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Just one other thought that sprang to mind, even after all that how many of us actually have the capacity, right now, to take on any volume work at all? That is very important and I don’t think that many of us actually have guys sitting about waiting on the phone to ring. So, they either come up with a deal that makes you prepared to switch allegiences or valuable enough to actually go out and get badies to do the work, either way the deal has to be good.
K.
Re: Merloni
Yes Alex I do see where you’re coming from and appreciate the sentiment, but let’s consider the Merloni situation.
They cannot use many of the WPs
They cannot use another manufacturer
They may well not be able to use CDSL
They cannot go back to the agents they shit on, like yourself
They cannot get engineers to bolster their own workforce
So what options have they actually got? How many of us saying “no” would it actually take to turn the tide and make an independent network untenable?
To answer question one, not a lot.
To answer question two, ditto. It actually takes surprisingly few of us to actually pull a network to its knees these days, especially where they require multi-skillset and businesses that can cope and know how to cope with volume work such as this.
Look around, there’s probably quite a few single man operators out there, but companies with pukka insurance, multi-skilled engineers, manned offices and the IT etc to do this sort of work? In almost any given area you’ll be lucky if there’s a handful these days and that’s in high density population areas. Go outside the cities and the options whittle down even further.
There was once a plan hatched to get 12 NESN agents to go on “strike”, it didn’t happen, but when you looked at a map had they done so NESN had no choice but to capitulate as without just those 12, they were screwed with no cover from Bath to Glasgow just about.
Quite simply there aren’t enough of us out there to go around.
Now I do think that we have the power to set a standard, we won’t reach everyone, that’s a fact. But if we all agree on set of conditions the chances are that they would have to go some way to appeasing us in order to get a network of any real import setup.
I mean, just look at middle England, a high density area. Kevin, Phil, Phil K and Jason between them basically cover that area, yes there are some others but not with the skills and coverage. Devon there’s you, Dave and Dave Jones, pretty much that’s it! There’s just two huge holes in any network before you even go into the more public trade forums.
K.
Re: Merloni
Sod it, vodka, popcorn and “24” doing my head in.
Now this is a big WHAT IF but, what if we can get enough people to sign onto acting as a “buying group” , after all there are buying groups in all sorts of areas, is there any difference in what we do? I don’t think so, therefore we’re not breaking any laws.
So what if we negotiate deals on behalf of the trade as a whole? It’s not really that far fetched really, I mean, as a group we virtually set the standard as it stands so this is merely an extension to that ideal.
I am not talking about unionisation, that would be a total falacy to pursue IMHO and inevitably counterproductive into the bargain as it would lead to unrest from some, so not a good idea. But if we were to try to enlist key people in key areas and stand fast for certain conditions to be met I think that we could, if not win outright, certainly make a huge difference.
I dunno, knock the idea about as with what I’ve tried to put in place here with the lead directors of UKW, the War Room Staff and the Advisory Council I think we have the aparatus to do it, but have we the will to do so?
In the end for me it comes down to this, I want to firstly protect my people and by default my liviliehood, then the rest of the guys out there, although that line is very blurred for me as I strongly believe that by protecting my own I also protect others, so for me the choice on what to do is simple. The more protection I can build in for my own the stronger my business is, by way of doing that I have to also build that protection in for others as well and I cannot do that alone. But if it is the consensus that we should proceed down that path I will gladly take it.
K.
Cobourg,
It could be the thermostat or a couple of other things as, in my experience, most Husqvarna machines were dual compressor machines. In essence that means that the fridge and freezer work virtually totally independent of one another.
If you’re unsure it may be best to get it checked out professionally.
K.
Yeah Seamy, it has a cap on it, no value given and it’s mounted to the top right of the motor from the front.
K.
Andreas,
I would say that spending £105 on a drum for a Servis was a bit of a false economy. Assuming you’ve had a year or two out it and the bearings have failed, the model was introduced in 1998 from what I can gather and cost about £250, then in all honesty you’d be better advised to replacing the machine.
The new Servis stuff since the name was taken over by Antonio Merloni, without being rude, is not the best shall we say. 😉
K.
Re: Merloni
As stated by Alex on th eHotpoint thread, OEM service is crap, has been for awhile now and it’s a trend that looks set to continue for the foreseeable future.
There’s room there for us to profit by that I think, but it will take some time to address the issues given that, if they won’t invest in their own infrastructure, what makes you think they’d invest in ours?
Time and time again it has been demonstrated that poor service affects sales, it’s a simple link and the two are symbiotic, without one the other starves. Where we’re at now is that sales has gained too much control throughout the entire industry with little or no regard to aftersales service or the retention of customers. Electrolux, to their credit, learned that very quickly after the debacle with the Zanussi agents and are still paying for it to some degree (AIUI politically) with the loss of the DSG work to CDSL. Others such as Merloni, Whirlpool and GIAS have yet to learn the lessons from that history.
We’ll see.
K.
If any of us offered those sorts of lead times I doubt we’d be retaining many customers, corporate or end-user. 😕
Just shows you though, what’s good for the goose isn’t always good for the gander. 😉
K.
The very best with whatever you chose to do Jeff but please keep in touch.
It’s sad that you left Hotpoint/Merloni due to the conditions there and can’t make it pay out there working for yourself. 🙁
K.
Re: Merloni
Whilst who pulled the plug on NESN or Merloni is interesting, it is pretty much irrelevant from where I sit. Personally I don’t give a shit, fact is that we and the other guys didn’t get shafted again and I regard that as a result in itself. However the situation is further improved by the fact that Merloni are now really out of options.
To get any work done outside their own employed labour force they will have but two real options, go direct and lose face as they would have to offer decent money and capitulate on the spares issue, or use CDSL. I say CDSL as there’s none of the others out there that have the spares logistics setup to deal with something this size or the finances in place. Using another manufacturer is just beyond the pale for the Italians so that option’s out, the Italians would freak if it were even mooted I suspect.
Now, CDSL will hold them to an, at least, two year deal and wrap up the spares side as well, or that will be their goal at least and they’ll be looking to pay the troops £37-40 I should think with an increase on gas and other bits and bobs. Funnily enough you’ll note that the rate that NESN was paying was the same as CDSL more or less, I wonder why? 😉
CDSL will also insist on full technical support and backup as they know as well as we that without that this contract would fail and they’d get tarred with the NESN brush, so it has to be right.
However, I don’t think that forcing the work back to CDSL or any other WP will actually help in forcing the rate up all that much, we’ve pretty much done that already but now we have to raise the bar. If NESN were prepared to pay £37 & £50 then we should be looking for that at least direct with another £1 or so on top as they’re not paying a third party to boot.
ISDAL don’t want it, British Gas would want £70 plus a call, JTM and Servicenet couldn’t cope with it, NESN are already screwed and out the frame so there’s nowhere left for Merloni to go frankly. Additionally we’ve already put the skids under the franchise idea and probably done a fair old bit of damage to the NESN plan and they can’t get more engineers so basically, they’re screwed.
So that leaves us, the independents, to pick up the pieces and, irrespective of what path Merloni take now with regard to service, it’s going to cost them dearly. That I don’t think is in any doubt at all, the pertinent question is, how much will they pay and how badly do they want bailed out?
They may just be desperate enough to talk sense and, personally, I don’t think that this work should go through a WP, I think you need the support that only a manufacturer can give. But if the deal’s not right or secure enough then walking away and leaving them to fend for themselves would be my chosen course of action.
Things we should be looking for are…
2 year contract with a review at 18 months.
Annual rate review to rise at “at least” the headline rate of inflation
Technical information CD/DVD provided FOC
Van livery provided FOC
Contribution towards workwear
Sponsorship (to an extent) of CORGI training costs
Initial stock on 12 months sale or return, with no quibbles, payable over 6 months thereafter
Projected call levels and the guarantee that it wil not fall below a pre-set level
Clean stock returns system, authorised by a area service managerNow, I know that that lot may seem like wishful thinking, but have you ever asked for it? We had all that in place under the Zanussi regime, why can these pillocks not do it as well? That level of support can only be offered directly by the manufacturer, it could not (I don’t think) be done through a WP or if it were it would be horrendously expensive to maintain. Remember, this is volume work for a manufacturer not some Mickey Mouse operation and the level of support to give that manufacturer the loyalty that he wants has to be right.
It is time that we brought these people into the real world and, should they not wish to play ball then fine, let them limp along or pay the rates and suffer the terms imposed by the WP’s.
K.
Re: Merloni
Excellent! 😀
I love it. Soon enough I don’t honestly think that they’ll have much option but to give in and capitulate to some degree.
We’ll see, it’s all politics now.
K.
Too early to tell as yet methinks. It took nearly 6 months for the trade forums to get any traffic. 😕
K.
There is probably no such thing as a manual, even we generally don’t see them. Wiring diagrams are almost impossible to get and certainly not in the public domain.
But if you pull the dryer out, look for a little red button on the rear and press it, that’s it reset. 😉
K.
Re: Merloni
Here’s my take on some of this for you…
If I wanted to expand the business, even by one engineer, then I have costs to face in training the guy, getting him a van which will be on a three year deal at best and stocking that van out.
Fag packet calculation states that that will cost in the order of £5-7K plus the ongoing costs of salary and the van etc. Now, even if that guy completes 40 calls a week making £7 a call the payback time is roughly about 18 weeks at full capacity not including the ongoing costs of running the engineer which would stretch that out considerably.
That in itself is not so much the problem, the problem is when you have to get rid of them as the work leaves. This I KNOW is an issue and the very reason that LGS closed its doors. Has we been able to cut back the staff then we could have weathered the storm, but to get rid of staff is a very expensive business without gross misconduct and still you have the ongoing costs of the van and then the stock which will no doubt be non-returnable.
Let me shed some light on that last bit, in LGS when we closed it, we had in excess of £100K’s worth of stock at cost value. In the end it was valued at less than 10{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of that figure as spares are only worth something if someone wants them. Finished goods have a far better chance of being sold on, spares you have no chance so whatever value you think you have on the shelves is, in actual fact when it comes to the bit, worthless.
So you have a contract with a 3 month termination, a low profit margin and stock you’ve had to pay for that is worth Jack Shit. Still sounding like a good deal?
When you take on a “franchise” or “agency” in other businesses you have a designated area of operation, back up through advertising campaigns, guarantees that no-one else can sell the same product in your areas and signwriting/uniforms provided free or at a massively reduced cost. Look at Dyno-Rod or any similar type operation, but they charge mega-bucks and in that line of work can afford to, we cannot.
So, how do you solve that problem?
Easy.
We accept that we cannot be paid at those kinds of levels, the industry does not allow for it frankly and therefore we accept the reduced labour rates that we get and the zero up-front costs on obtaining the agency. However, training and promotional materials as well as support to promote the business should be provided at little or no cost to us, just as is done partly by the likes of Service Force.
This does two things, it cements that the business approaching us to work on their behalf are committed to supporting us and are committed to the notion of using a third party agent as well as not being able to switch agents on a whim. It forces the manufacturer or WP to commit financial resources into building a loyal network of repairers that will in turn support them properly and look after their customers, so they gain as well.
For a major manufacturer this is not an issue and should actually be a matter of course. Currently it is not as we all know, we have to change that way of thinking and get ourselves a better deal and secure our futures.
As you can see, this is easily achievable without burning any bridges at all, but if the likes of Merloni do approach you, you can now see the sorts of things that you should be asking for in addition to a rate that makes it worth doing but also securing the work for some time. It is easy enough to look at the figures and simply state that you’re sorry but you cannot make it work based on the deal on the table but if things change please come back to me. I have done this and will continue to do so and continue to pick the cream of the work thank you very much.
After all, if they ask us to commit and take risks to service the contract why the hell should we accept that with no risk or commitment from them as we have been doing? By taking a mealy-mouthed approach as you suggest Jason (no offence intended) and not stating your case only serves to perpetuate this situation that we’re all in now. It really is very simple, we set standards that they have to reach or we don’t do it or commit OUR MONEY, time and resources to it. Why should we with nothing in return?
Right now and, for the past nearly two decades our predecessors have allowed these twats to get away with this shit, we need to change it. But it was a different world back then, things have changed and we need to change with them in order to survive beyond the next few years and this is vital IMHO.
See, there are ways to do this and quite easily as well, we just need to work together towards some common goals.
K.
