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Re: ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty cla
Jackal wrote:We chose to credit insure ISE against them going bust and not being able to settle their liabilities including the warranty they offered going tits up.
Carl may I ask, and for the benefit of interested observers, that your use of the term “we” refers to your own business rather than replying on behalf of ISE Ltd?
ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty claims?
Sorry Martin, yes, “we” refers to my group of customers, not ISE.
I am not nor have I ever been connected to ISE as an employee, director (shadow or otherwise) nor an officer of ISE.
I have provided them ISE (John Hopwood in the main) with advise on legal matters and debt collection in the past.
Re: ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty cla
I didn’t want others to be confused that’s all, thank you for the clarification. 😀
Re: ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty cla
I suppose to credit insure is only a choice when you know such a product exists. Who do you use and what does it cost? Is it per unit?
Thanks for the offer re the winding up order, when it’s your own business then it is personal, you know what my answer is to the offer…
What would be useful, due to extensive knowledge,is to whether we were misled by ISE and also what your stance would be when an ISE customer comes along. Thanks.Re: ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty cla
Tim
I am surprised you didn’t know about credit insurance but your right, if you don’t know about it, it’s difficult to assess.
We use a Lloyds of London syndicate whom we have used for many many years but there are many out there, Dun and Bradstreet et al.
We took two separate lines, a warranty on the product itself, cost was around £15. In the event the unit cannot be repaired it pays out UPTO £1k per product on a sliding scale over the 10 years of the product, thus if we are forced to exchange a product in the first 12 months because it cannot be repaired then we get £1k towards a replacement.
If the unit were in its final year, year ie year 10, then we get £100 towards a replacement.
Now if you use the SoGA then anything 6 years and a day old isn’t covered and no claim to the retailer can be made so it’s a bonus if you offer anything so the worry is always the few under 6 years old.
If you depreciate the appliance equally over 10 years then we should be adequately covered.
We paid this premium on a per product sold and we had to register the model and serial with the scheme underwriter within 28 days of sale. No registration and payment of the premium no cover. Cover could not be retrospectively applied for.
For the claim, we just need confirmation from ISE that the spare is not available to effect a repair and away we go. If course, ISE going bust will also mean we can claim. It matters not that Asko are still available to send parts, as we insured ISE against the problem.
The second part of the insurance covered us against ISE as a company not being able to settle its debts to us (warranty claims) etc.
We either obtain a CCJ for the debt and we are subsequently paid or the debt to us is paid on a recordable insolvency event.
We pay a monthly for this based on the credit limit the insurer sets us and cover is strictly provided up to this limit. We have no choice or voice on the credit limit, the insurer sets it based on credit information available from the public record.
We use a company called Grayson to provide this. I am not giving the premium away as its a group policy covering all our clients.
We stopped undertaking ISE sales and servicing around 2012 because we couldn’t get credit insurance on them because they were not making profit.
We never discussed this with ISE, John or Ken as it was a business decision and at that point we were fully paid up by them. Our internal process is not to offer any client credit above £500 unless we can obtain credit insurance on them.
I fully accept is becomes personal and very emotive when it’s your own business at risk. No one spends years and 1000’s upon 1000’s of pounds building a reputation to have it destroyed in seconds by stuff mainly beyond its control. But that goes the same for ISE too I am afraid.
I have no sympathy whatsoever for the likes of Go Local, ServiceNet and a plethora of others whose mission from the outset is to rip you, me and customers off.
Do I think ISE, Ken, John Hopwood and the others connected to them started off with this intention, no I certainly don’t!
Treading very carefully here, nothing I have seen or read in connection to ISE leads me to believe anyone has been misled by ISE.
What I do think has happened is Ken has been a bit naive in thinking he could trade out the problems caused by Gorenge.
I think he should of called a halt to it last year to be honest but he has tried his hardest to work a way out.
I would ask you to consider this, now you have a potential problem and I reiterate a potential one, would you actively go out to your current 12-15 or so ISE 10 customers and broadcast the issue knowing it’s going to cause you problems you don’t need or want to have, or would you try your best to trade out of it and try to deal with those problems you do actually have?
The problem as I see it for all of us is timing. I really do believe we would be having the same discussion about the same subjects on this, which we are having now, even if Ken had shut ISE last year. We would all still be in the same boat so to speak.
If you are approached by an ISE customer with a problem then firstly we need to look and ascertain if the unit is less than 6 months old or not.
If it is we need to take a cautionary way forward as the customer had additional rights.
If it is more than six months old then we would still look to repair it. ISE’s guarantee when they were still going, wasn’t an all encompassing no matter happens maintenance plan and I would use it to my advantage, blockages not covered, poor loading, not covered, wrong detergent not covered, bra wire noise not covered etc. I would only look at genuine part failures due to faulty materials and or workmanship to be honest.
Where that is a genuine issue, I would seek to obtain the part, from any source I could. Now with that in mind, I would expect very few genuine claims to come my way.
To be honest with you, we are budgeting on round 10 genuine claims over the remaining lives to the appliances we have out there.
Any customer receiving a refund or concession on another product will mean we recover the old ISE which will be stripped to component level and the useable spares from
it made available to other repairs as needed.There is no requirement to use brand new spares to effect a repair.
To my mind spending say £50 on a replacement pump is better than forking out on a replacement machine or refunding the customer.
Tim I know your upset about it all but I hope the above has helped in some small way.
The above is purely my own stance and view on it. As I have previously stated, I am not ISE nor a representative of them nor am I entitled to speak on their behalf.
Re: ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty cla
So basically selling a product with a 10 yr warranty means absolutely nothing if that business packs it in, but pockets that part of the profit.
I think I’ll import a few thousand, give them a 40 yr warranty and pack it in when their sold, genius.
Re: ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty cla
The old saying ” you cannot get blood out of a stone” is apposite here. How many double glazing firms offer 10, 15, 20, or even 25 year warranties only to go out of business a few years later?
Re: ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty cla
Sarcasm becomes you lee8 but inappropriate and seriously misplaced in this thread which has serious connotations.:rolls:
Re: ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty cla
I have no doubt ISE are honest and genuine, it’s just annoying that the outcome no matter what the intention or honesty of the people involved is the same as if their intentions where not. It also leaves a bad taste when it done by people wanting to clean our industry.
ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty claims?
Actually Lee8, your right, any warranty offered is worth less than the paper it’s written on if the company goes bust.
Jim you absolutely right about double glazing firms. Anyone remember Rover going bust, it’s all exactly the same!
Company Law makes provision for entrepreneurs to take risk in setting up business, which I could go on and on about, but without it being the way it is most of us would not have jobs!
Martin, don’t take Lee8’s point as Sarcasm, he is entitled to do exactly as he says, carrying it out is something else completely, obviously the quality and class of client he deals with would purchase such products.
Re: ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty cla
Jackal,
Thanks, your advice does help. If I had of known about the two ways to cover myself I don’t think I would have bothered selling ISE. It was border line anyway as we were only making £100 before tax on the ise10’s.
Do you do cover other products this way?Re: ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty cla
Martin wrote:Sarcasm becomes you lee8 but inappropriate and seriously misplaced in this thread which has serious connotations.:rolls:
Oh shut up.
Re: ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty cla
Tim
That’s the problem with doing it our way, it erodes the margins making us uncompetitive to those that chose to take the risk of no cover.
If the current problem hadn’t of occurred and ISE were doing well, I presume you would have been happy.
The other thing to bear in mind with our way is to a large degree, our destiny is not always in our hands. Credit limits are set by others so it doesn’t matter who the client is if they reach that limit we will stop have to stop working with them.
We do lots and lots of work with Holiday parks, Universities and Hospitals. We supply to student accommodation for example a complete set of kitchen kit, so Microwave, Hob, Cooker, Fridge, Freezer Washer and Flat Screen TV. We use whatever brand will sell to us at the right price for that deal, We have Baumatic, Hoover, Amica, AEG and Indesit product out there and we do the same insurance for it all.
When Servis Merloni were in business we had around 15k product out there at one point and without that insurance we would have been well and truly buggered.
Re: ISE Appliances cease trading-who deals with warranty cla
Jackal wrote:Actually Lee8, your right, any warranty offered is worth less than the paper it’s written on if the company goes bust.
Jim you absolutely right about double glazing firms. Anyone remember Rover going bust, it’s all exactly the same!
Company Law makes provision for entrepreneurs to take risk in setting up business, which I could go on and on about, but without it being the way it is most of us would not have jobs!
Martin, don’t take Lee8’s point as Sarcasm, he is entitled to do exactly as he says, carrying it out is something else completely, obviously the quality and class of client he deals with would purchase such products.
I’m not in the industry in that way. I have no clients of my own.
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