the replacement or refund. We explained that we purchased not directly but via one of our wholesalers. They said we would need to contact the wholesaler and the replacement or refund would need to go via them.
The wholesaler has stated that the manufacturers rep has told them that the customer needs to complete a online form of the manufacturers website who will then direct the customer to a authorised service agent.I now learn that they have done this and this agent cannot repair the goods due to not being able to order spares from the manufacturer due to some account problem ????
The manufacturer now states that the parts are available but as the matter has now been refered to one of their supervisors repair is now not an option or their preferred route to solve the issue.
Whilst not wishing to be atagonistict or obstructive it is not our fault that the manufacturer could not supply the parts to repair the product and nor is it our fault that the manufacturers authorised service agent was prevented from ordering these spares due to internal issues not of our making. I can see that we can either request that as we are responsible in this matter that it is our choice to repair the product now that these spares are available or we could offer a partial refund taking into account the use the customer has had during the last near year, or we could just cut our losses by supplying a replacement at our own cost and getting rid of the bother.
What makes me mad is that the manufacturer has engineered the current framework and they are asking us to assist them solve this matter. Had they have been able to supply the parts at the off or shortly after, this customer would have been content to have us repair the product with the problem stopping there.
If it were’nt for these customers we would’nt have all these problems !! 😉
Re: what to do ?
Kwatt well that then begs the question in the event that a product is returned by a customer or that it fails during the first year what is the point of a manufacturers warranty if at the end of the day it is for the retailer to put right ? the manufacturer or supplier playing no legal part as the contract of sale is jointly between the consumer and retailer ?
Surely during the first 28 days the customer is entitled to either a replacement or full refund after which the warranty provided by the manufacturer takes over, and any warranty claim made by the customer is tested by the retailer to show that the goods were of merchantable quality, after six months the onus then falls to the customer to prove that the goods were not of a merchantable quality ???????
Are we really saying that if one were to purchase a product and it broke after eleven months of use that the retailer is legally bound to offer a refund, partial or full or replace the product ?
I would also say that where a product is replaced during the first year that the consumer will be entitled only to the remainder of the first years warranty in this case that having had this product for eleven months that in the event the product is replaced that they will get one months warranty concluding the 12 months warranty, is this correct ?
Re: what to do ?
Thanks folks, have now spoken with both the manufacturer and our supplier. It appears that our supplier reckons that during the first 28 days the responsibilty is on the retailer i.e. me , after which it falls to the manufacturer and terms of any warranty, mm !
My supplier has advised me that I should refer the customer to the manufacturers website who have an online form whereby the customer can enter thier postcode and the manufacturer will then arrange a repair or replacement.
More to follow !
Re: I`m Assembling My Own Computer – Advice Please
and not forgetting to invest in the latest version of Final Cut !
Re: I`m Assembling My Own Computer – Advice Please
Lerch has a good point about considering a laptop, your office is with you all the time, that said I have built many systems without problem and its a great way of learning about computers. If your intended system is for general office type applications then the job is real easy, if however your considering a system for something like Video Editing, Music or Web Design then the requirements are very different and so is the cost !
Good Luck with it
Re: what to do ?
Jackel,
Thanks for the full interpretation of this matter, as usual your advice if greatly appreciated. You are of course correct that the relationship between our customer and us is different to what the law may say.
I am in contact with the manufacturer and hopefully between them and us we can resolve this situation to the benefit of all concerned. I will report back here as and when we sort this out so that others can observe how this matter has been decided and resolved.
Thanks
Re: Letting Agency jobs, the good the bad and the ugly ??
Letting Agents are just like any other customers in that there are good ones and bad ones ! We have been working with a number of letting agents over the last eight years and apart from two who were far more agro than they were worth we have a stable relationship with a number of them. They all accept our business terms which is that when they place a call with us they pay our labour costs upfront, we go out and access what needs to be done, once we have done that we ring from the site and provide them with the parts costs, they then pay for the parts and the job is concluded, no waiting weeks or months for our money and in return they get a speedy solution to their problem.
For landlords and agencies who will not pay in advance we let them go waste their time ringing round to find some mug who will waste thier time giving them FREE estimates and in the process going through hoops for them, I take the view that we have educated ourselves to the extent that we can circumvent these businesses and let our compeditors take the bother that normally goes with these people.
One letting agent who approched us for work came with the tale that the company that was doing all of their work was unreliable and they needed a company like ours who would be reliable. We found that they were continually supplying wrong keys to properties, late paying and them had the bloody cheek to ask that we lower our labour rate as they reckoned they were giving us plenty of work. Subsenquntly after a short meeting we got shot of them and they began the journey again of trying to get some poor engineer to to accept their terms of work !
Go Figure I say
Re: Mains Power Cut Problem ?
Martin,
Thanks for that and the heads up on that pricing, I did wonder about her contacting the electricty supplier to see if she can get some form of contribution for this, thanks for your assistance. Have a good day !!! 🙂
Re: Mains Power Cut Problem ?
The ENr of this model is WAE24162UK/08 Martin, as regards the cost the boards from Connect are roughly £ 58.00 for the Power module and £ 48.00 for the Other board with the selector buttons on it, so its still a viable repair for my customer I would say.
Re: BOSCH WAE24162UK/08
looking at the schematic there are two PCB boards for this,the power module and the board with the buttons on. As I cannot select any programs i.e pressing the buttons has no effect I am not sure if I should qoute them for both boards as belt and braces. The power module is supplying the PCB with the buttons on beacuse that board is illuminated but I cannot see which board is the culprit !
Martin Have you come across this problem before ?
