[simonb]

Re: 2 hotpoint wd 51’s

thanks for reply martin have come across interlock faults before on these but normally the machine is dead to go with it? and i think the track for interlock is different as wires it feeds go streight down to lock and not pressure switch normally?

simon

[simonb]

Re: hotpoint wm76s

thanks martin changed door seal few days back as found hole and machine seems to ok now

simon

[simonb]

Re: Raw washers

I gave up a while back trying to find raw washers the only people i found wanted 25-30 quid upwards for a bag of crap i know of a few government backed initiatives for re-cycling in partnership with retails who take old appliance away one called create in liverpool not to sure if they have any in other parts of county i know remploy does this now as well

i found the main problem was the middleman was taking the cream of the crop and then recon. them and then selling on the rest found 1 or 2 down south who were more resonable with prices but when worked out how much transport was and overheads etc it wasent worth it

simon

[simonb]

Re: Earth Loop Impedence Test Equipment

hi again

i know thread has changed again but went out to hotpoint machine late wm did a repair on machine and insulation was at 250k turned out to be motor as normaly is

as a matter of interest did a few calaculations maybe someone can shine a light on this

the earth leakage on this machine would be(working on 230/250000)

0.00092 amps – this would be present on all metal parts of machine traveling through earth connector to plug top and then on to neutral (most urban houses use neutral as earth return)

and lethal shock level i believe is between 5 and 30 (0.0030) milliamps depending on bodys resistance to current and other factors at time of shock

this is where my electrical knowlege gets stressed!
i know if you get a dead short the fuse on plug top will blow outright fast but when will it blow with low-insulation in theory anything less that 17 ohms will exceed 13 amps and i know depending on fuse capabilities on over current this should blow around this ohm level.(when would rcd pick up on fault?)

basically what im getting at is iv had a lot of machines that are less than 1 meg i always go on the side of caution but sometimes loose the job as customer wont pay for new motor etc.which is a sickner

if you can pinpoint the low insulation fault to a componant ie. motor and not wiring are you pretty safe at a given value less than 1 meg (but i know this is an indication of problems to come) if earth loop test checks out ok.whats the worst that can happen the fuse will blow??

any comments

simon

[simonb]

Re: Earth Loop Impedence Test Equipment

thanks for reply mate,

just to add in iee code of inhouse repair and inspection of electrical equipment (think or appliances) it does actually say somewhere that all tests must include a full visual inspection of appliance i think this cannot be fulfilled realistically ie. i know most engineers that work on contract of for manufacturer or even self-employed some days go out with 10-12 or more jobs daily that mean in and out of the house as quick as you can or your not getting home for tea tonight !

so were is the blame? if i could take a decent fee of each repair maybe i could spend longer on job carrying out a full inspection and test as is the legal requirement.

so many customers say well we went to bed and in the morning it was still going round tumble dryers, washers the lot

i know i wouldn’t, alot of responsibility i think for tuppence!

buy the way how to you get them fancy pictures up on left hand side think ill get one of cowboy! howde!

simonb

[simonb]

Re: Earth Loop Impedence Test Equipment

thanks for reply mate, agree with everything you said did not know that minimum was 0.25meg for complete installation, as a matter of interest is this reading taken from consumer unit main earth to live and neutral? and does this reading take into account of appliances switched on or off on ring or cooker circuit?

anyway if you repair an appliance i think we should just be responsible for just the appliance as if customer buys new and installs appliance, ie plug it in the manufacturer is not responsible for the dodgy socket that may be wired up wrong? although personally i check.

i honestly think that repairing appliances is a dodgy game to be in although i now its probably unusual for something to go drastlically wrong,
who can honestly say they check every single wire on an appliance after repair, i used to refurbish in factory and strip right down to check, like on hotpoint wm take front off and check wiring and have seen some right dodgy wiring jobs, so if you just fit brushes whos to know whats bodged elsewhere

and who is responsible if something happens – the engineer who was last on job i am led to believe(grey area?) yes?

u take your car to garage to have a new starter motor fitted and the brakes go and you crash who is to blame? the driver for not having them serviced?

u have a new motor fitted to your tumble dryer and the thing goes up in smoke due to another problem a day later who is to blame? the engineer?

simon

[simonb]

Re: Indesit/Ariston “test plug”

i cannot remember, only ever used it in training and only were given 2 sheets of paper with it, to be honest the trainer did not know much about them either, when i eventualy went out on the road i never plugged it in because i did not have enough time to mess about with it as was quicker to fit a new eprom or board than to run through test

if i remember i may be wrong but it sends the machine through the routine of fill cold,fill hot, wash heat, dryer fan plus heat, drain etc in 5 sec bursts, i think again could be wrong lets say you disconnect the motor plug it will fill hot, cold, and when gets to drum action then throw up fault code i dont think we were given different fault codes.

the way i work with these machines is by

if it throws up a fault code, check code, check componant if ok change board or first eprom(or even take out eprom chuck it around the floor (must take out using special chop sticks as per merloni) put back in and sometimes works.most times correct(ie board throws out bull**it fault code, if the boards not well it sometimes blames it on the heater or thermistor or something else or it gets a bit damp and starts windging

the other one with these if no fault code! machine wont work, this is not always the board sometimes the brushes

also with these machines check all connections to everything it heater, to board to slave, interlock etc.i get the top and back off these machines everytime to check everthing

i have a list of fault codes given on same day but use them to compare the flashes from machine not test plug

best advice is have a play about with it on a machine by removing wires of componants etc and putting it through test see what it comes up with

simon

[simonb]

Re: When appliances quit, most of us don’t call a repairman

just read this thread with interest, i think the trend was started by a few factors

1. electronics (look inside its all plastic and a circuit boards) not so long ago it was like spagetii junction

2. credit (go to comet,currys with plastic or on finance)

3. price war with manufacturers because of cheaper mass production

4. who cares if buy british anymore

[simonb]

Re: Earth Loop Impedence Test Equipment

just chipping in was looking through a list of testers from martindale they have a new socket tester(plug in) like the usual 3 lights but with a built in earth loop test(soft test no trip rcd) will fault path and with yes or no.

seems like a good compromise as i know of a lot of engineers who dont do earth loop test just plug and go.

on the subject does it really matter what the insulation reading is on appliance as long as theres a good earth 0.1 ohms i mean if its very low lets say 250k ie quarter of meg you know the things gona go bang soon. the legal requirement is 1 meg so what if its 1 meg now you pass it in few months its going to be below that anyway, on some machines with computer control/electronic switching is by triac so you dont get a reading from plug to componant(this is not covered by iee, not what iv read anyway) sometimes you get through on the neutral if switching is on live.
although if machine is next to sink i always check to see if sink is a same potential as appliance earth!

funny thing when i started at merloni a asked an engineer who had worked there from 20 years did he use a mega his reply was whats that a new thing they have brought out? im not to sure if he was on a wind up?all engineers at the time did not use one in my area and were not using one only when they bought big share of gda did they began to get issued with one.

[simonb]

Re: Indesit/Ariston “test plug”

found instructions, sent friday pm recorded

if anyone wants copy of merloni disc will send, dated 1.10.02 it took me a while to get the thing working on a norm pc as its checks to see if its on engineers laptop! the only reason i did this is because when i started at merloni they gave me zero training on laptop pc so had a play about with it first on my own first also has some tech memos on to print off

also have old hotpoint disc that still works

simon

[simonb]

Re: Indesit/Ariston “test plug”

no problem, lost instructions but am sure there on my old merloni disc, i’ll send it as soon as a find instructions, you will need to practice on a machine first as it took me a few attempts at first.

[simonb]

Re: advertising

thanks everyone for replying, i presently advertise free callout & estimates but only go to the jobs were i think i have a good chance of leaving with money(i ask a lot of questions)

that brings me to another point, honesty??!!

i work in a bit of a moody area if i could put it like that, if i was completly honest i dont think i would make a living, i had to learn this quickly i dont mean telling big fat lies and ripping people off because i know there out there.

ie. what do you do when you turn up to a machine that has a blocked filter or a penny in the pump.i dont know about other peoples opinion but if you just remove an obstruction from a pump(20 min job) and say ‘that will be 45 pound please madam’ its a bit much? i mean i dont care but im sure the cust. will think she’s been overcharged but if you replace pump and say same its prob. going to look reasonable? yet really he old one in most cases is ok?

ever been to a job and its just a wire off?

unless your a plumber in london and you probably charge 45 pound to answer the phone.

so can you be totaly honest and still make a living?

[simonb]

Re: Indesit/Ariston “test plug”

hi new to forum, i dont know how it work but might be a bit late with reply

i have one of these test plugs keep it in my toolbox, looks good in there getting a bit dusty now never used it but what it does is basically runs the machine through a test procedure ie wash, heat, spin etc(think) i got one when i used to work for merloni was sent to hotpoint in n.wales for 1 week training were we all were issued with one to be honest there not much cop ok for the fact that these machines like many others now throw up a crap fault code and wont let the engineer test machine like on manual timer were you can manually advance and check so it does a quick sequence of tests even if fault code present.

if you want i’ll sent it you but im sure it will be back in the post sharpish!

simon

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