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Re: NAC (ADVERT THREAD: IGNORE IT)
They don’t have any work Bryan, so I doubt that you will get an answer to that.
Martin, like I said, very confused, mixed messages, I don’t think that NAC knows what it is.
K.
Re: NAC (ADVERT THREAD: IGNORE IT)
As a comparison ISE pay £60.00 per completed call, and have done since 2006.
Makes NAC rates look pathetic. :rolls:
Re: NAC (ADVERT THREAD: IGNORE IT)
NAC are referral agents not service agents Jim. Totally different beast.
Re: NAC (ADVERT THREAD: IGNORE IT)
It was intended to be a comparison to illustrate the very low rates and earning potential of anyone daft enough to sign up for this venture. 😉
Re: NAC (ADVERT THREAD: IGNORE IT)
Hi all,
Ok, the difference here is that nobody works on credit.
No Engineer we have works, then trusts us to pay 30 days later as they get paid directly from the customer. So in fact, we turn the risk factor around.
We have all the risk as we spend the money to generate the repair customer then rely on Engineers to pay us.
So to be honest, no one has anything to lose by trying or joining National Appliance Care.
I can understand people being dubious but it is very simple. We set you up and pass you booked in calls. You just have to go and do a good job, leave your contact details for the future and collect your fees.
Any and every engineer makes 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} Part mark up as they source and supply spare parts themselves.
If you add the remaining service charge (after our £20) to profit made on parts over a month, not job by job, you’ll find we cannot be beaten.
Job for job, we win.
Compare a Hotpoint WM not draining. Pump replacement. And a Samsung RS21 not cooling in the fridge.
Our fees: £49 + Parts and £65 + Parts. (Plus VAT if registered)
You’ll see that even after £20 to us, we win as you make more money from us that you would for the following as you cannot charge for parts:
Repaircare
0800 RepairAnd for the record, I was head of marketing for both Merloni Elettrodomestici until 2009 and Electrolux EU until 2013.
Kind Regards,
John Cohen
National Appliance CareRe: NAC (ADVERT THREAD: IGNORE IT)
So we’re back to not being a work provider then?
Let me get this right for all the guys…
What you want to do is hoover up as much work as you can from online referrals, work the guys would probably have gotten anyway if it wasn’t for your Adwords campaign.
Then, you want to sell then the call back for £20 a time.
Often this will be work they’ve already said no to as I pointed out elsewhere or, the dross that nobody wants.
How does that even make sense?
And there is a loss, I suspect you just don’t want to discuss it.
The loss is that if the guys support this crazy idea and all the others just like it then they will earn less than they would do by cutting you and services like yours out the loop. If they all don’t support you then you have no business and they get the work direct without you or your fees.
Therefore any repairer that supports this may as well be the turkeys that vote for a second Christmas.
As a marketing guy I’d have thought you’d have worked that out already.
K.
Re: NAC (ADVERT THREAD: IGNORE IT)
Must be using the same PC/Phone as jamieparrie, his last post and the three from NAC are from the exact same IP. :rolls:
Are you sat on his knee, or have you got your hand up his back?
Re: NAC (ADVERT THREAD: IGNORE IT)
I totally appreciate your view.
But you know what, not many repairers know how to advertise properly. Fact.
Many engineers will start a Goooooogle Adwords campaign and they have the following issues:
1. They dont know what they are doing so they spend way to much getting clicks that are not relevant.
2. They have to answer EVERY phone call as they’ve paid anything up to £2 for that click.
3. They have to accept that most calls are ‘Do you call out for free’?
The list can go on for ever.
We get rid of that. We deal with the non starters. We get rid of the free callout calls. And if that means in your eyes we do not deserve a commission. Then so be it.
We are not a Referral service.
We are not a Referral service.
John Cohen
National Appliance CareRe: NAC (ADVERT THREAD: IGNORE IT)
To be honest I would rather spend 30 seconds on the phone telling someone that I don’t call out for free rather than £20
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HDRe: NAC (ADVERT THREAD: IGNORE IT)
Hi Andy,
Like I said, its for some, not others. Luckily we have EX covered!
John Cohen
National Appliance CareRe: NAC (ADVERT THREAD: IGNORE IT)
Oh my goodness, Adrian were you not happy with the jamieparrie account, now you’ve got to pretend to be someone else. Maybe you think this gives you a bit more credibility after you spoiled the last host for your parasitic scheme.
Apart from the IP addresses, style and content it is Adrian Welke that is posting on this account and, frankly I’ve had enough of your crap.
You think you’re going to make yourself a fortune by bleeding others for money and I don’t think that the guys are that stupid to fall for such a pathetic, parasitic and idiotic get rich quick scheme. Only, they don’t get rich at all, the idea is that you do. The trouble is, many of them aren’t as stupid as you seem to think that they are.
Good luck to anyone that signs up to this. I suspect that they’ll need it.
Oh and just by the by, you are a referral service. Same pig, different dress. 😉
K.
Re: NAC (ADVERT THREAD: IGNORE IT)
So, revisiting this after I was doing more interesting things…
Both accounts that have posted from the same IP address have been moderated to the extreme. We will be debating banning them completely for breach of site policies as well as what I personally consider to be both unethical and immoral behaviour.
NAC have a whole 21 repairers according to their map, great stuff. Hardly national cover by any means though which means that the chance of them getting any contract work or, even a whiff of it, anytime soon is pretty much zero.
Even ignoring the whole new business, no track record and all of that malarky.
In a desperate bid to attract more people to the party (it hasn’t altered in a while) rates that might seem attractive are getting banded about. Might be true, might not, who knows.
Meanwhile the contract work carrot gets dangled then a bit of ignoring questions on the subject later, gets ignored and we go back to the “booked calls” fixed rates” stuff we started with.
Now, in the interests of openness and honesty which I do practice as far as is humanly possible, I have stated to the mods that I think that this was merely yet another ruse to try to get some more people to sign up to this in the vain hope that one day, maybe, they’d get some decent contract work from it.
Based on what I can see, that is not going to happen anytime soon. But, more likely, never.
Therefore my take on all of this to date is that it’s just this company or one person in it posting under two usernames in an attempt at self-promotion of the service.
The hard evidence in the IP logs backs this conclusion up on investigation.
That means that both accounts, irrespective of how you want to look at it, are in breach of site policy and, by rights, should both be banned.
That’s just technically.
Based on the deceit that I smell, were it just an arbitrary decision on my own, I’d probably ban them anyway for the attempt to deceive repairers into signing up for this. That sort of thing doesn’t sit well with me.
All that said I’d like you all to think about something, let’s say a fictional scenario if you will…
A call handling service, referral service or whatever of that ilk in whatever dress it happens to be wearing this week signs you up and you think, great I get more work.
It is not so. I will explain.
What the company does is gets engineers or services in a particular area or areas then actively targets the advertising in that geographic location. They hoover up all the work from whatever source they happen to be using, whether that happens to be Google, other online advertising, traditional media or whatever and then sells it back to you at a premium.
You see, they’re not completely stupid even if I may question that from time to time but they think you are. They need you more than you need them, they need a repairer in the postal areas to target advertising so, it’s chicken and egg. They won’t advertise until they have a willing repairer (or, muppet some may say) in the region to pass the work to. Think about it, why spend money advertising where they cannot deliver the service?
For a time after you sign on, you’re a happy teddy, you’re getting all this “extra” work. Not costing you anything you think and it’s work you didn’t think you’d get otherwise.
Then, all of a sudden, one day you wake up and think to yourself, “hold the phone, why am I getting no direct chargeable work through adverts and whatnot?” You suddenly realise that the work you once had has dried up or depleted to a noticeable level.
Then you run about trying to fix the problem, you advertise more at random, try to do whatever while worrying about how you’re going to pay for diesel, the mortgage, the shopping…
Only at that point, if you haven’t taken some heed of this very stark warning, will you come to realise what just happened to you.
But, if you don’t believe me, you go right on ahead, ignore the advice and possibly commit financial suicide. It’s your business not mine and it is not my place to tell you what to do or not do, you’re all big enough and smart enough to work it out for yourselves beyond this point.
K.
Re: NAC (ADVERT THREAD: IGNORE IT)
I had a big company in my area did the same advertised in the area then phoned me if I wanted the job.
This happened a few times and I declined every time.
I went to three jobs in a short time and each one had paid upfront for a visit and been let down by this company and were waiting for a refund £90 upfront.
I did not think each customer had much hope of getting a refund and had contacted there credit card company.
All three jobs were near Christmas and the customers found me online and the other company no longer advertise online under the same name.
Bob
Re: NAC (ADVERT THREAD: IGNORE IT)
kwatt wrote:Both accounts that have posted from the same IP address have been moderated to the extreme. We will be debating banning them completely for breach of site policies as well as what I personally consider to be both unethical and immoral behaviour.
Impossible. If you can track IP Addresses then you would have seen that I would have been at various locations while travelling through Birmingham. I had the delight of a very long, delayed and boring train journey yesterday afternoon so I used that opportunity to create an account to reply to various questions asked of National Appliance Care.
kwatt wrote:NAC have a whole 21 repairers according to their map, great stuff. Hardly national cover by any means though which means that the chance of them getting any contract work or, even a whiff of it, anytime soon is pretty much zero.
Wrong. If you re-visit the published area map, you’ll see by the colour codes that in most areas, NAC has 3 levels of cover, in others 2 and some just 1 for the moment. As you know, NAC is a new concept and as we enter 2014, we will be employing a National Network Manager to grow and manage the NAC Network. I think the saying ‘Rome wasn’t built in a day’ is apt for this statement.
kwatt wrote:In a desperate bid to attract more people to the party (it hasn’t altered in a while) rates that might seem attractive are getting banded about. Might be true, might not, who knows.
Rates quoted are: £49, £55, £65 & £75 + Parts (+ VAT if registered). This is a fact and any engineer that reads this thread that actually works with us can confirm that. When you take these rates in to account with profit on spare parts, over the course of a week or a month, the work from NAC is very lucrative compared to the same jobs offered by contract companies. A comparison has been made above to ISE paying £60 Per completed call, I’m assuming that it’s £50+ VAT so based on that, take an ISE Dishwasher needing a circulation motor. NAC would quote £55+ VAT (If registered) + Parts. Parts would be supplied by the engineer and he would make 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} part mark up therefore equating to more income from NAC than ISE for the same job. As for the others, I believe it’s about £45 Average for a contract repair and that gets reduced when BER? Again, compare jobs & prices and we will come out on top every time.
kwatt wrote:Meanwhile the contract work carrot gets dangled then a bit of ignoring questions on the subject later, gets ignored and we go back to the “booked calls” fixed rates” stuff we started with.
I am not at liberty to discuss with who NAC are talking to with future visions and plans. Currently, there is no alternative to the main 2 work providers and companies do not have a ‘reserve’ or 2nd Tier option to place their work if needed. For example, if a repair goes to an engineer who cannot get out for 5 Days, it’s basically tough on the customer. Ok, in most cases, people scramble about to get another engineer but as everyone will know, this doesn’t always happen so the customer is forced to wait. We are aiming to be in a position where we can offer next day at worst to problem jobs, and NAC will even be in a position to pay the engineer the agreed rate at the point of job acceptance. Now, please tell me of another WP that can offer this?
kwatt wrote:Now, in the interests of openness and honesty which I do practice as far as is humanly possible
Restricting an account to freely post is not being ‘Open’. I am not here to advertise. I am here to reply to and engage with people that might have questions for NAC as to date, there has just been slating after slating with no representation from NAC, which in my book, is not very open, fair or a true 2 way thread.
kwatt wrote:Therefore my take on all of this to date is that it’s just this company or one person in it posting under two usernames in an attempt at self-promotion of the service.
Completely wrong and I invite you to contact me directly to discuss this point. My email address is in a previous post.
kwatt wrote:All that said I’d like you all to think about something, let’s say a fictional scenario if you will…
A call handling service, referral service or whatever of that ilk in whatever dress it happens to be wearing this week signs you up and you think, great I get more work.
It is not so. I will explain.
What the company does is gets engineers or services in a particular area or areas then actively targets the advertising in that geographic location. They hoover up all the work from whatever source they happen to be using, whether that happens to be Google, other online advertising, traditional media or whatever and then sells it back to you at a premium.
Wrong. It is impossible to ‘Hoover up’ all the work. Any marketing expert will know and confirm that in any industry, advertising will not capture 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of everyone and anyone who thinks so should have a real think about it. I am happy to confirm that if we book 1 job in an area, then I would be pretty happy to bet that NAC have spoken to at least 5 People that haven’t booked due to cost. That in itself means we are only capturing a small portion of the chargeable market, leaving lots there for anyone else who advertises to capture.
kwatt wrote:You see, they’re not completely stupid even if I may question that from time to time but they think you are. They need you more than you need them, they need a repairer in the postal areas to target advertising so, it’s chicken and egg. They won’t advertise until they have a willing repairer (or, muppet some may say) in the region to pass the work to. Think about it, why spend money advertising where they cannot deliver the service?
This goes without saying. In exactly the same way as any other provider, that offer lesser rates and benefits. I’ll put it like this, people will queue up to take a few jobs per week from other companies at rates as low as £32 that get paid 30 Days after the repair (If you’re lucky in some instances)! So, I understand that you might live in an ideal world in your head but the reality of it is that other companies lower the value of labour. Fact. We pick that value back up and benefit from booking jobs that are aware of charges etc.
kwatt wrote:For a time after you sign on, you’re a happy teddy, you’re getting all this “extra” work. Not costing you anything you think and it’s work you didn’t think you’d get otherwise.
Then, all of a sudden, one day you wake up and think to yourself, “hold the phone, why am I getting no direct chargeable work through adverts and whatnot?” You suddenly realise that the work you once had has dried up or depleted to a noticeable level.
I can actually confirm that our engineers, some have been with us since March are happy with all the aspects of NAC. I can also confirm that not one engineer has ever left us after joining. So these facts contradict your theory and I’ll believe the facts.
kwatt wrote:But, if you don’t believe me, you go right on ahead, ignore the advice and possibly commit financial suicide. It’s your business not mine and it is not my place to tell you what to do or not do, you’re all big enough and smart enough to work it out for yourselves beyond this point.
Could you please expand on the point re: Financial Suiside? I can’t understand that at all.
Many Thanks,
John Cohen
Re: NAC (ADVERT THREAD: IGNORE IT)
Whatever.
We caught you, deal with it.
We trace routed the IP address, we KNOW that the accounts have posted from the same location, there is absolutely no doubt about it.
Only problem for you is that one is supposed to be in Penrath in Wales, the other in Wakefield hung off a Leeds node and, they both trace back to the Leeds node, so my opinion is that you are lying.
On the way this “business” works I can take a guess as to why it’s been done this way, perhaps because you can’t get a merchant account or any spares accounts so, there’s no other option. That wouldn’t come as a surprise at all given who’s involved and the unpaid debts I am aware of that remain. If I choose believe the rumours, I doubt you’ll have a spares account from some anytime this side of eternity.
The method employed also absolves you of any legal responsibility if it goes wrong as, you’re not the retailer merely a referral agent in the middle creaming a commission therefore, legally, I suspect that you are indeed just another referral agent. Dress it up how you like, it is what it is.
However, that makes all the repairers legally responsible, not you.
So you shove all the cost, all the hassle and all the legal responsibility onto the repairers and get paid for the privilege. Great plan, if you can find enough morons to take you up on that. Good luck after recent events with all the others of your ilk.
I will not be contacting you directly at all. If you have anything to say to me you can do so publicly and, based on previous threats and whatnot from Mr Welke there, including physical harm, legal actions among other abusive tirades I cannot see that position altering anytime soon.
All the rest, IMO, you’re just trying to promote and justify a business module which is, frankly, stupid and pointless.
That’s about the best I can say here. My own personal view is that this is a scam in much the same way as GoLocal or whatever.
After all of that the best you can come up with is, we’re going to do this or that and we can’t talk about it…. yeah, right. We’ve never heard that sort of nonsense before. :rolls:
K.
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