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Re: Approved Electrical Connections
Seems to be 1 of their favourites that, the appliance is not fitted with it’s original moulded plug so Guarantee is void. They must save a packet on this over a year.
Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
Then lets hope in this example you don’t receive a bill from the home owner who had a qualified Electrician with the correct equipment, accurately calibrated and fit for purpose who carried out the required testing and found that the whole house was indeed earthed and didn’t require your actions that are not required by law.I said conversation over but i’d just point out this bit of your reply. That’s not general in any form, it’s quite specific.
Re: Approved Electrical Connections
Hi Squadman: Seems like a good call mate to be honest, did they state the reason for not working on the appliance ? around here they seem to use any excuse possible to deny warranty repairs.
Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
Just hold up a second Lee, who the hell do you think you are to tell me that i’m not trained or qualified to do my job ? If you actually bothered to read all of the posts on this topic you’d know that yes i am well Trained & Qualified to do my job. You’d also know that the equipment I use is suitable for the job & designed specifically for the purpose of Electrical Installation testing. The Martindale plug just being a quick test used as an indicator of any faults maybe you’d like to contact Martindale Electric & inform them that in your esteemed opinion the equipment they make is not suitable for it’s intended purpose ?. Think this conversation is over.
Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
So because there’s no statutory requirement then we should’nt do it ? so why bother with any sort of safety testing at all ?
There’s no stautory requirement to do an Earth continuity test or Insulation test either but we still do them. You carry a lot of test equipment & use it on every call, is that choice or because your employer says you have to ?As for there being a cost to me for the equipment & yearly calibration, Training etc. The Test equipment i’d have anyway it’s not specifically for use in Domestic repairs, it’s a Requirement for Commercial / Industrial sites. Calibration the same but even if it was’nt then it would’nt even equate to pennies per job, what training are you talking about ? if you mean to use the test equipment then that costs nothing.
You say that Until everybody is on the same page, regulated & enforced then i’ve achieved nothing. On the contrary i’ve ensured that as far as possible i’m safe when working on a machine & that when I leave the appliance then as far as possible I have ensured the customers safety if anything goes wrong & covered myself. It might not be a Legal requirement but from my point of view it’s a nescessary & moral requirement, there’s no way will I ever leave an appliance in an unsafe condition. Whether that be due to a Faulty Earth on the appliance itself or the customers wiring, if there’s a problem with the customers Electrics then I give them written notice of the fact which I ask them to sign for. If they decide not to have the problems sorted either by myself or another sparky then I walk away from the appliance repair. As for everyone being on the same page well that may never happen but it won’t stop me doing the tests & as far as possible ensuring my own & my customers safety.
Just a thought: You say you use the test equipment due to the nature of your job, why is the nature of your job any different to ours ?Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
lee8 wrote:
Specialist01269 wrote:
Turns out that all of the Downstairs sockets are the same, only thing wired properly & with a good Earth is the Cooker outlet.“Just goes to show as well what a waste of time it is.”
Ok Lee, that’s your opinion & your entitled to it. At the end of the day as far as myself and others are concerned it’s just as essential a part of safety testing as doing an Insulation test on completing a repair or don’t you believe in those either ? In this case it saved me from the possibility of getting a shock & made the customer aware that he has a serious problem with his electrics. Lets be honest it takes seconds & costs nothing to do, if it saves just 1 person from getting a shock then as far as i’m concerned it’s worth the effort. Now before you go on to say that it’s not a Legal requirement for us to do a Loop test, think about it this way: If you do a repair & check the Earth on the appliance, what happens if your customer then gets a shock & takes you to court ? you tell the court that you tested the Earth on the appliance and that was good but as far as your concerned that’s where your responsibility ends & the fact that the socket it was plugged into did’nt have an Earth is’nt your problem, not going to look too good is it ? The other thing is what happens with your PL insurance are they going to pay customer compensation after that comes out ?. Doubt it because they’ll be looking for any way possible to get out of paying out. Look at companies like BG / Hotpoint etc do you think they’d spend a fortune on testers & training their engineers how to use them if they had’nt gone through the Legal / Moral implications with the Lawyers & decided it was essential?.Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
That’s the problem with a lot of testers nowadays, they might be brilliant at what they do but they’re just too big & bulky to be carried around comfortably. Even the Di-log is’nt something you’d want to be carrying in to every call, that’s why I carry the Martindale EZ50 it fits in my toolcase & does all you need for the majority of jobs. I only take the Di-Log in for fixed appliances or when the customer asks me to clear a fault thrown up by the Martindale.
Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
funkyboogy wrote:if you could afford this its a cracking piece of kit
does earth loop insulation continuity volt and can test rcd ..
http://www.test-meter.co.uk/products/17 … on-tester/
just seen these on ebay about £200- 300 range
we use the older version of this ..ex brit gas from ebay picked 3-4 for £100 each ..
Metrel make some nice kit, but for me it’s all just a bit too bulky. Di-Log make some really nice test gear & their Installation tester is a lot lighter to carry around with you, had mine for a few years now & it’s served me well.
Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
For anyone interested, there are a few good used Loop testers showing on the bay at the minute for good prices. Will need to be calibrated first but even then prices are still good.
Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
Now that’s a shame, I never got to read it myself. I did download your article on Insulation testing though & printed it out for my Daughter, she found it much easier to understand than the way her college lecturer explained things. Maybe Ken will be able to find the article on Loop testing & put it up again, i’m sure we have plenty of users who would benefit from it.
Andy
Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
Hi Martin: That’s the Beauty of the EZ it does’nt trip RCD’s, did’nt you write an article for the Forum on basic loop testing a while back ? or was it just Insulation testing ?
AndyRe: Loop / Socket Testing.
philfish wrote:You could always get yourself a martindale ez150 sorry don’t have a link. They’re about 50quid. Just an advanced socket tester that does basic loop test very easy to use not commiting yourself to a great outlay if it flags anything up just tell customer to call in the sparks. You’ve checked for basic saftey, I think as appliance engineers it covers as far as we need to go otherwise gets very complicated and costly.
How you can also get a leads kit so you can do hard wired cookers etcPhil
Hi Phil: The EZ150 is the plug that I use for quick Go / No go testing & I would recommend them to anyone who has’nt got a loop tester especially if they get the add on kit to go with it. With the add on kit you can do a quick test on Harwired appliances as well, the kit adds about £40.00 to the price but it’s ideal for anyone on a tight budget.
Andy
Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
Hi Andy, I wasn’t saying that it was a council house I was saying it would be worse to an extreme if it were. The fact that it is that way in the first instance is severe enough… But if it were a council house then that infers that the culprit would made the mistake was a trained council electrician.
Hi George: Sorry mate but I don’t see why it being a “Trained Council Electrician” would have made any difference. There are many good & well trained council electricians out there(mostly trained elsewhere) as there are Electrical Contractors who do a cracking job & know their stuff but there are equally as many if not more who have’nt got a clue how to do the job properly & don’t care about safety. Give you an example: I went to a property a while back that had just been baught from a council, the day the people moved into the House & went to cook food they smelled a burning plasticy smell from the meter cupboard. As i’ve done work for them in the past they called me to see what the problem was. When I got there & looked in the Consumer unit I could see exactly what the problem was, the RCD had been bypassed with 2 lengths of 2.5mm Singles. There was a job sheet tucked behind the meter board showing that this had been done 3 months earlier by a council sparky as the RCD had packed up, the only reason it had lasted so long was that the house was empty. Luckily for the customer the Council were willing to foot the bill for a replacement RCD & for me to fit it, as far as I know the guy who carried out this little botch up still works for them though.
Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
DrDill wrote:Hi specialist, are you a qualified electrician?
Sent from my iPhone
http://www.kitchenkitsw.comHi: Yes mate I qualified over 30 years ago, long before I re-trained as an Appliance Engineer. Spent many years out on mostly Commercial / Industrial sites both on the tools & as a site manager, given up doing installation work nowadays but still do Fault finding & rectification when the need arises.
Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
robbra wrote:I had a council block of flats in Canning Town,east London rewired in the 80s as not one socket in the block was earthed. Got a shock off the sink and that lead to me testing all sockets in the flat then the neighbours.
Servis never gave testing equipment in those days and I had my own socket tester.
RobHi Rob: Yep it’s surprising how many properties have Bad / No Earth problems & Reversed Polarity sockets, especially Local Authority stuff.
Andy
